The short answer: The list exists to make money for lawyers. Lots of drugs on it are effective for a variety of indications, but may have side effects that can be exploited in lawsuits (which mostly benefit attorneys). Of course, this is an herbalism forum and neither I nor anyone else has suggested that posters take prescription drugs for bladder infections. What's been pointed out is that ACV has no demonstrated effectiveness (or any mechanism by which one could imagine it being effective) against such infections. Cranberry juice, on the other hand, does have some evidence in its corner. "I have noted that tests for natural medicines printed in the peer reviewed journals use doses clearly below the theraputic dose recognized by the majority of herbalists for their studies. I noted this in tests printed in the New England Journal of Medicine, no less. This crap must stop. That it goes on at all is WHY there is a growing number of people using herbal methods. I have also noted that herbs that are usually used in a mixture with other herbs are tested alone, in a way they are not used. This happens with tests of Chinese herbs." This would be an interesting subject for a separate discussion, to include any examples of studies supposedly using suboptimal doses of herbal drugs. As to mixtures, there are in fact numerous studies looking at them. What can be problematic is when a mixture contains one herb believed to be the effective agent and the rest may or may not be filler. The only way to know if the purported effective component works is to test it separately (it could be, for example, that one or more other components of the mixture actually interfere with the active herb which might work better on its own). One old-time example is the folk remedy for heart failure that an 18th century British physician, William Withering studied, and discovered that while multiple elements in the herbal mix were unrelated to its actions on the heart, one herb (digitalis) was responsible for increasing heart contractility. That discovery paved the way for digitalis' use in general medicine (at a standardized, safer and more effective dose than one could count on in a home remedy). Chinese herbal mixtures are notorious for containing elements not listed on the label. "Contamination" (apparently deliberate) has included powerful prescription drugs (such as indomethacin and steroids) or toxic herbs like aristolochia, so that would be a major reason for being careful about using such mixtures. To get back to the cry of "They don't want you to know" (about supposedly cheap and effective home remedies): this hits close to home for me and many other health professionals who have experienced serious illness in ourselves or close family and friends. My mother (a physician) died of colon cancer. Does anyone doubt that she would have been willing to use a cheap home cure and enthusiastically promoted it to others if one existed?

I was going to post the same thread malna did and I think it answers your questions. It would seem that the taste 'might' be improved but the appearance would suffer. And yes you might as well strain the mother because the processing is going to kill it anyway. As for subbing regular Heinz apple cider vinegar in Dilly Beans, yes I do so as I much prefer its flavor over white. We use cider vinegar rather than white in most all our pickling recipes. Dave

A couple of years ago I tried the vinegar/water thing and just couldn't get past the taste. I can't even remember WHY I tried it! LOL If it were my husband, I'd make an appointment with an endocrinolgist and see what they suggest. This is the type doctor who would specialize in diabetes. Many times they will have you meet with a nutritionist and/or others who help you come up with a plan which will hopefully keep your hubby from actually becoming a diabetic. As someone else mentioned, if you hubby has any weight to lose, doing that may make all the difference in the world. Flyleft, why is vitamin controversial? I must have missed something LOL. I do know that many are deficient in this. tina

< I see that it doesn't give the amount of time to process. That is odd.> As I hinted at above that is only one of the common problems with these old, hand-me-down recipes. Vague measurements, faulty transcriptions, lack of prep and processing details, the variable acidity of vinegar then and now, and a disregard for the issues of pH and density are just a few of the reasons why the current guidelines recommend they be relegated to history rather than used. That is especially true when modern, well-tested recipes without those flaws for the same thing are available. Pear Relish But it is your choice. :) Dave PS: like Mary, I prefer cider vinegar but it is a personal taste thing so use whichever you prefer.