You know Bob, the things that stick out in my mind is I have to give you so much credit for how well you were doing and how hard you were trying with him. We kids never usually see our parents clearly and it is always easier when they too become parents of teens and so on later in their lives. Somewhere down the line he would have come full circle, or not, the choice would have been his. He probably just needed to have that one thing mentioned that would just 'click' right with him. We do though as kids need to come to realise that parents are not infalible as all humans are not. We are just people living, learning and trying to do our best. It sounds like you have done a fine job of trying to pull it all together over the years and were a caring and patient person and father to your kids. They learn that by you being supportive and caring towards them, whether you are present in the household or not, that you do care about them. You know all of this but it bears repeating. It's not the quantity of time that you spend with them but the quality. The minutes do count but not so much as the moments. Just staying involved in their life and what they are doing and what matters to them, should matter to them when they get old enough to know what really counts and they have sorted out 'Life 101' better. Bottom line is everyone just wants to feel loved for who they are and where they are at in life. Love, acceptance, unconditional love. Could you son possibly still have been on that journey of asking himself, who am I, what am I, where am I going and where does this all fit in with my life so far. It takes a great maturity to arrive at looking at your parents clearly enough to see that they faced the same set of circumstances that we all did. We can all make mistakes, miscalculations. We can all forgive, forget and move on too. We have to deal with what life is handing us and try to make the best of it with what we have to work with or go out and make it a better one. We create what our life will be. A wise man once told me that if we are forgiven, how can we not forgive also. Give yourself time to forgive yourself and let the pain go from the distance that was created by your son. It may take you some time, but give yourself the permission to fprgive all and move beyond that. Your son just wasn't up to that level of understanding yet. Given time and patience most likely he would have gotten there. All the best my friend, Lucy

Hi silversword. Thanks for the response. A PI is Public Intoxication. He was actually walking along the sidewalk with one foot on the curb, one foot off, trying to catch a cab. We live in a college town and it was a football rally night and tons of students were out (along with lots of cops to keep things in line). Don't think he was drunk - just had had a drink but the point is: why the heck would you be drinking at all if you just got a DWI 4 days earlier?? I'd be freaked out. That's why we are pretty sure he has a drinking problem. As for drugs, he's said he tried pot but didn't like it at all. Don't think there's coke or anything else involved b/c I think he would be dropping those 30+ lbs he's gained. In fact, I overheard him talking to the Assessment Counselor for that 6 week recovery class we're 'making him' go to and he said only alcohol and 'dip'. But I agree - it does sound/look like drugs. Seriously, to meet my son, you would think he was just fine. Clean cut, manners, talks intelligently - but it's all just that 'performance' he does, I think, because 'if I look good on the outside, I must be okay'. Very sad. Oh- the student loans are $30,000-private university (which we co-signed on and agreed to pay half since he planned to get a business/accounting degree - math brain -and should be making a salary to take on those loans) plus the $8000+ in credit cards plus the DWI lawyer($2500) + fines related to that. Yes, it's huge. And stressful. And unfortunately, to cope, he blows it off. And apparently drinks. He does recognize he's self sabotaging but again, he knows what to do to change and can't make himself do it. I'm thinking more depression. But he refused medication the first time around and I had to agree mainly because he drinks and I was afraid of the combination. Heavy sigh...

popi We are Christians and wanted a Christian education for our kids. What I have found out though is that many of kids at this school put themselves on a "I am a better Christian than you are" pedestal and judge very harshly students that don't follow their lead. My son is more outside of the box. He skateboards instead of playing football. Listens to harder rock "Christian" music than most and is does more his own thing. We are far from wealthy and don't run with they parents who are and who have seats on the board or contribute extra money to the school. My older daughter had the same experience and she left the school. She told me that the kids that got up on stage and professed their love for and commitment to Christ were the meanest, most two faced and hardest partying kids at the school. She never fit in either. I have a concern of being able to get him to school when the weather is bad since I will have to be driving SD10 to school if he goes else where. The drive to the school that we have chosen, should he go, is about 20 minutes without snow or ice. That is something that we have to discuss. My DH says that he will find those types of people at the other school and not like it there either. I agree that he will find those types of people there but since the school is much larger he probably won't be with them the entire day nor will the mold that he is expected to fit into be so strict. I want to meet with the principal and see what they have available to address his learning disabilities. I need to speak to his special ed teacher at his current school and get her honest opinion about it. I emailed her today but have not heard back from her. I will also talk to the super at his current school and let him know why my son would be leaving and that he should take a hard look at what is being learned there about being a Christian as apposed to what is being taught. I think it's a shame.

Why isn't this girl working? she should not be allowed to live rent free. she is clearly sleeping around and having babies with whoever offers. since her mother abandoned her and was abusive, SD is looking for love elsewhere, how sad for her children. and I suspect her father was not as excellent father as you think otherwise both children would not grow up selfish and irresponsible. she needs therapy, career counseling, education, parenting classes and kick in the butt. I take it that baby's father is not around, if you observe her being unfit mother maybe she should not have custody? I wonder if her baby is better off without her. i would start documenting how she treats her child. she is messed up and would be a pity to see her baby growing up messed up as well. something needs to be done to stop this cycle. i bet it is not the last baby either.