Ummm. I would want to be the contractor and go to court on this situation as you describe it.

I'd say the contractor was negligent by failing to identify that the boiler was plugged up with soot, and is responsible for the damage to your house caused by the sooting.

Did you agree to an hourly rate or a flat fee for the cleaning and repairs that were done --- probably not.

If you didn't agree to a fee, then the contractor is only entitled to charge you a reasonable sum for the parts and labor they sold you. That's the legal idea of "quantum merruit" (if I'm spelling it correctly). It's a legal principle that says you should expect to pay for something even if no price has been specified for it if you ask for help from a tradesman.

But what price should be paid where no price has been agreed to? Courts usually look to what is a reasonable charge in assigning a cost.

So I'd start negotiating with the contractor. It wouldn't be unusual to need to have the whole house cleaned and repainted by professionals when soot escapes into the house.

Then you could ask about the actual cost of the sealing materials used by the repairman. How much was used and what was the actual cost of the materials used? It might be trivial. I'd keep the bottle of sealant and investigate the cost of buying it yourself.

I don't think they earned the original $100 diagnostic fee since they didn't detect the repairs needed to the sooted boiler, only the leak.

You might call the contractor and ask them what their hourly rate for repairs would be. Just guessing, but I'd figure $100/hour based on their $100 diagnostic fee.

So I'd figure you owe them $100/hour for the time they spent repairing the boiler plus say, double cost of a bottle of the sealant.

Deduct from that the cost of repairing the soot damage. (Cleaning and repainting the entire house might be a good negotiating posture from which to begin).

If the contractor is smart, he'll write off the bill as something he prefers to bury rather than talk about. He would have to be really stupid to want to take the issue to court.

So how much soot damage WAS done to the house? I wouldn't do any cleaning until after you resolve the issue.

Seattle Pioneer

I don't see any connection between a blocked boiler and a water leak, but, as stated above, the company is entitled to at least the first service call charge.

I live in a slab ranch so it's not like the boiler is in the basement. Soot damage? It's in a utility room off the family room. It's fairly bad in the local area to the boiler but not too bad in the rest of the house. It does get everywhere though.

My insurance agent is quoting me 3K. It all happened so fast that at the time of my meeting with the insurance company I didn't really discuss how it might be the contractors fault. I'm definitely no boiler expert but unfortunately (or actually not) I've become a lot more knowledgeable in the past week.

I called the company once and complained. They sent the bill in writing. Any advice on how I should move forward?

Thanks

I would take pictures of this mess and document everything that was done. Then send them a check for $100 and put the ball in their court. It seems to me the HVAC co. was covering a mistake and trying to back you into a corner on this due to incompetence.

The technician didn't cause the boiler to spew out soot. That could have been caused by any of several reasons, most likely lack of maintenance. An improper air setting can cause a blocked boiler quickly, but the tech never touched the air setting according to the poster.

The poster should pay for the initial service call.

A blocked boiler and a leak are not the tech's fault and I don't see how they can be anything but two separate issues.

I do think that they are two different issues. But my problem is that the first tech should have done some cleaning and put in sealant if he thought it was appropriate to stop the mess. He could have done something to prop up the existing boiler but discouraged me from doing anything other than talking to their sales crew for a new boiler. I don't know much about these things but after leaving the side access panel off and taking off he was pretty negligent to what might happen. He even failed to see the missing gasket. The time between tech calls was about 28 hours. If I knew the boiler would take a turn for the worse in that time I would have done something.

When I talked to the sales person and she agreed to send the second tech I assumed that was to do something the other tech failed to. Of course in the meantime I got soot in my house.

Poorly handled on my part as well but when you hire someone you assume competence and that they won't leave you hanging in an effort to make the quick sale.

My opinion is not changed. The tech saw the leak, and if he determined that the leak was caused by rust-through, he made the correct determination. If the leak was caused by a bad gasket, he should have recommended that the gasket be replaced.

However, he was called out to check a leak and he did his job. It was not his responsibility to check other problems that you didn't ask about. He wasn't there for maintenance.

If he had adjusted the air setting, you would have cause to blame him for sooting.

A boiler in good working order should never need sealer in it's lifetime. Sealer also helps to block up the air vent. If you need sealant for a rusted boiler, it's on its last legs. I do know that many boilers have patch plates available to weld over leaks in the domestic coil area.

As you explained things, the tech did the right thing and his company should be paid.

I see you're point I'm just thinking that the cost $688 is too much. $289 to add sealant? Based on the manufacturer directions it seems like a simple job. He spent the bulk of the time cleaning the boiler and about 5 minutes adding the sealant. Can't see that it warrants being the single most expensive item on the bill.

The gasket has nothing to do with the water. Perhaps I'm using the wrong term. What I'm referring to as the gasket is the insulation around the cleanout plate. This was corroded and half missing from the first panel opening. I assume if you leave the boiler exposed (I could see the flame) then this insulation (gasket) is not blocking the soot from expelling from the burn process. Something one of my bidders (for replacement) identified as soon as he took off the access panel but two techs from the company in question did not.

Thanks for the help

I have a little different story about HVAC service calls but the same question about being ripped off. My 18 year old carrier furnace blower motor (electric heat pump) stopped working and the service company came out and replaced the capicitor -- $100 for the service call and $180 for the capacitor. Now, in looking at the similarly rated capacitors on the internet, it seems like they run at most about $20 (oval 5mfd 440).

I don't mind a markup or even paying for the service call -- but an 800 percent markup on the capacitor that took 15 minutes to diagnose and replace?! Blower stopped working the next day and now they are telling me it's the furnace blower motor and are going to give me a deal on a new one at almost $500. It looks like I can find the same (fasco) for not much over $100 from a parts supplier. Of course, the HVAC company will gladly apply all my charges towards a whole new system and it only took 2 hours on a Saturday for the salesman to call me -- alarm bells really going off now LOL!

Other than labor on what appears to be a 45 minute job -- am I missing something or are these prices just plain ludicrous and I should be suspicious? btw, this a national hvac service company.

ggaarryy

Refer to my OP!!!

Yes, the prices are ridiculous. I would find another company and I would say something to your current company. Many parts are things you would find at Grainger.

As to jportoil, I would certainly challange the sealant price.

If more people would do this there would probably be an awful lot less postings in here about questionable parts replaced. Whenever it is stated that a part needs to be replaced don't be afraid to ask how much the repair will cost. If he doesn't know the exact price ask him for a ballpark. Even if he has to call someone in the office this is part of his job. If they can't tell you send that company packing. Ater he quotes the cost explain that you or someone else representing you will have to be present and you want the part that is being replaced put into your hand immediately after it is removed. You have a legal right to do this and you also have a right to have this part checked out by a third party to see if it is infact no good. If more people did it you probably wouldn't hear about these 500 dollar capacitor changes and the technicians would be awful leary of changing parts on nothing more then just a guess. You really don't have to pay for parts you don't need as long as you know how to deal with the companies.

>>

Ummm. That should have read I* would NOT want to be the contractor and go to court....

>>

The repairman was there to diagnose the problems with the boiler. He found a water leak, but failed to check for other problems which caused $3,000 in damages almost right away. That is negligence.

Personally, I think the contractor owes YOU!

Seattle Pioneer

well this experience gives new meaning to the word 'caveat emptor'!!!

I can get the capacitor for $10 and the motor for $120. Figuring I paid the $100 service call to buy their expertise to diagnose the problem, $700 for $130 in parts (for a 45 minute job)is almost criminal (or should be)!!! Biggest problem is that it is so hard to find someone to sell parts if you aren't a contractor but I finally found a place.

I obviously mistakenly assumed that a nation-wide service company would be less likely to be a 'rip-off' place. It's almost like they prey on people because most times the equipment failure is something you can't wait to replace and you don't have time to 'shop around'.

good luck all and yes be suspicious, even from so called reputable firms is the lesson to be learned.

I asked a guy today about the sealant that his national company used. It's regular old auto radiator sealer, meant as a stop-gap measure. It tends to block up the air vent.

The comment about taking a guy to court for not finding the sooted up boiler, when he was specifically called out to check a leak and was not doing any other maintenance isn't going anywhere in PA.

My error: It boiler sealant, not car sealant.

Only a repairman who is a moron is going to believe the customer's bright ideas about what is wrong with equipment and fail to check to be sure that the equipment as a whole is working safely and properly.

One of the major hazards of gas fired equipment is furnaces/boilers that are dirty, maiking carbon monoxide and soot and not venting properly, which means that the combustion gasses containing CO are probably venting into the dwelling space.

I have no doubt that Philadelphia lawyers would know what to do with claims by repairmen that they needn't check to be sure equipment they leave operating is operating safely.

Seattle Pioneer

Are you sleepless in Seattle or California dreamin' ??