XL13 or XL14 Trane heat pump, R-410A or R-22 refrigerant

15 years ago

I am totally confused. our 1991 Trane heat pump, which has had no other problems, has a faulty reversing valve, about a $1000 repair so we are thinking about replacing the system. four companies gave estimates , three Trane vary from $5200 to $7500 and the Carrier was $10,000 and of course they all had different things to say. two of the Trane recommended the XL14 with the new refrigerant R-410A, one with new copper pipes (which would involve tearing apart a ceiling in a finished basement) and the other was going to flush the lines (one Trane estimator said that flushing should never be done). the third Trane recommended XL13 with the R-22 refrigerant which would not involve any changes in the cooper pipes. any suggestions as to whether XL13 or XL14 is better? and in light of the EPA's new regulations whether it is ok to buy one that uses R-22?

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Comments (10)

tigerdunes
15 years ago
this is a split system or package unit?

R-410a is the new refrigerant that I would recommend and if at all possible replace refrigerant lineset. flushing is OK but you want to verify that existing size is correct for a new system.

post model number of both outside unit and inside air handler if split system.

IMO
tlewis_hvac
15 years ago
Definitely go with the 410A system, because after this year, no one will make equipment with R22 in it. It's kind of like the R12 change in cars back in the 80s.
I agree with changing the linesets if possible. As tigerdunnes said above, make sure the copper lineset is the right size for the new unit if you plan on flushing the old copper out.
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Thanks a ton for the fast replies!! ryanhughes "Why does the Carrier unit need to be replaced?" The heat pump(outdoor condensor unit)needs to be replaced as the compressor is going. Started making terribly load noise, making the walls vibrate with this pulsating sound, extremely loud. They checked "everything" else and said it was the compressor. I was told it alone can be replaced for $1500-$1700, and hence figured it may be best to just get a new one, until I found out about all this R22 vs R410, mis-matching etc. The tech who said it needed to be replaced is from my regular AC service company who does my 2 x year prevent. maint. on the units. My parents have a 9 Seer Air handler that is going on 20 years and they replaced their condenser several years back (2002) with a 14 seer, no change to the air handler, he saw huge savings on their electric bill and has had no trouble with the unit. How is that explained? Due to the tight space where this one air handler is and poor lay out up there, it is going to be extremely costly to get down and get a new one in. May need dry wall work and reinforcement up there. Dad is adament that I do not need to change the handler, but hey, he's not an HVAC guy just someone who didn't replace and is seeing great benefit and no problems. The first HVAC guy who came yesterday said he could replace the outdoor unit with a 12 seer max (if he can find one) but not to expect much of any savings, but better to replace with a 10 seer again. ($2400) Why spend that kind of money and see no efficiencies? Having 2 more estimates on Monday. He said he could also replace just the compressor for $1500.00. This is why it seems like it may be best to take a plunge and replace everything, but really I do not have 6K. If I get another R22 outdoor unit, what happens if the air handler goes in 3 years, then what? I have to replace this new 3 year old condenser and an air handler? There went the $2400 out the door. Or are there air handlers that can handle both, just not condensers that can?
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lotr1
Original Author
15 years ago
thanks for the advice. because of the cold we had to decide fairly quickly and we did go with the 410A system. I will be sure to check the pipe size but I would rather not tear up a ceiling.
countryboymo
15 years ago
I have heard that if you take two systems that are the same other than one being R22 and the other being 410a that the 410a unit will outperform the r22 by a fairly wide margin on heating and cooling. I was told it was such a difference that if you had a 3.5ton r12 unit that you can usually replace it with a 3ton r410a system and have the same level of comfort. I know there would be a difference but I didn't think it would be that much. I do realize that on the home situation he is comparing an old r22 probably low seer system to a new r410a 13+ seer and being able to drop .5 tons and realize that some of it would probably be by SEER rating difference but over 25% drop in system size seems extreme.

If this is even partially true it makes little sense to me to buy any new r22 system.
ryanhughes
15 years ago
I disagree with the R-410A/R-22 comment. 3 tons is 3 tons, period. AHRI rates these systems, and the capacities are listed for each. A R-22 system may put out 34 mbh (thousands of btu's/hour) of cooling while a R-410A system may put out 36 mbh of cooling, or vice versa.

I have heard that for very high temperature ambient conditions, R-22 may even be a better option as R-410A is less tolerant to very high temperature operating conditions in terms of capacity drop.
garyg
15 years ago
".. a faulty reversing valve, about a $1000 repair so we are thinking about replacing the system."

$1000 to replace a reversing valve? No way. Maybe half that at best. You should have gotten more quotes.

Good luck with the new system.
countryboymo
15 years ago
Ok I wondered if it would be a wash. A 3ton r22 is 3tons just like a 3ton r410a would be 3 tons. I heard it and thought I would throw it out there. It was described to me like the days when you did retrofits on cars from R12 to R134a and got lucky with a car that would freeze you out which didn't always happen and this is not a 'retrofit' situation its buying two products... one of which is designed for R12 and another that looks pretty much identical but is designed for r410a. Big difference.
countryboymo
15 years ago
Ok I wondered if it would be a wash. A 3ton r22 is 3tons just like a 3ton r410a would be 3 tons. I heard it and thought I would throw it out there. It was described to me like the days when you did retrofits on cars from R12 to R134a and got lucky with a car that would freeze you out which didn't always happen and this is not a 'retrofit' situation its buying two products... one of which is designed for R12 and another that looks pretty much identical but is designed for r410a. Big difference.
garyg
15 years ago
"I heard it and thought I would throw it out there."

- You can't believe everything you hear, especially if it makes no sense.
countryboymo
15 years ago
I was hoping that for once that the industry would end up with a replacement that is more efficient AND more environmentally 'friendly'.

XL13 or XL14 Trane heat pump, R-410A or R-22 refrigerant

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XL13 or XL14 Trane heat pump, R-410A or R-22 refrigerant

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