Hiya Andre. Is that your real name...or a pen name ;-)

Anyhoo...Forced-air oil is great if you into "I want it now" heat. It'll heat a cold home up fast. My programmable thermostat shuts it off during work hours and again at night. Yet it will recover temperature in short order, so I've a nice toasty home when I wake up or return from work. Nothin' like a warm house when it's cooold outside.

Some people forced air "drafty". I oversized the registers to diffuse the airflow, so that's not much of an issue with me. Maybe when I get older...

However, there are times when I want only to "get the chill" out of the house. These are days when the outside temps are in the 50's. Sure, my oil furnace will bring up the temp with ease. Yet once it reaches my comfort level, it short-cycles for only a few minutes at a time. That can't be very efficient.

Here's an idea...how about an oil furnace heat pump combo? This will give you fast heat on cold days, as well as the high temp rise of oil that you like. You'll get a heat pump's better efficiency on those in-between days, as well. Of course, you'll get AC in the summer.

Installing a heat pump won't cost too much more than a straight AC, relatively speaking. Depending on your climate, the advantages of an oil/HP combo may be worth it to you. I'm actually considering adding a heat pump/AC to my oil furnace. That way, I'll get the best of both worlds - and central AC to boot.

Good luck.

Marco

andre

Placing the equipment cost aside for the moment, a homeowner changing over to oil heat will require a storage tank and assume all the environmental issues/concerns that go along with home heating oil. And that does not even take into consideration its cost( and future cost) as well as oil is not a clean burning fuel-it is dirty. As suggested in previous thread, get your electric rate, propane cost/gallon, and residential oil/gallon. Then plug the numbers into the fuel calculator. This will help you make an informed decision.

IMO

Here is a link that might be useful: Fuel Comparison Calculator

Oil, dirty? Oil burners have not been producing smoke for quite awhile. They run efficiently at zero smoke. Let's keep the facts straight.

Fuel oil DOES NOT burn dirty when set up properly and properly maintained. It is also a safer fuel as it is stored in a liquid state that is not under pressure and is not volitile.

Fuel oil DOES NOT burn dirty "when set up properly and properly maintained". (from blacknumber1)

Perhaps I should have said that res heating oil does not burn as clean as nat gas, propane, and of course electric heat. The maintenance can be more frequent than other types of heating systems. It is true that oil is safer than nat gas or propane. There are trade-offs in all heating systems.

PROS AND CONS OF HEATING FUELS

FUEL OIL
Pros:
Non-explosive
Less likely to produce carbon monoxide
Independent suppliers
No monthly service fees
Cons:
Must be stored on premises
Annual burner maintenance recommended
85% maximum efficiency
High temperature exhaust
Potential ground/water contaminant

NATURAL GAS
Pros:
Does not need to be stored on premises
95% maximum efficiency
Low temperature exhaust
Useful in other household applications (i.e. kitchen stove, clothes drier, etc.)
Cons:
Potentially explosive
Produces Carbon monoxide
Monthly service fees, regardless of usage

HEAT PUMP
Pros:
No combustion or chimney
Produces air conditioning as well as heat
More efficient use of electricity
Cons:
System distributes lower air temperature
Uses electric resistive heat as a backup
Evolving technology causes premature obsolescence

ELECTRIC (RESISTIVE)
Pros:
No combustion or chimney
No duct or pipe distribution system needed
Each room individually controlled
Least expensive design/installation
Cons:
Inefficient use of electricity
Larger electrical service required

info provided from www.warmair.com

All equipment should be serviced every year, its just that oil equipment really needs to be serviced annually to be at it's best performance. Oil furnaces are more durable and will last longer than most new gas furnaces. I would not recommend an air-source heat pump as a primary means of heating unless they had very mild winters. The biggest advantage of gas/propane is that other appliances can use it, although oil water heaters are available. Personally I think the best way to heat a large home in a very cold climate is with solid-fuel burning equipment.

Hey blacknumber1, in today's paper the headline of the business section was that Michigan has the worst employment situation in the country.

Yes it does, frankly it bites here, I am lucky to have a job doing anything.

Daft_punk...yes its my 'pen name'...another Odd Couple fan perhaps...if so we need to petition Time Life to release Season II on DVD!

I agree on everything said about oil here. In my old home I had oil. What I am most curious about is this heatpump / oil furnace combo thing and what it costs.

As far as the fuel pump calculator it shows electric being waaaaaay cheaper than propane in Eastern PA. So much cheaper I start to question how the calculator works. It also does not appear to ask ask how much I consume so I question a bit how the thing calculates. Anyway, I am guessing that above 30 degrees, electric heat pumps are the cheapest to run. It appears that below 30 degrees propane and/or oil become a cheaper method. Would we all agree on that?

I think we all agree that oil or propane create warmer heat; so to speak.

So I am back where I started. What does this heatpump / oil furnace beastie cost? Might a propane insert in fireplace be a better match with the heat pump. It would heat the whole first floor. I could run it when the temp is below 30 degrees. I get a nice toasty warm family room, a nice fire etc ect but a $3000 install bill and need to hope that the propane cost offsets the electric costs when the temp is below 30 outside.

Heat is measured in BTUH. All fuels produce a certain amount of heat per unit.

What you are searching for is the comfort of the heat provided. That is broken down into warm air or radiant, with radiant being much more comfortable than warm air. The fuel used to create the warm air or radiant heat doesn't enter into the picture as far a comfort is concerned.

Some high-efficiency single-speed gas furnaces do not have a very high supply temperature and the amount of air they move can make homes feel cool and drafty. Theyre also noisier. Oil does not have these problems, supply temps are usually over 120 degrees.

"It appears that below 30 degrees propane and/or oil become a cheaper method. Would we all agree on that?"

I would not agree with that without knowing your utility costs. It is true that the supply air temp from oil and nat gas/propane furnaces is higher than electric heat pump operating in normal mode (without strip heat). But when a heat pump's aux heat (heat strips) kicks in on those cold days, then the heat pump's supply temps are equal to today's high eff condensing gas furnaces but probably not as high as an oil furnace supply temp. As far as a propane fireplace insert, yes this will provide your fam room a nice ambiance and function as supplemental heat but at a high cost. One additional feature of the propane insert is it will function if you lose electric power-at least you will not freeze. Heating efficiencies of these inserts vary and you will definitely want to install a carbon monoxide monitor.

I ran some numbers this morning in my Southeast area using the following costs and efficiencies after checking electric, propane, nat gas, and fuel oil costs. The COP used for the heat pump was probably a little low.

Electric heat pump $.09/COP 2.5
Res fuel oil $2.15/gal/84% eff
Propane $2.35/gal/92% eff
Nat Gas $.015/cuft/92% eff

Cost per 100,000 BTUs of usable heat

Electric baseboard: $2.37
Heat pump: $1.05
Oil: $1.86
Propane: $2.79
Natural gas: $1.58

From the warmair.com fuel comparison calculatorÂ..

Certainly fuel/energy prices vary from state to state.

A heat pump/furnace system is still probably the best bet fhe heat pump should be sized to match the cooling load of the house or to handle the homes heating load at an outside temp of 35 degrees, they'd be about the same.

tigerdunes, the cost of electric in our area is 9 cents per kwh, which includes taxes. However, it will soon be a minimum of 25% higher.

baymee,

This is a real quandry for the homeowner in analyzing types of HVAC systems. Why? Because you have to look into the future and figure out what types of heating fuels will remain reasonably stable relative to others. I seriously doubt that nat gas, residential fuel oil, or propane will be stable compared to electric. That is my bet. You can hedge your bet with dual fuel systems but keep in mind there is a wide gap between electric and the fossil fuels even with a 25% price increase.

My opinion.

Yes, and I already did the numbers. It's cheaper for me to produce domestic hot water with my oil boiler than it is to produce it with electric. This came right from PPL; the same utility the poster uses.

Has deregulation arrived yet in your state? Some PA utilities have raised their rates by 75% already. My bill is different every month, partially because of the fuel costs of the utility being passed onto me. If oil goes up, electric goes up, et al.

I jumped off the oil train back in January, when I hooked up a wood boiler, in conjunction with my oil boiler, to my house baseboard and domestic water. I haven't used any oil since then.

But, I can say this as a fact. My oil boiler was used exclusively to produce domestic hot water for the last 30 years. I never used it for heat. My oil usage, for a family of 5, was 230 gallons of oil, each and every year for 30 years. So, do the numbers and see how it pans out.

Hello TD,
This is one topic we agree on. Texas deregulated electric, and it became final this January? The price of energy has soared since Katernia. Although Texas did not suffer in property damage, it has been hurt with energy costs. From reading the articles about the primary electricity producer,(TXU) the continued high prices allowed a takeover of the company last week. The other providers that buy from TXU have a wide spread on prices. When the proposed revised regulation either passes or fails to pass, the prices will change again. We are experiences very high electricity, but the natural gas is worse. This is something that was relative stable until 1999. Since then it has soared. I live in a gas producing state and I pay more than people a thousand miles away pay for natural gas. Our PUC is somewhat controlled by the wrong political people. Until we fire or impeach the individuals responsible, we seem to pay for other states rejections to increased utility costs.

Utilities are fluctuating, but gas seems worse than electric.

Bob, I read your comment last night, scratched my head, and figured I was just tired and went straight to bed.

Now, I'm having coffee and scratching my head again trying to figure out what you said.

I know that electric rates are regional. In the Northeast, oil is cheaper. In the Northwest, electric is cheaper. On an annual basis in PA, the cost of all fuels is very close, except for propane which is out of sight.

TD feels that electric rates are stable. Tell that to the people in the central part of the state that just got a 75% increase in price out of nowhere.

It doesn't matter to me what type of fuel people use. Our own anthracite coal is a bargain at half the annual cost of oil. But I know too many people who say that PA is marginal when it comes to heat pumps and they aren't cheap to run here.

When adding an AC, the design of some Oil furnaces can result in acutely low airflow problems.

In addition, many Lowboy furnaces have the blower off to the side, which creates backpressure turbulence before it ever gets to the top of the huge heat exchanger, which fills the entire center of the furnace up to near the top.

Then, many installers' put the A-Coil directly on top of the furnace, when it should be 4 to 6 inches above it.
That causes a restriction & a lot more backpressure turbulence with the loss of velocity pressure.

When the A-Coil is not mounted well above the Oil furnace a belt-drive 1/4-HP blower motor won't provide enough airflow for a mere 1.5-Ton AC. (It needs a 1/3-HP motor.)

View the blowerÂs curve charted graph from the linked page; click on each image to enlarge it. udarrell _ 2007

Here is a link that might be useful: udarrell.com

I'm originally from the Seattle area and it does seem that our electric bills are way less expensive than out here in NH. It's a more doable form of heat when most of your winter lows are 40 degrees.
In response to the guy who mentioned that oil gives off almost no carbon monoxide - I don't get it. People, your heating your house (mine included) with diesel fuel. I'm curious if anyone knows about lead pollutants in diesel fuel (oil). Is the heating oil identical (besides the red dye) to auto diesel? If so I can't see anything else even coming close to polluting the environment as much as diesel.