John, Don't worry about thinking your are being too assertive... no offense is taken. I'm just genuinely curious as to why the soft water is perceived as being so terrible. I often see many quite firm statements on a variety of topics (water, fertilizer, temperature, sunlight, methods for planting in ground, etc...) related home gardening. There is a sound horticultural basis behind many of these recommendations, but at the same time I see many firm recommendations that for most people likely make no difference one way or the other. I don't see the point of having this huge list of varying do's and don'ts if a large portion of the recommendations either are minimally helpful, or don't really have any impact. When I began growing container citrus several years ago, I started out all gung-ho trying to do everything under the sun that was recommended to make my trees happy especially in winter (grow lights, supplemental heating, boosting the humidity, etc...). The end result invariably was sickly looking trees. I've had much better luck not really doing too much and allowing the trees to acclimate gradually on their own to whatever their current environment happens to be. Getting back to the soft water question. I completely agree that too much sodium chloride will kill plants, especially citrus. I would also add that too much salt of any kind could kill your plants, of course the lethal concentrations will vary quite widely depending on the specific toxicities. An ion exchange water softener does not add sodium chloride to the water. The sodium chloride is just used to regenerate the ion exchange resin by saturating it with sodium ions. The softening process only replaces the magnesium and calcium ions with sodium. The primary anion before and after treatment should remain carbonate, no additional chloride is added. Since sodium carbonate is much more soluble in water than either magnesium or calcium carbonate, one could argue that it would be more difficult to build up high concentrations of it in the container. This is assuming that one flushes their container with excess water on a semi regular basis. Nevertheless, I doubt this aspect really makes much significant difference one way or the other if the container is being flushed with water periodically. While thinking about this whole issue, I also came across several research papers that investigate the effects of salinity on citrus. The primary toxic effects of "salinity" on citrus are increased osmotic stress and specific ion toxicities. Again, if one is flushing their container with water semi-regularly, osmotic stress should never become an issue, as the excess accumulated salts will be washed out regularly. With respect to ion toxicity, the general consensus seems to be that chloride is a more significant issue than sodium. However, the water softening process does not really add any chloride to the the treated water, therefore its concentration is no different than in the untreated water. The concentration of sodium carbonate in the "softened" water is also not really ever going to be that high (in the neighborhood of 200 ppm, if the input water is classified as very hard). I've seen a study (link below) that subjected citrus to salt (sodium chloride and/or calcium chloride) at concentrations up to 6000 ppm. Although the differences in response to the salt challenge were clearly noticeable among the tested cultivars, the most significantly damaged trees only showed a "slight marginal burn" on the leaves. So even assuming there was 200 ppm sodium chloride in the softened water, it would take several months of watering with no flushing of the soil to build up to these high salt concentrations where there are clearly visible toxicity effects. In summary, I do not see any scientific basis for why "softened" water should be perceived as so bad for citrus culture. At the same time, there is not much evidence that it has any significant benefits. In the absence of finding any direct studies investigating this question, I think the issue is largely irrelevant for container citrus culture. If a few basic care practices are observed (mainly not treating your soil as a black hole in which an infinite amount of fertilizer and soluble salts from the water supply can be allowed to accumulate), it shouldn't really matter. I will add one final caveat, if signs of salt toxicity do happen to appear irrespective of the water source, then one should absolutely start trying to isolate and correct the problem. John, I'm curious to know if you have any additional thoughts. In any case, cheers, and thanks for the discussion! -Scott PS Susan, my sincere apologies for taking your thread off on a little tangent. Here is a link that might be useful: Salt tolerance of some citrus

Hi Fellow Sensitive People, I've just moved into an apartment to escape another noisy apartment in which I lived for only three months. I was luckily able to re-assign that lease. My current Landlord was fair enough to allow me my first month before signing a one year lease. Before this month ends, I have to decide if I'm going to stay. The main problem in my last apartment was that it was in the basement of an older house. Therefore, every noise from the apartment above was as if it was in my apartment. It sounded like the only thing between me and the floor above was a piece of thin plywood. So, when the small but heavy footed woman above me walked, it created intolerable thumps and vibrations like a diving board. Not every day but on certain occasions, she had some unsavory characters over. These visits often resulted in foul language, shouting, threatening words and "Get Out" between them etc. I had to fork out over $150 a month more in rent to move into my current apartment. I'm in a triplex and the current landlord assured me that there is concrete and plaster between the floors and walls. Now, I don't have the thin floorboard above me. So, I can't hear the person walking. However, I think I hear cupboards closing and the water pipes clunk after the water is shut off. This is especially irritating in the morning when people are getting up and at night before they go to bed. Apparently, the vibrations and thumps from cupboards and furniture being dragged across the floor aren't muffled by the heavier materials. My floor is carpeted but not all of the other apartments are. I live near the stirs and those who like to run up them or walk heavily are quite audible as well. I could have taken a third floor apartment elsewhere but the area or condition of the building weren't as good. Besides, as others in this forum have mentioned, irritating sounds come from below as well. I hesitate to move again because this place is better than the last one. In addition, if a totally sound proof apartment does exist, it would be out of my price range. I think what we're all finding out here is that there is no "Bed of Roses." If you find it, enjoy it while it lasts because circumstances always change beyond our control. And, I think "Control" is the key word here. If we were all to form a club, it would be called the "Living Space Control Club." We are all nice people--I'm sure we've all heard that before. We're nice because we control our own behaviour to try not to offend or upset others. We're not wimps--if pushed too far, we'll unleash a world of hurt on the offender--but we'd rather avoid that, if possible. That being said, we often don't understand others who don't control their behaviour according to our standards. We tend to become resentful and interpret their "noise making" as an attack on our space. If we showed that lack of consideration to others, that would be our intention, right? So, we instinctively attribute such malice to others behaviour. Usually, they don't have a problem with us and no offence is intended. They just have different priorities to us. Here's the rub. Humans have very different priorities but we're all territorial to one degree or another. In my last apartment, I very politely confronted the noisy woman above me. I asked her if she could hear sounds from my apartment. She replied, "I can hear everything but I'm not a complainer." To that I replied, "Well, I have to do computer work down there." She was "getting drunk" because she just lost her job. So, she asked if we could talk about it the next day. I said that I just wanted to know if she could hear things from my apartment. Since she'd answered that, and was now aware of my situation, I saw no point in discussing it any further. Unfortunately, the situation did not improve. So, my point is that whether your neighbor reacts positively, negatively or indifferent, if they don't share your priorities, they'll think, "Who does he/she think they are?" "I pay rent here as well and I'm going to live according to my priorities." Based on the replies in this forum, there are more of us than I thought. In general society, I think we're in the minority. I have O.C.D, although I've kept it managable for years now. I suspect that I have A.D.D. as well. Someone else in this forum mentioned that he/she had A.D.D. These conditions along with many others are anxiety based. They would not have names or acronyms if everyone had them. Through my experience, I don't believe that there is any 100% cure for anxiety based conditions. However, through therapy, they can become manageable. I've had therapy for my O.C.D. and it helped. I will do a web search looking for suggestions to help me deal with my current sensitivity to noise. Perhaps, I'll follow up on the "nerve damage to ears" suggestion that another person made in this forum. I had many earaches as a kid. I've always found that the breathing exercises that I learned through behavioural modification helped. Maybe I'll try that as well. Any other suggestions would be appreciated as well. Take Care All!

asmom- i don't know why my DH omelette didn't work - but when we did an omelette with the 2 Wolf peeps - the omelette came out fine. They also shared the power % numbers which should be standard in the operating manual. The Wolf has 4 magnets, so the "splotches" are the 4 zones. Once the pan is warmed up, it settles down and seems to work just fine. Lorenza - You can get a very hot pan on the Wolf! I don't know how it would compare to gas - but it is more efficient so the heat goes to the pan. See my post on cooking about my scallops - they were absolutely wonderful. We don't eat much meat, so I am not the best to answer on the sear end of things - but I made an scrumptious pork roast - seared it and then tossed into the oven - I had beautiful "brown" sauerkraut - which irked my DB as he can never get his kraut to turn brown like DMs. Sauces are quite easy. I also made a beef stew - and used the cooktop like a crock pot - I put a probe into the pan to monitor and it stayed very stable and was delicious! My signature dish - "upside down salmon" comes out perfectly - I slice sweet potatoes and put a bit of oil in the pan, season the potatoes and then put the salmon skin side up in the pan - (after marinating) heat on medium for 5 minutes and then pop into the oven for 10-20 minutes depending on the size - then scoop out the potatoes and fish and flip it over so the caramelized potatoes are over top of the fish. I roast my peppers in the oven - but don't char them usually, so not a problem from my end. I am going to buy a grill pan but have not done so yet. I have a single griddle - I think it is All Clad - it is a square one and works fine Debating on the grill pan to purchase... I have heard that Wokking is hard - but haven't really tried it - but I am betting I could make it work with my giant Saute pan. And I haven't made my Paella yet... How did the Thermador compare to the Wolf?

Yes. I had them as a teenager, but didn't know that's what they were. I would feel like I couldn't breathe. I would go outside in the winter with no coat trying to get some air. Then they went away. Fast forward to 6 years ago and they are back. They started just before my dad passed away. I get them randomly. I talked to my dr and she asked if I wanted meds to help with them. I said yes. My options were for every day meds, or only when I need them. My choice was only as needed. That little bottle is my security blanket. I have it, but have never taken any. That doesn't mean I'm not having any. They just aren't as bad, and I am learning how to recognize and deal with them. Having said all that, I have been diagnosed with essential tremors. It affects my balance the most. The tremors themselves are sporadic. The panic attacks can, and do, trigger the tremors. The last panic attack was a year ago in Mexico. I didn't even realize that's what it was. All at once it was like I was in a bubble and everyone else was at a distance. We were with friends and couldn't leave right away. By the time we could come back to the USA my right hand/arm was useless due to the tremors. It was weeks later that I figured out what happened. When we got home I went to the dr who sent me to a neurologist that diagnosed me.