I don't eat it. But then I don't eat a lot of meat since I am not a huge fan of the way meat is grown in this country. There are some practices of veal farmers that people question the hummane-ness of, much like cows (feedlots) and chickens (not free range, etc.). I don't like veal, never have, but BF loves it. I'm not big on beef for both taste and ecological reasons, at least the way beef is produced now. If it was veal that came from some kind of big veal producing factory farm, no way for me! And since I usually have no way of knowing, I don't eat it at all. I don't miss it!

Here's some stuff linked below from the USDA on how veal is raised. Sorry, but a lot of it sounds like BS to me that was fed to them by the veal industry. It's very clear they are telling a selective tale and leaving out some details. So that's the veal industries line.

Here's an interesting link that kinda goes over the pros and cons.
What are the ethical objections to eating veal? from Wisegeek.com

I'm sure individual veal farmers would object to being lumped in the same category of those that use objectional practices, but like the article says, kinda hard to know whom you're buying from. This is an area of agriculture that is in flux, much like beef farming. I know of at least one local farmers in my area who is growing pasture raised beef and he also sells veal. I'd not hesitate one bit to buy from him. I know him and I know his methods. But since I also don't like beef and it is too costly for me to afford, no matter the way it is grown, it is moot for me, so I can't offer you the perspective of an eithical meat eater really. Meat in general just doesn't work for me, so I'm hardly your typical consumer.

Of course a lot of people could are less about any of this. In fact, it just may be the majority of people. So unless these issues bug you personally, I wouldn't sweat it. Bear in mind that you will run into folks who will object. I would say they will be in the small minority.

Here is a link that might be useful: How is veal raised

I eat veal and I like it very much. I buy from a local butcher shop. They raise and butcher all of the meats that they sell.

I've served veal often to guests and have never once had someone refuse to eat it.

Ruthanna, I would think that your local Co-Op would be very particular about who they obtain any of their foods from so I wouldn't hesitate to fill my freezer with this veal.

Ann

Neither of us eat veal. I never have. DH used to eat veal as a child but quit during his college years. It's not like peas...don't like peas but would certainly eat them, if served. Veal is something that we really just don't eat & would refuse even at a friend's home on principle. Thankfully, that's never happened & we've never been in that position.

/tricia

Nope, I don't eat veal. Thanksfully, I don't care for it.

A "veal" calf can weigh up to 800 pounds. I think it's cruel and inhumane to feed a half grown animal nothing but the milk substitute that veal gets. In addition, most veal is produced by the large feedlots and I'm opposed to them in general. I'd give up beef if I had to eat the commercial stuff.

Dad used to say it was a "farmer" thing. Why get 100 pounds of veal when you can keep it 6 months and get 300 pounds of beef.

Veal was traditionally the sick calves or the bull calves of dairy cows, which are expendable. Veal required milk and people with dairy cows used or sold the milk, they didn't leave calves nursing for any period of time.

As often happens, something that farmers ate because no one else wanted became popular and now we have a veal industry, go figure.

Nope, wouldn't eat it even if I liked it.

Annie

I am the widow of a man who spent his whole life in the dairy business, from the land, the animals, the milk to cheese and the marketing of the cheese.
cows have to give birth every 12 to 15 months in order to give good milk. Half of all calves are male. It only takes one bull to "service" a lot of cows, but these days most dairy cows are artificially inseminated. So bull calves are a by product of the milk and cheese industry, and sold as veal calves. They are kept with the mother a few days, then the females go into the heifer barn and are fed "milk replacer" and the bulls are sold to a veal operation where they are fed that milk replacer for another 3 or 4 months and then to the sale barn where they become chops and cutlets.
I love veal! Tender and seems to take on the flavor of whatever you season it with.
Linda C

We lived in dairy country for a while, after I was newly married (after being raised in the city). I grew up loving veal, but once I saw how it was raised, I never ate it again. The place where I lived was dotted with small local dairy farms, not big agribusiness types. They sold their milk to a large dairy operation. But I noticed these tiny little pens on a few of the farms. Dog house size (well, a bit larger, but just to give you a vision, with only a small place for the head of the animal to poke out. I asked what they were, because there were always rows of these little "houses". I was told they raised veal in them and they were tiny so the animals couldn't move and use their muscles which would toughen them. That they were force fed milk to keep the flesh light. UGH!! I can't quite imagine what a large veal operation might be like, but I'm sure it's much worse than that - if that's even possible.

I NEVER again ate veal and even if it was served by a friend (although none of mine would ever serve it) I would politely decline but eat the rest of the meal.

I don't buy veal and I would never order it at a restaurant (because of the inhumane treatment), but if someone served it to me at her home I would certainly have a small portion to be polite.

Alexa

I won't eat veal because of how the calves are raised. I find it appalling. We have a small farm up the road that appears to raise grass fed calves, but seeing them out grazing takes my away my desire to eat them!

Factory farming has really ruined meat for me. My son lives near a battery chicken farm. It's just awful.

I eat veal, once every three years?

It tastes like chicken.

So I buy chicken.

dcarch

I like veal and have no more issues eating it than I do chicken which is not exactly raised in the most humane conditions.

If you are buying your meat, poultry and fish in a retail environment you have no idea what the treatment of those animals was. Likely it is not something you really want to know about or we would all become vegetarians.

I don't eat it because I just don't like it. Just like I don't like liver or brains or tongue.
Clare

I married into a dairy family. DH's aunt raised veal calves. All were treated humanly although confined to a 10 x 10 area, they were only fed their mothers milk, not replacers and sold at 8 to 12 weeks.

Very good eating, but sadly those days are over.

The dairy has been gone since 1986.

I don't believe in making animals suffer to feed me. I can get all the nutrients I need without them. Our society has evolved far away from hunting wild game to feed a family, and now we restrict calf movement for months at a time in order to have tender meat. No longer do people hunt to survive...veal is a luxury item. Those poor things know nothing but misery from the time they are born till the time they are slaughtered, just to feed people some piccata one night. I don't know how that can be consciously justified.

I consider myself an ethical vegetarian, but meat itself isn't what I object to. It's the treatment of animals to get the meat that I find disturbing, barbaric and completely unnecessary.

I'm glad to see so many people opposed to veal! Plus baby cows are so darn cute.

I also don't eat veal for the reasons stated above. I don't take an all-or-nothing view that if I don't choose to be a vegetarian, I may as well eat all meat since other animals are treated as badly or worse that veal calves. I think every bit of change helps.

Like others, I've cut down on meat/poultry overall and try to find local farms where I have a level of assurance that the animals are treated humanely. It's pretty easy to do in my area, thankfully.

Sue

"Plus baby cows are so darn cute."
Chi I had to laugh.....they're called calves. But you are right, they are cute!!!

Around here they have the white plastic calf huts, where the calves are raised.

On the same topic as in-humane but with a different "animal" nothing is worse than Foi Gras.

Great discussion Ruthanna! I like the article I linked below, from the Pittsburgh Post. It shows how the pen and tether method of raising veal isn't the only method that works, nor was it the traditional one, and only came into being after WWII. I hope a lot of things change about the way we do agriculture in this country and around the world, as we stop using the "factory" analogy and start viewing farms and agriculture as part of a living community, an "ecosystem" if you will. As many here have mentioned, veal is a result of the excess production from the dairy industry. In nature, "excess production" gets eaten by predators, passing the energy up the food chain. On a farm, the animals get raised in conditions ideal for high reproductive rates, so the "excess production" becomes food for humans, we replace natural predators. Veal is the meat from calves that were culled from the herd. This makes sense both ecologically and economically. However, within that type of system, the devil is in the details. There are lots of ways this production can be harnessed without subjecting the calves to extremely stressful conditions, which of course only makes them susceptible to disease and need antibiotics, which causes all kinds of problems. My colleague who sells veal doesn't sell a lot of it, he sells the meat from animals he has culled from his small dairy and meat farm. He raises breeds that are good for both. He's a wonderful guy, worked for 10 years as a consultant to the dairy industry and finally put together a workable plan to farm the way he's always wanted too. Doesn't hurt that his wife is a vet!

Here is a link that might be useful: Rethinking veal

Sharon, what you said is true. No one can know exactly how the animals they are eatiing have been treated unless they buy directly from the person raising said animal, or have the luxury of doing what Annie does. (I hesitated to use the work luxury, because you work so very, very hard to do what you do, Annie). I have a pretty good idea that most veal and probably all of the fast food meat and eggs that's sold has come from animals treated inhumanely, which is why I won't eat them.

Years ago I read about "rose veal," which is veal that is raised in the open in the pasture, I believe. At least it's not raised in a box that's too small for it to stand up or move, which is how most veal is raised. The way most veal is raised is just plain sickening to me.

Sally

I'm glad many more people are speaking out against the way animals are treated. It is forcing the industry to change.

Ann - I am impressed that there is a farmer/butcher shop still around. Is it a small operation? Having been a vendor at the Farmer's Market for a few years I know many of the meat/poultry vendors. None of them process their own meat. They all take it to a USDA approved meat processing plants. First they have to meet government code and second they just don't have the time. Raising the animals, running the farm and bringing it to market is enough hours.

There was a farm/butcher shop in Plymouth, Minnesota until 1990. They raised their own animals. As the business grew they bought animals from surrounding farms. They still exist. I know their turkeys are local. But with the growth in sales I am not sure where the rest of their meat products come from.

Dcarch, veal really doesn't taste at all like chicken.

CC - I think he was being his usual facetious self! :-)

Everthing tastes like chicken - except chicken, these days!

I've eaten veal. Only a handful of times because it's not readily available in my area and when it is, it's very expensive. Every time that I've eaten it, the meat has been delicious.

I don't have any compunctions about eating it over any other store-bought meat, having driven past cattle feedlots, poultry & hog farms. It's all ugly and really, really stinky.

Sally, I'll keep an eye out for that 'rose veal'. We never had veal growing up, same reasons as stated (and foie gras likewise was off the table/menu) by others. I'll look for 'humane' labels as well, and research a bit.

So I guess we won't be having a veal Cook-a-long thread any time soon! LOL

For those that choose not to eat veal, thinly sliced pork cutlets or pounded chicken cutlets, work for almost all veal recipes except ones using shanks.

I haven't eaten veal in many years. Since my twenties. Once I learned how it was raised I didn't want to eat it. It isn't that remarkable. There are many diaries dotting the countryside just outside town. I have seen a few places with a few pens but not many. And they may be out of view at most dairies.

Rose veal is something I will look for.

Eileen

I haven't seen grass-fed, pastured veal sold anywhere, even Whole Foods. Must not be a market for it, at least yet.

Ruthanna, if it's coming from a co-op you can find out if it's pastured. I hear pastured has much better flavor than the bland CAFO veal.

Do y'all eat pork? The conditions for CAFO pork in this country is much worse than for veal.

I've been eating more at Chipotle since I want to support them and their Food with Integrity program. It's not 100% there, but it's a start. Even McDonald's came out last month requiring suppliers to phase out gestation pens for pregnant pigs. It's a huge start, coming from a huge company. There is hope! The pendulum seems to be coming back, slowly.

I still eat CAFO produced meats but I am trying to source more humanely-raised meat at sensible prices. Grass-fed/pastured beef is easy to find these days. But not chicken or pork - at least not here in the big city. I've cut way back on both and am eating more fish and beef as my go-to meats.

I've sourced better eggs and turned DH into a Kerrygold butter fiend. Grass-fed butter = yummy! Our goal is to live closer to the land and have access to wild-caught game like elk and pheasant, pastured meats and better eggs and dairy. Some of you have those things available already - lucky!

I either raise pigs or I buy them from a local farmer whose methods I'm familiar with. The guys want to raise pigs again this year, I normally get feeder pigs from a local 4-H kid who keeps the best of the litter for show and sells the rest to farmers to raise for pork. That way I don't have to deal with keeping them through the winter, a bit tougher to do than keeping my cold resistant cattle happy at 20 below zero.

I'm also going to raise meat chickens this year, we'll see how that goes and I'm leaning toward half a dozen turkeys while I'm at it. My nephew has agreed to kill them for a portion, I'll pluck and clean them but I cannot kill them, I don't have the stomach for it.

No slaughter is truly humane, though, it cannot be completely painless and always results in death as a final result. I can only make it as quick as possible and make their lives as comfortable and carefree as I can.

For the record, I'm not really all that much of a carnivore. I'll eat beef once a week, maybe, pork and chicken less than that. Truthfully, chicken is about my least favorite protein source next to cheese, which I seldom eat. I have fish a couple of times and the rest of the time I have eggs or something with beans or lentils. Because I grew up with meat as a daily food, it's not a treat, it's something I'm relatively apathetic about and I find I eat less of it all the time. I tend to cook meat more for Cooper than I do for myself and I think we eat too much meat, few people actually eat the 4 ounces that's a serving.

When I do eat meat, I want the farm raised stuff. Issues about humane treatment aside, I don't want the antibiotics or the hormones and there's the additional issue of what the animals were fed, which is mostly GMO corn, soybeans, alfalfa, etc. I also find commercially grown beef, pork, chicken and turkey to be bland and kind of soft and mushy, a completely different taste and texture to the stuff I'm accustomed to.

I haven't figured out how to raise my own shrimp though, and I do like that occasionally.

I think you're right, Gina, the pendulum is slowly swinging back to more humanely raised meat, locally sourced foods and organically grown stuff. In my opinion, it's a good thing.

Annie

But not chicken or pork - at least not here in the big city

Gina, check Ralphs for 'Smart Chicken'. Horrible name. Humanely raised/slaughtered.

Here is a link that might be useful: Smart chicken

Thanks Jess, that's worth a look. Another big reason to eat grass-fed is the composition of the meat - the nutrition. Grain fed beef is high in Omega 6, grass-fed-finished in Omega 3. The overall nutrition is much better.

Thanks for all your input. I was surprised at the number of responses since it still appears on so many restaurant menus.

I've known how veal is raised since I was a young girl but made the decision then to eat it and I doubt it will change after so many years of schnitzels, osso buccos, veal Oscars,calves' livers, chops, and veal stocks.

I get more of a twinge of guilt about eating mushrooms. That's an industry with truly inhumane working conditions but it doesn't get much press.

As a result of this discussion, in the future I'll ask dinner guests whose food preferences are not known if they eat veal before putting it on the menu.

Happy hunting, Gina. Grin.

Ruthanna: I get more of a twinge of guilt about eating mushrooms. That's an industry with truly inhumane working conditions but it doesn't get much press.

I'd like to know more. New thread!

It's the old joke - they treat me like a mushroom - they keep me in the dark and pile sh!t on me.

I'd be interested in knowing more about mushroom farming as well. Here in Ontario there are indoor mushroom farms. The mushrooms are grown in a manure-free compost, climate controlled, and packaged by machinery.

Smart chicken? Isn't that an oxymoron?

The rose veal thing is something I read about possibly 20 or 30 years ago. I just did a google search for rose veal, and skimming the headlines, it appears to be big in Britain. I didn't click on anything yet, as I don't have time to now.

A long time ago I was listening to a local talk radio show, back when it wasn't all politics. The host had a guest that was talking about the antibiotics found in veal. The host was surprised and interested to find out about it, because he always had a bad reaction to eating veal. Turns out he's allergic to whatever antibiotic that is used in veal calves, and there was enough passed on in the meat to affect him. This was a man that had disdain for vegetarians, so he wasn't just being soft on the guest.

Sally

[Barb: when I visited with Ruthanna and Cloudy Christine last October, local mushroom farming came up. So I took her statement as one of fact, not the good-old-stand-by joke]

I still like the joke though! :)

There are a lot of mushroom houses in my county. The compost they use contains a lot of chicken litter as well as ground corn cobs. It's sterilized by steam, which I guess is the source of the bad smell that settles on a wide area around there. So the mushrooms are growing in clean compost. It's changed frequently, and local gardeners like to use it as a soil improver.

There is no better soil than mushroom soil.

BTW, I like and eat veal. And mushrooms. Sometimes together.

Yes, veal, chickens, pigs and often cows are all raised pretty horrifically by the factory farms. What's really sad is that after being raised like that the slaughter is beyond imagination. Even some of the not bad farms still send their animals to bad slaughter houses. So, humanely raised and killed is the ideal. One day...we can hope.

Annie, have you ever considered feeding Cooper his meat raw?

Even knowing what I know, I do still eat some meat. Small servings. Not every day.

Coconut, he'll eat it raw. Frankly, I'll eat beef raw too, and sometimes do.

The food item that causes me to cringe is tomatoes. I will not buy commercially grown tomatoes after reading the reports on how the workers are treated and paid, it's basically a slave trade.

So, no tomatoes for me except during season and after that, the ones I can. It's not like the others taste good anyway. (shrug)

Annie