carrier performace or carrier infinity

14 years ago

I had several quotes and the one company said I should put the infinity 19 seer heat pump installed. He said it is like a smaller car better milage. then on the other hand another company said a performance 16 seer will work better

because my return ducts are small and the infinity would create problems. It is not the money it is the right fit for the system. What do you recommend.I have 2000 sq ft home well insulated,and this will be a 3 ton unit. WHAT UNIT SHOULD i PURCHASE?? Any pointers.

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Comments (13)

fsq4cw
14 years ago
Either unit would be a fine choice. The Performance unit may be a better choice due to simplicity (single stage) and lower price. The key would be that in either case, to have the Carrier Infinity air-handler installed in that itÂs variable speed and would Âself adjustÂ to the static pressure of your existing duct system. It would, along with the Infinity thermostat, provide superior dehumidification.

SR
ryanhughes
14 years ago
The Performance 16 is a 2 stage unit and fully compatible with the Infinity control.
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We have what you have, except we have the Performance 13 SEER. It works great. We don't have near the heating days you have, but your humidity is worse than ours. Option 1 is awesome at humidity removal as the Infinity t-stat coupled with the VS motor gives 'cool to dehumidify' feature. Keep in mind that an Infinity t-stat is about 350-375 retail alone. I would spring for the optional external temp sensor, to. It connects to the furnace board and the other end is mounted outside in shade and it displays the outside temp on the t-stat. The Infinity control is in direct digital communication with the furnace/air handler, and picks a blower speed on the fly based on conditions. The ability to run at much lower than normal CFM/ton rates improves the amount of dehumidification relative to the amount of cooling, which reduces the amount of overcooling that is required in the first place. If the t-stat setpoint is 76 and it needs to cool for dehumidification, the setpoint will keep saying 76, but you may find that the actual room temperature on the display is 74 (two degrees under setpoint) and the compressor is running still. You'll see this most often on rainy humid days when the outside temp is 73-80. In cool to dehumidify operation, it will take room temp below setpoint 3 degrees max, or to 72, whichever comes first. Again, it's awesome! If the setpoint was below what you had programmed, that's going to be because it was preparing for the next programmed period. Remember that with an Infinity system the times and temperatures you program are for when you want it to achieve the programmed temperature, not when you want it to start trying to get there.
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Living in NoVA, I can tell you that those electric rates are too low. I have Dominion which should be the same as yourself. The rates are broken up into two parts: Distribution and Supply. Supply is also broken down further. They also vary for winter/summer. To see the exact rates, you would need to look at the tariff. Off of my April bill, ignoring taxes and credits, $90.96 / 769 kwH = $0.118/kwh. Yes, there is a step rate above 800kwH but I think it lowers slightly. 11 cents would be fine for a cost estimate. Oh, and I paid something around $7k for a 2.5ton single stage Trane system a few years ago. Fair amount of labor removing the old indoor system, running new electrical and refrigerant lines, etc.
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They will not honor the warranty if I don't match the coil to the heat pump. What coil do you currently have, and what coil would be required for the 5 speed heat pump? Is "They" the Carrier dealer? Is he saying he won't honor the 1 year labor warranty and the 10 year parts warranty from Carrier? Has the dealer explained what bad things will happen if the coil is not replaced? There are many mfgs that provide bonus warranty protection for a limited time (ICP is one of them) if the E-coil and condenser (HP same difference) are replaced at the same time. It's more or less another "incentive" to spend money for protection that I have never witnessed being needed. I've had one compressor fail around year four on a condenser I installed ( a single compressor in about 14 years of running my own company), but it had multiple part failures prior to that so highly unlikely it was anything I did. Under a 4 year failure --- a two year replacement guarantee will do nothing. (it only kicks in if the compressor fails) . I've replaced litterally hundreds of condensers only and many of those installs I have never gone back, not even a maintenance check. So as busy as I can be sometimes, I am always looking for new work. Whether it's one piece or two? a complete system, zoning etc. It doesn't matter to me. Obviously only the pieces I replace are covered by any warranty and depending what happens and the time in which it does will likely have some out of pocket expense. Mfgs only cover parts, they don't cover labor, refrigerant, freight, diagnosing and so on. As an example: The Mfgs may give you a 1 or 2 year condenser replacement if the compressor fails within the first or 2nd year when the E-coil was replaced at the same time. That doesn't include labor to remove and install a new condenser *if* the compressor were to fail. So if you're not using someone good? They could be creating their own work. Of course I do all my own install work, so if a compressor was to fail within that 2 year window? I'd start questioning my methods. Some companies do not have the technical talent for diagnosing, it's about sell, sell, sell to keep their employees busy with piece work. There's more money in replacing more equipment so they simply don't get involved in 1 piece here and there mentality. There's plenty of wording within the warranty documents that allow companies to make the choices they make. (doing or not doing singular piece work) To me it's likely the skill level of those behind the work. I live in a hot climate so I could easily make that choice if I really want to, but I chose to provide *SERVICE* -- meaning you have someone to get you out if / when things go bad. Regardless of what may or may not be covered by a mfg warranty. No where in there should you think any of this is free. Mfgs don't pay me, the customer that calls me pays the bill. To me it doesn't matter. I provide solutions the customer picks and chooses once they have a clear understanding of what their *best* choices are. In this thread... the better choice would be to exit the Carrier / ICP mantra for something that would play nice with the existing equipment. That choice requires skill and know how. An 60+ speed inverter that would run circles around a 2 stage or even 5 stage for that matter -- with no odd off cycle hissing noises either. Common over night temp. lows are in the 60's / 70's --- that's quite a drop off from 95F to 100F+ during the summer days for my climate. Your unit is over sized at 70% capacity in first speed at 60/70F OAT. A more mild climate makes this even worse. They tell you that sizing is important don't they? Humidity is the other wild card. I service the Katy, Texas area.
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fsq4cw
14 years ago
The Carrier Performance Series HP & A/C are single stage units. Only the Infinity Series HP & A/C are 2-stage.

SR
tigerdunes
14 years ago
carl

I don't mean to dispute the previous poster but his comments are not correct. Carrier has recently introduced the Performance 16 which is a two stg HP condenser(same as Bryant's Preferred 16). Plus I believe Carrier's Comfort 16 and Bryant's Legacy 16 are both two stg.

I still like heat pumps that have electronic demand defrost feature rather than time/temp. this eliminates nuisance and unnecessary defrost cycle calls.

these are my minimum specs for a new HP system. both outside and inside units should be replaced to have a properly matched system.

15 SEER, 12.5+ EER, 9 HSPF
best matching VS air handler
full BTUs in both cooling and heating for your rated size
R-410a refrigerant(same as Puron)
scroll compressor preferred
electronic demand defrost preferred
thermostat with "dehumidify on demand" feature
staged backup heat strips
new and correctly sized refrigerant lineset

you want a thorough inspection of your ductwork system. size, overall condition, supply and return lines, insulation qualities, leak test, etc.

any hot/cold spot issues in your home should be addressed.

I would only use authorized dealers for the various brands that provide quotes. see mfg websites.

My personal favs are Trane's XL15i or XR15 and AmStd's Heritage 15 Heat Pumps.

you seem to have a difficult time making a decision.

IMO
Good Luck!
ryanhughes
14 years ago
SR, as tiger said, Carrier has changed a few things in the product line. The Infinity units are NOT the only 2 stage units available. See their website. Performance 16 is 2 stage, Performance 15 is single stage.
fsq4cw
14 years ago
Thanks tigerdunes,

I stand corrected. Here in Canada, weÂre installing the Carrier Performance 25HPA5 Series that are single stage units. I also see that there is a Carrier Performance 25HPA6 Series that are 2-stage units.

There is never a dispute when IÂm wrong and someone else is right; I appreciate the opportunity to learn.

SR
ryanhughes
14 years ago
The primary reason the 25HPA6 and 25HCB6 models were brought in to begin with is to help the larger tonnage units qualify for the tax credit here in the US.
fsq4cw
14 years ago
Thank you too ryanhughes, I (as well as many others) appreciate learning these things. I imagine weÂll be seeing them here too (Canada) in the near future as well.

Steve
tigerdunes
14 years ago
Steve

just like you, I want to learn as well. all the best to our northern neighbor.

TD
fsq4cw
14 years ago
Thanks tigerdunes,

All the best to our Southern family too.

Steve
carl883
Original Author
14 years ago
the contractor gave me a option . Option 1 trane XLI 15 single stage . Option 2 carrier performance 16 two stage. It is not the money it is what does the job better as far as heat and air condition . I am buying a heat pump. Any pointers. Thank You
tigerdunes
14 years ago
carl

first, I have never been a big fan of two stg condensers AC or HP because of the price and marginal comfort and operating cost improvement. the main exception would be in a zoning application with zoning controls.

the XL15i HP is one of the best sgl stg condensers on the market. there are two major reasons I like the XL15i pumps. this winter, the Atlantic states, South and Southeast were hit by major snow/ice storms. The XL15i has Trane's proprietary top which helps the condenser fan from freezing up. There were a lot of HPs that were simply overwhelmed by these storms and had to go to straight emergency electric backup. And then there is "electronic demand defrost" feature which eliminates unnecessary and nuisance defrost calls unlike time/temp defrost. I do recommend a staged heat strip. I know Trane has two sizes, a 7/12 KW and a 10/15 KW. You want a stat that has "dehumidify on deemand" feature like HW VisionPro IAQ.

as I have said before, good equipment, good install, good ductwork system will make a happy homeowner.

I refer you back to my checklist on this thread.

IMO
Good Luck!
nan_sosrhino_org
13 years ago
Should the temperature spread in the carrier infinity be 5 degrees. Set at 68 it will vary in temperature from 67 to 73. Any remedy?

carrier performace or carrier infinity

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