I think the only time you'd use hydro air is when you already have a boiler, either pre-existing or for radiant floor heat in some areas. There may be occasional designs where remote air handlers would work better than ducting. Forced air will probably be half the price of a boiler and hydro air handlers. (it was when we considered it.

The house currently is just a frame and the roofing is just going on today. The insulation that will go in is to be per code using is as follows: R-19 Kraft-faced on the exterior walls, the basement wood framed walls and garage walls and ceilings - interestingly, the master bath is above part of the garage; R30 in the ceilings, overhangs and cathedral ceilings.

I agree that LP is the not a great way to heat, but unfortunately that is the only available form available where we are building. It is a medium sized sub development.

I have been leaning towards the forced air with the humidification - I am unsure of the RH% in the home, but its not that good in the current home I am in and its only about 7 years old.

What is the issue with the air handler for the top floor in the attic? I thought it would be better since there is less ductwork that has to be used to supply that floor and less loss of heat in the winter and cool air in the summer. My concern, if I decide to use a humidifier as part of the system, is whether there is any way to humidify without placing a humidifier in the attic to limit the risk of leaking and ruining my ceiling.

As for the price of propane, the place we will likely get the LP from is selling it for $3.309/gallon today.

Have you an idea what your neighbors pay for heat?

Is your attic insulated? Since it likely isn't, the air handler is exposed to the elements so is all the duct work. When the ducts leak air, that heat is lost. It then lowers the pressure in the house, sucking in outside air. That dramatically lowers the RH in the house. If you foam the roofline of the attic, you eliminate these problems but that is usually a $5-$10k proposition.

I don't know how much you have control of the build but code insulation combined with LP in New York is certainly not ideal.

Building a code house when you have NG at least doesn't break the bank. But when you pay roughly 4x the amount per btu, it becomes financially wise to up the insulation. How much? - how about 4 times since that is the price difference. Now insulation doesn't really scale that way for a variety of reasons. But code is written to be a bare minimum and cost effective in the short term. It wasn't written for using LP to heat. It also wasn't written when interest rates were so low.

I have r-13 in NC - code. I also have NG so it isn't a big deal. If I was building with no NG, I would start with 2 times code levels of insulation. This takes some skill and planning - too late for you unfortunately. But - you can do okay with rigid foam sheathing outside the framing.

So - you have a 2x6 framed house with fiberglass in between the framing. You can add 1 or 2 inches of rigid foam to the outside (really should do 2). You should have a blower door test done and get your ACH down to 1.5. These things are cost effective in less than 10 years (maybe 5).

My observation from a distance is that NY is way behind the rest of the country in these matters. I think the average housing stock in NY is so bad (because of age) that the whole concept gets neglected. People are just used to spending thousands to heat their houses and compared to property taxes, it isn't bad. But it can be fixed...

And you have to consider that the price of LP could easily double in the next decade.

David,

I agree with you about the attic and insulation. I have been told that he will be insulating the attic "per code". However, the builder likes to go a little above code when it comes to these things because he agrees that the coding system in NY is behind the rest of the country.

Since my last post, I also spoke with the HVAC guy and he assured me that the builder does a good job with insulation in the attic so as to accommodate using the handler in the attic is not an issue...so that reassured me, but I will inquire about the attic foaming as well when I meet with the builder again this evening.

The only thing that the HVAC guy recommended was to stay away from the Honeywell Truesteam and to install a different system with a humidistat.

If you don't mind, what are your thoughts in 92% efficiency in both upstairs unit and downstairs unit? The builder is offering as his base, 92% downstairs and 80% upstairs. Why would it not be a good idea to do 92% in both areas? He says that 92% upstairs will reduce the %RH even more.

I am not an expert at this so I ask those who are in the know of this stuff. Thanks for all your help in this!!!

Keep in mind the code is the minimum that is allowed.

You are free to put in more insulation.

Preventing infiltration and leakage is more important then all the insulation you have though

My house is a similar size in Syracuse, so we have more heating days than you. But, I would also be concerned about putting an HVAC unit in the attic. That will be outside the insulated envelope of your home, subjecting the unit to the cold and heat that's outside. The unit might be ok with that, but pulling air out of the house into the uninsulated/unconditioned attic, then heating/cooling it, and pushing it back into the conditioned portion of the house is going to tend to give you conditioned air that is closer to the outside temp than what you are looking for. Plus leaks in the ducts will send your expensive conditioned air into the attic. At least leaky ducts in the basement leak the conditioned the air in the house.

I agree with the poster who suggests that you do as much insulation as you reasonable can. Not just for the money savings but also for the comfort of your home. We have spray foam in our 2x6 walls and it's great. I can sit by the window in a T-shirt with the cold wind whipping and be comfortable.

The other thing I did that I am happy with is during construction I would come into the house on the weekend and spayfoam (the cans you buy at home depot) all the holes and seams that the contractors did a poor job filling - and there were a lot of them. I probably used dozens of cans. And that was on top of what the builder did.

Good luck!

As a general rule, when they say attic insulation, they are referring to the attic floor. This has nothing to do with what the air handler and ducts experience as far as ambient temperature.

Maybe maybe there is something different they are referring to. The only common way to condition an attic is by foaming the rafters. But everything is regional and I certainly don't know what they do in NY.

Hello, I'm not sure if this thread is still open, but I'm looking at the exact same situation as the original poster, so I'm wondering what you decided to do and how it worked out for you?

Whether the poster is in climate zone 4 or 5 in the Lower Hudson Valley, it not only gets cold in the winter but can be very hot in the summer. Putting an air handler in an unconditioned attic, which sounds like what was planned, is an inefficient, uneconomic system.

The OP's concern about installing humidifiers is misplaced and out-of-date. The mandated 3 air changes an hour at a pressure difference of 50 pascals, (3ach50) means that in most homes with a family, the moisture from cooking, running water and just breathing and perspiring creates all the moisture you'll need.

Furnace-connected humidifiers were only necessary in the bad old days where homes were regularly 12-25 ach50. But I guess old "wisdom" dies hard!

I am not up on the science but my personal experience is consistent with what Worthy says about humidifiers. I had them in my first three homes that were relatively drafty (not tightly enclosed) and had inefficient furnaces. My current house is very tight (spray foam) and has an efficient furnace and we have never needed a humidifier. This house is so tight that we have an air exchanger to move old air out and bring fresh air in. I think that's the way to go.

From the research I've done everything about low humidity in a house leads to the infiltration of outside air. Every home I've lived in was old and drafty, and regardless of a heat source they've been pretty dry in the winter. So a tight envelope solves one of my concerns, but still leaves me with a heat source question about hydro air with a tank-less water heater as a heat source, as described by the OP. My contractor suggested this after I told him about my plans for heat; a hybrid (or dual fuel) heat pump with a 2 stage propane back-up furnace, for the really cold temps. Unfortunately we're planning on putting one in the attic, so I'll have to address those concerns beforehand, but I really need to choose something asap.

Any opinions?

The advantages of a hydro-air system are: it is easier to zone the distribution system; fewer ducts are needed; it is easier and more efficient to reach upper floors and wings; it can also serve radiant floor and baseboard systems; it has a lower temperature rise through the unit increasing comfort and reducing drying; it can run automatically at slower more efficient fan speeds further increasing comfort and reducing noise; it can use more efficient condensing gas-fired boilers; and the boiler can serve as a tankless water heater.

In New England, for those willing to pay more up front and plan to live in the house long enough to appreciate the energy savings, this is the system of choice. It can be considerably cheaper for major renovations where zoning and ductwork are difficult and costly to install or for large homes with open plans.

Since these are the kinds of projects I design, I haven't seen a forced-air furnace installed since the 70's.

As for attics, IMO the space has too great a future value to not include it in the conditioned space of the house.

Agreed (as for the attics). Our plan is to finish it down the road, but budgeting is tight right now. We have an open floor plan on the 1st floor, that we're looking to heat with a basement unit. The open floor plan makes it hard to run ducts to the 2nd floor, hence the attic location. My contractor says just 1 triangle tube tank-less water heater in the basement will do both hydro air units. We're heating with propane, since oil was our only other option.