Before I can comment I need to know:

- Where is the money for the second cash box coming from?

- What do you mean by "as is?"

- Were you responsible for reconciling the petty cash back when the receipts and cash added up? If so, were you or your supervisor aware of how it became short?

- Does the missing cash present a problem for your supervisor? Will your supervisor be responsible for the missing cash or is it just a paperwork issue since it's been going on for so long?

How do I see it? Like the organization needs tighter cash control. What happens when the organization is audited or does the books at year end?

I wouldn't want to sign a report that said X amount of money was in cash box #1 when in fact some of it came from cahs box #2. I don't know that I would resign over it, but I would ask not the be the person responsible for reconciling the boxes or signing the reports.

This gets a bit more complicated to answer kelly. There are 10 disabled consumers (yes that is what a disabled client is called nowadays.) who have ledger books with cash in zippered pouches. Because she does not want staff going in these, she will take money out of the cash box which is really for household. Every few months she will "do the books" and put money back from here to there. If she did this weekly, I don't think she would have to do what she is doing.
"As is" means if I write down that on Thursday July 5th, I counted $500.00 then that is what I record. Not then started a new form and sayig that there is $700.00 to make it balance.
The place gets audited, but usually for the state type things. Yet she wants all this to come out right because it might very well come down to this.
Lately the difference has become higher and higher. Years ago, it usued to be under $100.00. I started getting concerned when one day it was short $600.00. I am not concerned with stealing. (Although there was an incident of theft out of the consumer ledgers, but that is another story)
When I told my boss, first she insinuated that maybe I left something out! But then she started scurrying around and then came up with $300.00 cash and a bunch of receipts. I got it down to less tha $80.00 short that time just for having this conversation.
Leafy, when I had a discussion about the petty cash I was told that she wouldn't want me to do something I am uncomfortable with, but she would give me less hours. I am only there 12 hours a week! Not worth it to do it for less.
Bfenton, they don't seem to have the petty cash audited and they do not do year end paper work in our office. This might happen at the main office, but I would not know about it.
Thanks for listening.

I am a college administrator and one of my roles is administrative advisor for ~25 student organizations. Something that I stress constantly to my student leaders who deal with funds, especially cash, is what I refer to as proper procedure in handling OPM: Other People's Money. And my message is--you better be much more careful with OPM than you are with your own! I felt the same way in my PTA days. And I occasionally have to deal with cash for the organizations I"m advising, so I follow my own advice.

I agree 1000% that you did the right thing in resigning. I suspect the administrator who is asking you to fudge the numbers is dipping into the money herself. Petty cash should balance to the penny. And records should be kept and signed off by several people, each of whom has both the responsibility and authority for handling the funds.

Our university actually discourages petty cash funds and I agree for the most part. Cash is just too easily 'lost' or somehow unaccounted for. I do not like having cash in my possession at all and I try to deposit it ASAP when I do deal with it.

Big, big red flags here. Since this is a state agency when, not if, there is an audit you could be liable. You have in fact been signing off (responsibility/authority) on falsified financial records already. I'm not at all casting any aspersions on you and obviously you are an honest person or you wouldn't have resigned. It's good you left now and I hope there are no repercussions.

Runninginplace said, "Big, big red flags here. Since this is a state agency when, not if, there is an audit you could be liable. You have in fact been signing off (responsibility/authority) on falsified financial records already. I'm not at all casting any aspersions on you and obviously you are an honest person or you wouldn't have resigned. It's good you left now and I hope there are no repercussions."

I agree completely.

Thanks to all of you. I can always count on my GW friends:) I just needed afirmation for what I already know. Nine years is a long time and I have developed close relationships with a few coworkers. So, although I feel sad, I am also relieved.

Whoa...theres a huge problem with that "method" of bookkeeping. Untruthful, unethical, and un- everything else. Your instincts are dead right in this case.

About 8-10 yrs ago, I oversaw the shutting down of nearly 200 petty cash accounts at my then employer. We would have VERY MUCH appreciated knowledge that this type of playing with funds was going on. I'd encourage you to think about reporting this practice to someone higher up.

Add me to the red flag group. Wow...that's really something. I'm amazed it hasn't been audited yet. Someone will have a lot of 'splainin' to do!

Good that you quit when you did, but I would still document what you know, just in case. It doesn't sound like someone is embezzling, just doing something they're not supposed to be doing.

Yes pesky1, I feel the same way. When I had the discussion with my boss, I really thought she would say that she would work on getting it right, and not to continue it!

I also think that you might consider writing up a summary of this situation, and asking your supervisor to provide you with a signed copy that he/she agrees with it. Stating that this is more of a timing thing as to when/how reimbursements were posted and reconciled. That you are in no way leaving because you suspect that there is any unethical or fraudulent activity occurring, and that you yourself are not leaving to avoid being dismissed due to the suspicion of any unethical or fraudulent activity. And frankly, you may want to have it notarized. One never knows should there be something discovered later on, if you might come under fire.

I appreciate your advise. The cash box is my personal reason for leaving. But, to compound things, this past week I was asked to change my work days. One having to be a Tuesday. I work a second job Monday, Tuesday and Thursday. This is a market research job and as a panelist I work as team with 14 other people. Can't be changed.
So, on the record I left because I could no longer work the hours that was best for the office.
There are other things that have bothered me for years, but I was able to ignore. It is a very odd environment in that there is the mother of the boss working there, the ex-husband working there, a on again off again bofriend working there, and a teenage daughter working there! And, this is not to mention the other group home with various relatives.
I was able to handle this for many years until I started realizing how extra work hours were doled or how it was OK for some to take long lunches etc.while the rest of us ate at our desks.
There is a lot of good that happens there. Besides the fact that 10 disable people are living and treat well, my boss adopted a neighbors abandoned cats and they run in and out. But,as much as I enjoyed the cats, she expected us to chip in for food and vet bills. Finally I had to say that if I kept doing it I would be working for free!
So, what started as a fun yet kooky work environment, became stressful. As my now former coworker just said to me, this is a weird place and always will be. You can either accept it or not. And you reached the point where you couldn't.
At this point I am severing ties and hoping for the best. I am grateful that everyone here sees it the same way I do.

Yes, it does sound like a complicated situation and a strange work environment. There is a chance that nothing will ever come of the cash situation since the place seems to be off the rails and has been for a long time.

Leaving was the right thing to do. Since you say the disabled people living there are treated well, I would just let it go and not try to stir the pot by contacting the state.

Thanks for gettting back Kelly. I agree.

The disabled can be helped in ways that don't enrich those who are helping them, especially at taxpayer expense. I am sure the private donors expect that their money is going to the disabled, also. I would contact the state, or at least the local newspaper, because it seems very fishy to me. I think you should blow the whistle.

There must be accountability. It doesn't sound so much a quirky environment as it does deliberately quirky to cover up the true nature of things. You were right to quit; now I think you should take it further.

Sherrman, after being here for nine years, I don't believe totally in what you are saying, which is why I am not going to get involved. I have thought of it in the past.
There is a new director and I am hoping she will see all the waste and reorganize.
I often said that the disabled there are Not treated like everyone else, they are treated BETTER. And, that is certainly where it un fair to the taxpayers.
So, thanks, but it would be too stressful and frankly I am relieved to be removed from it all.

Your OP asked:
I felt this is being untruthful. How do you see it?

To me, it's untruthful not to report this to a person who is in a position to do something about it. Just my 2 cents.

Right now, while it's still very clear and fresh in your mind, I would write down a formal narrative (with as much data/as many dates as possible, even just approximations like months) as to how this practice evolved and who you spoke with about it, and when. Describe the frequency of this occuring where ever possible, etc. Anything that you recall about it will be useful for remembering. Be sure to document your impression that your concerns would have reduced your hours (this was a HUGE red flag for me in what you wrote). Try to recall exactly what was said, by whom.

Then get the document notarized. (You don't have to display the contents of the document to get something notarized. Just cover the text up, notaries do this all the time.) Then put the document away in a safe place, even if you are not interested in following this up, now. Having it notarized strengthens your position of having been concerned at the time, not just after someone levels an accusation.

I don't want to worry you, but eventually someone will audit something and it is your signature on the reconciliation documents that attested to their "accuracy". If someone has questions about the shortages, the fact that you wrote down a statement abobut what was happening, contemporaneously, (even at this late date) will help you recall correctly the sequence and events that lead up to what is a very irregular way of handling a petty cash drawer. And it may protect you from being thrown under the bus. The cash was going missing because someone was mishandling it (either by carelessness, or theft -and "borrowing" money while meaning to pay it back, later, is a classic way white-collar theft happens). You, as an ex-employee (especially a non-related one) are vulnerable.

The fact that the director was adopting the care of stray cats ("isn't she so nice!") and then foisting the cost onto her employees clearly shows she has disturbed boundaries between what hers and what's other people's; both for responsibilities, and perhaps property, like cash.

Protect yourself by writing down what happened, and move on knowing your ethical instincts were correct.

L.

Thanks for your advise liri

If you choose not to report I would at least take the time to make a log of everything questionable over the years before some of the dates and instances slip your mind. I can understand your reluctance to report as I'm sure you have developed some attachments and loyalties over the years. I'm just worried if you don't report, some of this stuff could come back on you. It would be a shame for someone as nice as you to get hurt, jailed or get a criminal record. These things do happen to good people. If it is all as you suspect they will get found out eventually.
My husband got ripped off badly from his bookkeeper and it took us several years to get back on track. It is everyone’s duty to blow the whistle on strange behaviors as you have witnessed. If not, good people get hurt.

Lirio has given you invaluable advice Ellendi and I urge you to follow it. From an HR perspective, be sure to make this a *factual* and non-judgmental narrative as much as possible. Often when people start documenting they, very naturally, insert opinions, theories, guesses etc and that weakens the document substantially. The more it is a fact based list of who/what/when/where/how, the better. And keep the focus on the finances not on other issues like asking you to work unpaid hours, pet expenses etc. You can document that too, but do it separately.

Regardless of why you went along with it, or that you are honest and wouldn't ever steal, from a forensic/legal viewpoint your signature indicates that either 1) you didn't know what was happening and still signed which shows a severe lack of professionalism or 2) you were in on it and thus may be legally liable. Either option is not a good place to be when the hammer comes down on this.

I really don't want to get re-invoolved but understand what you are saying. There is someone who is still working there that is always annoyed at the goings on. If it came down to it, I know she would tell all.
A third woman is very loyal and she has not been asked to do anything questionable. The rest are relatives!
My exboss felt that she is the one ultimately responsbile and the money is usually (not always) in the second cash box to cover the $1900.00.

I worked on a study many years ago that dealt with bank trust departments. There was one bank that kept its records strangely, different from all other banks in the study. It turned out that the head of the trust department was embezzling trust funds.
All I'm saying is that when you see money accounted for in an unusual way, it's typically a symptom of something underhanded going on.
Protect yourself now. Don't rely on others to come forward later. If you can get that woman to send you a certified letter now that you don't open. so much the better.

I am the Operations Director (HR & Finance) for a non-profit and a CPA. I have also been the treasurer of many organizations at my children's schools over the years. You did the right thing by resigning. I also see many red flags here, and think you should (if you did not already) write up your resignation letter to include those red flags as one of your reasons for leaving. In other words, you need to CYA in case of an unfavorable audit. You could also send a letter to the governing authority of this agency.

Texan, I hear what you are saying, but at this time I don't have it in me. After leaving abruptly after almost nine years, I am really saddened over how things went down.
There are so many other things that should be looked at that if I was ever to be called in, I would also point them in that direction as well.
If I were to get the wheels in motion now, it would be a mess. I would feel badly for the 10 consumers who have a really secure and safe home environment. Not so with the many group homes out there.

Ellendi, I really think you should reread all these posts and rethink your opinion. You need to protect yourself, and it could be years before an audit occurs that would cast suspicion on YOU. Also, fishy finances mean that probably less cash is actually going to the 10 consumers. I understand that they are in a safe, secure home environment, but that doesn't make fishy finances any better. Maybe with proper accounting and oversight there would be room for another consumer or two or three, instead of more for your employers.

You may be considered complicit in any wrong-doing. Maybe your employers are afraid you were on to them and devised a way to get you to leave on your own, thus the change in hours. Don't trust them not to name you as the wrong-doer if they get caught. Yours will be the first name they mention: "I had no idea ellendi was doctoring the books!" How are you going to disprove that?

Sherman, thanks for your concern. I actually have text messages that I am going to save that will show my distress and the response of my coworker.
If anyone were to question me, I would have lots of other things for them to look into.
My concern is not that the money was "disappearing" but that it was not being managed in a timely fashion.
When I voiced my concern to my now ex boss, she should have said that I right in wanting things to balance and that she would keep up her end to make sure it hapapened. I was shocked to hear that nothing was going to change, and in fact if I was not comfortable then I did not have to do this part of the job. Of course she would have to cut my hours. Any less than 12 hours would not be worth going in for, so this was not an option.
I think if this was questioned, she can show that she has the money, but in a different box. She would then have to admit that she was not keeping her end up to date and that is why she devised this plan. She said that she was the one responsible, not me and that there would not be an issue since she has the money albeit floating around somewhere or in the second box.
Also, I took home some of the copies of correct forms. They show what actually happened. How much actually over or under. Do you think this would help my case or hurt it if it came down to it?

Just another point as i re read these threads. Although I did the paper work, there was never a place for me to sign my name. It was listed as a worksheet. Top sheet was for the receipts. Nothing had a place for a signature.

Ellen,

Yes, keep the hard copies of the emails, and the copies of the reports. But don't forget to write it all down, as I suugested, too.

It's good that you didn't actually sign the docs because that probably eliminates legal accusations of the crime of "falsifying business documents", but you are still at some risk of false accusations that you were the cause of the shortages, not simply the person charged with trying to keep the accounts up to date.

Irregular and sloppy handling of non-personal funds (by your Director) will eventually come out - and somebody will be blamed. Your Director's other actions (your story of the cat care that she took on and that then became the responsibility of others to support) leads me to see her as someone who doesn't accept responsibility for her actions, hence my worry that you will be at risk if the financial problems come to light and her lack of accountability (both financial and personal) is exposed.

That's why people are urging you to take steps now, in a proactive way, to bring the situation to someone who can act. You felt deeply enough about it to leave a job, so it must have bothered you, as well.

At the every least, perhaps you could talk to whoever supervises the Director. They could see that she gets re-training and adopts correct accounting for funds in the future. It's not like the whole group home will be shut down, or that she would get criminal charges against her. (Unless she was also stealing other money, which is always possible, too.) But the good the program does will run aground eventually unless the problems are resolved. Better now, than later, I think.

This stinks that it falls on you to take action. It's probably way above your (actual) "pay grade" to have to deal with this. But we all have ethical pay grades, irrespectvely of our financial circs., and my opinion (easy for me to say!) is that you should try to make this bad situation better by reporting it to someone who can effect the needed changes.

Better for you (in avoiding long-term worry and risk, and now, when your conscience is pricking you).

Better for the Director who is probably aware of her short-comings but unable to make the changes without prodding, And whether or not she is now inappropriately using the funds, she will be always at risk of falling into even deeper problems if this is not stopped.

Better for the clients since messy-money probably also results in somewhat less services than they might get, and certainly stress over something they can't control. Because if nipped in the bud now, the house need not change, as it would certainly happen if this progresses to outright theft.

Better for your co-workers, too, even if they don't see it.

Better even for the cats since their situation may become more stable.

I think that in the long run discovering your personal ethical boundaries and knowing you will act on them will be a source of self-confidence and strength. Crap happens, randomly, it's what you do about it that counts.

But as I said above, "easy for me to say." OTOH, without going into details, I have faced somewhat differetn ethical issues, and after an internal struggle, dealt with it publically. Years later, I'm glad I did, even though it came with some stress/anxiety at the time.

L.

Thanks Liri you have given me lots to think about. I am still saddened for leaving so abruptly. This has never been my style. But at the same time, I feel relieved. Too much going on there that it eventually got the better of me.
My official reason for leaving is that my hours had to be changed and due to scheduling conflict with the other part time job I was unable to make the change.
I think my reason for posting was to get a sense of whether I was over reacting to the two cash boxes. I guess I did not expect the responses that I got and that I would have to take some action. I always felt that if I was asked anything, of course I would tell the truth. This very well may happen sooner than later.
Again, thank you for your support, I really appreciate it.

The consumers are treated very,very well. That is the main reason I stayed as long as I did. I truly belive in the work that goes on there.
You are dead right about my pay grade. I often thought of this as volunteer work that I got paid for.
What I do hope will happen is that there will be cutbacks to both group homes. There is unbelieveable waste in spending, not even mentioning all the relatives on board.
Again, all this craziness just caught up with me.
My gut feeling is that if the two petty cash boxes did come up, she would somehow come up with the difference. And, the reason why things did not balance is because she wasn't doing it right, not that there was stealing.
As I mentioned in my first post, it bothered me to write something that clealy was not true, regardless that money was in a second box. Who knows, maybe this is acceptable in the scheme of things.
It is true that as I started to confide in my DH and friends, they were also concerned. All the feedback here just confirms it.
At this point I do hear what everyone is saying, but I am not going to act at this time. If questioned I can honestly say that this is how my boss wanted me to handle things.
Two years ago, when the organization probably thought changes were down the road, we had to go to a large meeting. We were told that if we saw fraud we should report in ananomously. But we all felt that since this is a small place, it would be easy to track down who said what. The other key point that was mentioned was relative working for relatives. The acting directing quickly went by this saying she was not sure how this would be handled. Currently, they added a clause that mentioned that relatives could work for relative until deemed otherwise.
I might,at some point down the road write a letter to the new director about the waste of money, problems in saffing and the favoritism of the relatives reporting to each other.

VERY wise words from Liriodendron and Texanjana --

Please also consider the angle that if fraud is discovered (which sounds very plausible to me - sorry) the very existence of that lovely safe home for disabled people could be put in jeopardy.

Also, what's up with petty cash in the first place? And how would having TWO cash boxes make A+B any more reliable than what's in A alone? think about it - just doesn't make sense. (Except as a way to quickly 'fix B' as soon as a problem is discovered in A.) Purchasing cards are much easier to use and leave a better audit trail. There are VERY few places that don't take plastic these days...

"Two years ago, when the organization probably thought changes were down the road, we had to go to a large meeting. We were told that if we saw fraud we should report in ananomously. But we all felt that since this is a small place, it would be easy to track down who said what. The other key point that was mentioned was relative working for relatives. The acting directing quickly went by this saying she was not sure how this would be handled. Currently, they added a clause that mentioned that relatives could work for relative until deemed otherwise.
I might,at some point down the road write a letter to the new director about the waste of money, problems in staffing and the favoritism of the relatives reporting to each other. "

VERY interesting topic for a meeting... I have to wonder if that 'off the cuff' fraud comment was made because someone suspected something. It's not the kind of comment that generally gets made in a staff meeting.

Please write that letter. As the parent of a disabled teen, I desperately want those programs to succeed. Finding the prob

sweeby, I do appreciate your concern and input. When I started this thread I wanted to get a sense that what I was interpreting was correct. I did not expect to be strongly advised to "turn the office in" to authorities.
IMHO I do not believe my supervisor is stealing. She just does not have a good handle on how to fix the petty cash problem because she refuses to change her system because it would mean additional work for her. (Which I explained in other post above.) I also think that there is a waste of money weekly. How many families can afford Chinese take out and pizza night EVERY week?
I think my frustration is one that has developed slowly over the years. As I stated in a previous post, I believe the disabled should be treated the same as everyone else NOT better. Because they are only allowed a certain amount in their bank accounts in order to get benefits, they often have to spend money. One woman is going to Paris in the fall. She has been on many exotic trips and the funny part is that although she is high functioning enough to enjoy a trip, she will come back and talk about a bird she saw or food she ate. How many people out there who work really hard, will ever get to see Paris?
We have been audited many times. What the state seems to focus on is billing. All paper work has to be exact and the reports always come back great. I guess technically speaking they are allowed to go on a vacation.
sweeby, I realize you have a disabled teen and this is close to your heart, but the other "waste" that I see if how it takes a village to get a disabled person to a bagging job at the local supermarket. Job coaches, paratransit (which means special vechicle, drivers, special tickets printed up for boarding) And, they are being bussed many town over rather than try to get local people into local stores! There is no overall watchdog agency that can say, hey let's be more efficient here and save money.
The fraud meeting was actually state mandated and partly had to do with medicare, medicaid etc. It was at the main office and run by the acting director. But, we also all took it to mean any wrong doing.
There is now a new director is place. This is why my supervisor wants to get her group home in top shape. Part of this was changing my schedule for better coverage in the office. IMHO the new director will not start marking changes until she is there for a long while. After all, her job is on the line too as a new person.
I thank everyone for their advise, but at this time I do not want to be the one to start things in motion.

"Because they are only allowed a certain amount in their bank accounts in order to get benefits, they often have to spend money."

I have to agree that this is a dumb and counter-productive rule that causes a lot of fraud-like behavior and behind the scenes manipulations. If they (the gov't) would just provide health insurance for disabled people regardless of income, I bet you'd see a lot of those problems disappear.

In fact, access to health care is the ONLY reason I currently envision why my son will need to be 'in the disability system'. The kinds of jobs he is likely to be able to get and perform successfully -- your basic low-skilled minimum wage -- just don't come with adequate health insurance. And the private insurance market discriminates against people with disabilities. (They often do cost more for medical care - I get that...) So what other option does he have? Except to comply with whatever the stupid rules require?

(Incidentally, he got his own 'bagging' job in our local supermarket on his own with no 'program' involvement. I'm very proud of him for that!)

Good for him! Just proves it does not have to take a village to get the disabled up and running. Your son is a good example of that.
Doctors are another area. Yes, says Dr. H please bring M back in three months so we can look at that toe! And of course that means another billing.
This goes on and on.
I do hear what you are saying.