NO. I have "never beat the odds". For one reason only; I rarely did things that would make achieving my goals harder than it already was. I'm all about MINIMIZING the odds!

I decided NOT to have kids. I have worked full time since I was about 20. I've supported myself since I was 18, paid for college, too. I accepted that you have to do what you have to do to meet the budget for SAVINGS and expenses. I did what was required to accomplish the long term goal. I did it every week, every month, and every year. Not very glamorous.

"Beat the odds"? UNLIKELY. The more important question is why you have stacked the odds against you, and what are you willing to sacrifice/DO to see that you can extricate yourselves?

Start planning now. It is never too late. What are you taking in school? Something really practical that would add to your skills? Like if you are a secretary--those classes might be to add paralegal skills or better computer skills. That would stack the odds in your favor. I am a little surprised that you quit full time work in favor of school and part time work. That adds up to the same amount of time and effort with expenses for school added in. It would be worth it if you were taking cosmetology or some career stuff.
I don't believe that the market for outside secretarial services is what it once was. Thats because even judges on the bench use a computer directly. Many lawyers type their own briefs and letters. Email has replaced some letters. I'm not surprised you are disappointed with a home based business.
Chelone makes a good point that I hope will inspire you--people who are successful actually make conscious career and life choices. Lots of us do. We decide between spending money or time for this or that. As Las Vegas says " you can't beat the odds."

Chelone,
It was not my intention to stack the odds against myself although I admit that I have, due mainly to not being properly trained. Unfortunately, I have been repeating a cycle.

As to what I am willing to sacrifice, NOT my time with my family and what I am willing to DO -- now that my youngest will be attending school in August -- (Daycare will drop to $150 per week)I will be seeking full-time work. Spending time with my family has been the key to my family's stability and will be key to my training my kids to do things differently than I have.

It is nice that you decided NOT to have kids, but I have decided to have them and my husband and I are caring for their needs on our own as we should. We do not expect or ask for assistance from family or friends.

We are not where we want to be financially, but we have been responsible. All of our bills have always been paid on time, with no outside help.

I appreciate your taking time read my post and to comment. If only I had had your financial sensibility before I decided to have children, I wouldn't be in this mess.(I would still have my kids--just not the debt) Your post has convinced me that "beating the odds" -is LIKELY because we are doing something to extricate ourselves.

If there is anyone out there who HAS NOT gotten it right the first time, please reply.

Okay Marge and Chelone,
I think that I am being a little sensitive and hardheaded.

My back ground is in secretarial work, I have a vocational certificate in it and I will soon have a degree in the same field of study. I have 6 years of experience working in the medical office, and the rest in various other office settings.

I returned to college to get a promotion on my job at the hospital. All of the positions that I was interested in required that I have a degree. I stopped working at the hospital and started doing medical billing from home and attended school full-time. It was very hard to keep up with my children's school work, my school work, my job, and my relationship with my husband with the schedule that I had at the time.

Maybe, I should have hung in there. I don't know. I was just very overwhelmed. I thought that I was making the right decision at the time. Maybe not.

Cutebrown, for most women it only works if you have a partner who is a full-time parent, someone who automatically does childcaring and housekeeping duties without having the attitude of "I am babysitting (his own kids!) so that the wife can work/study/go to school." If he knows all the kids' teachers' names, he's on the right track. If he can help with kids' homework and does not have to ask you where the soup pot goes when he washes it without you asking, he's a real keeper. If you do not have that kind of support at home, it will be very hard to be a full time mom and a full time worker. In that case, you have to vote for your own sanity, and that may mean having less money. If hubby is not the saint that I have pictured here, talk to him about how you need him to pick up the slack or you can't do the work you want to do.

I wish I had a story to tell you, but I was never able to get pregnant. I have not had to do what you are doing. I do wish you the best, though. Thanks for the sacrifices you have made to have your kids. I need them to pay my Social Security in about 20 years! Your kids are our future, even if you and I are not related by blood.

OK, cutebrown, I'll give you some encouragement. I feel that we beat the odds. If by "odds" you mean a successful business, getting out of debt, running a family, a marriage, a business and a job all at the same time. The fundamental core of the sucess we have achieved is having a true faith in our own ability.

Self-employment take a great deal of effort, but the rewards are great also. Do just like the other people do. Get out there and hustle the clients. One service our city desperately needs is someone to help small business do Quickbooks Pro and help with the bookkeeping. While that's not exactly what you are looking at, finding a niche and a need will help you grow quickly. My DH runs his own firm and he would willingly pay for virtual secretarial services. He bought Dragon software since I pitched a fit the last time I had to type up a business valuation for him. Market yourself to small shops who don't have the time to do the things you can offer. You may have to trade babysitting with a friend for a few hours a week to get out there and market your business.

I believe if you and your husband want to do this--you can. Lay out the current money situation. Your debt is not large (even though it seems that way.) Decide if you really want to finish school and go back to the hospital job. Is your DH able to find jobs which offer health care benefits? You didn't say if he was currently employed or not. See where you need to focus your income, call the cc companies and make sure you have negotiated for the low % possible. Student loans are usually at a pretty low interest. Chip away at those debts, but make sure you are not making new ones.

Things don't always go smoothly and even when you do all of the "right" things life can be hard. I'm a teacher and during my first years, the pay was so low in Missouri that I lived for extended periods of time with no utilities and always had to work a second job. It was the pits. Boiling diapers on the stove was the pits. There were certainly periods of time that we kept the DH's business running with credit cards since the employees had to be paid. But we kept at it.

Being overwhelmed is not unusual. I don't know any woman, kids or no kids, who hasn't felt overwhelmed at times. Wearing several hats is always a juggling act. Some of us juggle easier than others. The first thing to do while you are feeling this way is to take good care of YOU. Eat well, take a walk every morning, get adequate rest at night.

Juggling kids, home and business responsibilities takes organization and effort. Nancy hit on the missing element here and that is what is your DH's current contribution to the formula. My DH and I worked opposite of each other for 12 years so that the three youngest kids weren't in daycare. I worked part-time in the mornings and he went into the office as soon as I got home. Many weekends were spent with him working if we needed him home for a week night activity. We made time for each other. My social life was pretty slow during those times. There's always give and take. I definately wasn't the PTA mom to call on at the last minute to go on a field trip, but my kids are all very independent, which was more important to me than if I went to every ball game or activity. I was a single mom with my oldest, so I just did what I had to do.

You do not have to be financially savy before you have kids. You can turn things around. We certainly have gotten almost all of our net worth while having kids. We paid off the debts and school loans while having kids. I sometimes sudder at how much. We've bought and sold numerous properties while having the kids. Frankly, we've done pretty much of everything while having kids. DH is just finishing up another degree in finance this month. I told him we are just going to wallpaper the bathroom with our degrees. He gets them for fun, I did it to get job ready.

I'm getting ready to make a change. I'm 99.9% sure that I won't be returning to teaching next month. I provide the health insurance, so this is a big, big issue for us. I'll need to bring in a net of $1,400 a month just to cover our health insurance. Not even counting my lost pay, money for taxes, retirement, etc. I'm going to have to hustle clients for a Professional Organizing business. I don't know if I'm making the right decision and there are some pretty big financial consequences if I'm wrong. I've gotten sideways with the current school district administration, so I'm not going to be able to be hired back on. That career will be over. But, I'm sure as heck never going to know until I try. So, try I will. We've really had to give it thought since our kids are ages 6, 9, 12 and 22. We will just juggle differently.

We have a pretty traditional household, which means I have most of the responsibility for the house and kids. I really never thought it would be that way, but if I want a decent meal I don't want to eat DH's cooking! I've come up a good household system by using Flylady and keeping us clean and running only takes me 45 min. a day. Being organized makes it so I don't feel overwhelmed with the day to day upkeep. This frees up my brain as well as my time.

I think if you didn't have what it took, you wouldn't even question this. You would just plod away. You're not doing that and you are looking at options. Options are always good and definately a first step. Just because you've never been a planner doesn't mean you can't change that. Time to start setting some goals. Things don't just fall in your lap. You really do have to put that effort out. Personal goals and being a mom don't have to be conflictual. You can be both. Those goals will also change depending upon the demands for your time and energy. Fluidness is very useful. What you need to do right now is very different from what you'll need or be able to do in 15 years.

I don't know of anyone who has really "gotten it right" the first time. We all make financial mistakes. Some of us even have to have some practice on marriages before we "get it right." We make wrong choices and live with the consequences. We do better next time. When you know better you do better, but that school of hard knocks is definately a good teacher. Feel free to email me through gardenweb if you'd like.

Gloria

This internet thing is a lot of fun and can be very inspiring. Posts can often be read in a couple of ways... they can sound sharp and critcal, or they can be read as direct, with a bit of humor. Still though, you did say you were feeling low and I should perhaps have been more mindful of that. Either way, it's not a big deal.

Many of my friends have kids and they struggle with daycare/caretaking just the way you do. I see the strain every day; a kid is sick and one parent misses work and for some of them that puts a financial squeeze on the family and causes friction at work. My own choice allowed me to sidestep that particular issue but I face something similar now that my elderly mother lives with us. I missed work not too long ago because she was sick; and I need my paycheck as much as the next person.

A home-based business (any business!) is a lot of work. I have a part-time one, too. And it's true, you do have to find your niche and you have to establish a few customers who in turn pass your name along to their friends. My business is completely word of mouth and by appointment only. It took years to get it to a level that was predictably steady, and I did things I didn't really want to do to get to where I wanted to be (bridal work! blech!). You have to hang in there. And you have to continually add to your skills.

You and your husband have a lot of balls to juggle. Jobs, kids, money... . Do you have regular "board meetings" with your husband? just you and him. We do this monthly. We do the bills, we go over our statements, we assess our situation and talk about how things are working for us. Some of his ideas helped me look at my own business differently and when he was unhappy at work I was able to help him look at it more objectively. We put together a plan to allow him to leave his job if he wanted.

It's important to look at the "worst case scenario"; doing so allows you come up with a plan and it takes a lot of the fear and tension out of things. At least it does for me.

cutebrown,

I offer you my congratulations for having made it thus far.

And for your growing concern as to how to manage the various aspects of your lives as family well.

Having had experience in the nedical field, does this include preparing billing statements from docs. to the various insurers? I'm sure that is a big issue, for many.

No doubt many have their own office staff do most of it, but would there be a way that you might help at times of overload, etc.?

I hope that your husband sees that he has as much responsibility as you to ensure that all of the necessary stuff in the family gets done, e.g. washing, vacuuming, etc.

Was it you or someone else that said that they wouldn't want to eat hub's cooking? There isn't any rule that says that such people can't learn to cook - you females weren't born full of that knowedge, now, were you? Someone had to put up with your early crude attempts, no doubt.

As someone said a while ago when another person had said that, early in their marriage, she'd been unwilling to put up with her husband's rather crude attempts at cooking, the listener figured that the originating lady had let her husband con her - and avoid a lot of legitimate family responsibilities, over the years.

It seems to me, as one who is somewhat dependent on retirement pension, that I have a vested interest in people having children now, for as another poster said, they're the ones who will be supporting part of our pension payments in a few years - and we have a large crowd of Boomers who will soon be retiring and putting more holes in the rain-barrel of social security, while there will be fewer workers adding those precious raindrops.

It seems to me that subsidies for daycare make a lot of sense.

Also, we have tougher days ahead.

We've let our school system deteriorate, and our kids seem to have shortfalls in terms of motivation: their scoring in relation to kids in a number of other countries have been dropping, even though the school system in many of those areas leaves things to be desired.

The U.S. and other Western nations have held many of the patents, but many are being issued in a number of other countries, these days.

We have let our research funding drop off, as well - and our kids/grandkids will deal with negative results from that, later.

Not only that - people in various areas of the world work for $20. (or less) per day, so they'll continue to siphon jobs from our area, where many expect to earn $20./hour.

The corporations have been fairly successful at erasing those nuisances called duties at borders. Which means that our people have to compete more and more directly with low wage (and working conditions) economies in various areas of the world.

Good wishes to you and your husband, cutebrown, as you revamp your ways of operating your family in order to make things work better for everyone.

ole joyful

Yes, you can beat the odds but it will take a lot of hard work.

Take a bookkeeping class at your local community college. Then go to H&R Block and take a basic tax course. The IRS and State give free tax seminars for small businesses.

Then you can add basic taxes and bookkeeping to your skill set.

The economy tanked in Mass. in the early 1990s. Many of my neighbors lost their homes. There was no work unemployment was 25% in my area.

I was able to support myself and son and go back to college and earn a Master's in Physics and Bach. in Computer Science. doing bookkeeping and taxes out of the house part time.

I went door to door in my free time to businesses and word of mouth took care of things once I got going.

You can also take a class in basic web page design at the local community college. The community colleges are much cheaper than the regular ones.

To all,

Thank you all for your kind and insightful words. I really appreciate everything that has been said. Some of the comments were very sobering to me.

I am not feeling as low as I was. In fact, I am feeling hopeful--even encouraged. I have applied for a position at a company where I know someone in management. I should have a good chance of getting hired there.

I will hang on to my business. I really enjoy building and working with websites. I think that I will focus on this aspect of my business because it is something that I enjoy and can work on after hours.

I would love to be able to work outside of the home and to pursue my business with the full support of my DH, but I must accept that this may not ever happen. Hopefully, he will one day see "my success" as "OUR SUCCESS" and not "his failure".

May I suggest: learning some frugal skills. My husband and I got very late starts (long time in graduate school, in low-paying fields, did not start working till age 30, no kids till 35plus). Even so, we are fine financially, thanks to the good frugal skills learned from families. There are many, many books available--if you cut your spending, you can pay off cc debt, etc. Saving money is as valuable as earning money (and less stressful!)

Amoretti has brought up a topic near and dear to my heart. It's about clearly defining the line between "need" and "want". Knowing what we absolutely have to have to get through a month is "need". Everything else is "want". You have to cover the "need" before you may even begin considering "want". And SAVINGS is factored into our "need" category. But I'll leave this topic for now. :)

I mentioned that I missed work when Mum was sick. I missed two days in a row (and this is our busy season!). I felt terrible, I work for a very small business and when I'm "missing" the shop suffers! but I had to be home to take care of Mum. I worked in my own shop, instead. I did the work I'd normally do when I get home from "work". I was able to keep an eye on Mum, minister to her needs, and know that she was OK.

THAT'S why I like having a home-bases business. I felt bad about having to shortchange my employer but I had something else to do to defray the "loss". I worked late the remainder of the week and gave a Saturday to maintain the shop's schedule. This is what I LOVE about working for a small shop and having a home business... I "lost" money, but not much... and I was able to work with my employer to keep things on the up and up.

Home based businesses require flexibility and my employer knows I have one... she's "cool" with what I need to make my life "work". It's not easy to get everything organized and every day is a challenge to keep both on an even keel.

I sure hope you will keep up informed of your efforts and SUCCESS.

correct me if i am wrong, but you say daycare costs 260.00 a week, and you only bring in maybe 100.00 a week? it seems to me that you woul dhave more time with family, and less bills, if you quit school and work and just stayed home with your kids. once the kids start back to school, then take a part time morning job to cover any extras.

my wife and i WISH we could afford for her not to work, but sadly right now we require very penny we can get due to medical bills.

Hi Davidandkasie,

My daycare expenses will soon be reduced to $150, because all of the kids will be attending public school. I have been working from home for the past year because daycare was so expensive. I did quit the job after I realized that my take home pay was not very much.

My husband wishes that the same as you. He grew up in a one income family;therefore, It's hard for him to accept the idea of me working outside the home. My background is a little different; my mother and both grandmothers had to work.

He has lost his job twice, since we've had the kids and I wasn't able to cover the expenses with the small income that I was bringing in.

My objectives for working are to pay off our debt, save money, and keep myself marketable.

Since posting my last message, I have modified my business approach and am using my connections to find a better paying job if my business doesn't pick-up soon.

I appreciate the suggestion.

Best Regards,

Cutebrown

Hello again cute brown,

I am troubled that your husband looks upon your success as his failure.

I hope that he may come to appreciate that your family is a unit, and when one improves their skills, wisdom, empathy or whatever, the family as a whole becomes that much more effective and able to cope with this complex and ever-changing world.

My thoughts and hopes - yes, and prayers - go out to you.

Good wishes for better understanding in the coming days.

ole joyful

P.S. Did your husband feel sure that he was appreciated at home? Were his achievements understood and affirmed?

Does your husband feel somewhat unable to cope, inferior?

o j

If it helps, we had a hard time financially early in our marriage. Dh was in graduate school and we became pregnant. I would only work part time because I didn't want to put my baby in day care full time. Lotso debt, yucky stressful time.

Dh now practices his profession and teaches, so there is an income stream from two sources. I got an RN/BSN (2.5 years) and can work flexible hours-- not stellar pay ($27/hour) but not bad. Nursing is great for dovetailing with a partner's schedule. I am working 3 days per week at this point but hope to cut back to 2 to have more time with our three children. Friend of mine is going to LPN school (18 mos) in order to improve her income/options.

Best of luck to you!

Have you considered doing daycare for OTHERS' kids? If you're home w/ your kids anyway, why not take in a few more? Or else, trade kid-watching w/ another parent you know, so that you each have some free time for work, school, whatever.

And your DH should get w/ the century. Women don't have to spend their lives at home anymore. Men whose wives work aren't failures.

No one else said this but I will. Freeze those credit cards in a milk jug of water NOW. That way they will be there in dire emergencies but won't be there when temptation strikes. There should be nothing new entering that house until that debt is paid off and I hate to think of how many years that will be. Cash only! That means a lean Christmas and birthdays. Hubby needs to be working and if it means flipping hamburgers then flip like crazy! Don't let him drag you down with him. I have a friend whose hubby lost his job and was downgraded to vacuum cleaner salesman. It threw him down for a little while until he realized he could be the best vacuum salesman in the force. Guess who owns his own store now?
Check out school jobs - they often pay better than the private sector and you will be off summers when the kids are.
Read the Tightwad Gazette books (don't buy them new!). I will send the first one to you if you send me your address. They will change your life. Hugs, you can get through this. Kathy

To all,

Thanks for all of your great suggestions! Things are REALLY looking up. I haven't heard anything from the company where I applied for the job, but my connection has put in a good word with Human Resources on my behalf.

**My business has taken an unexpected turn.** I think that I may have found my niche. I was once an office manager for an insurance agency and I am now offering my services to Independent Insurance Agents. I currently have 3 clients and the prospect of a 4th. The potentials for growth in this market appear promising.

Kathy, thanks for your suggestion to read the Tightwad Gazette. I once owned the 1st one and I don't have it any more. I consider myself to be "reasonably" thrifty, but as mentioned by amoretti, I need to brush up on my frugal skills. I now realize that I may have to become more "ruthless" in my pursuit of frugality. The advice that I have received here and that I have read under the "money saving tips" is very enlightening. My husband and I definitely have room for improvement.

I have also managed to get my DH to see that I really need him in order for my business to be a success, and that the two of us working together towards the same goal will help our family to be more financially successful. I am now beginning to feel his support.

Thanks for your hugs and words of encouragement. I think that this forum is one of the coolest things that I have found this year!

I'm glad things are looking up for you both!

One day you will look back and smile at how broke you used to be. I remember when the thought of ever owning a good car or my own house seemed like an impossible dream fAAAAAAAAAAAr in the future.

I just wanted to jump in here. I don't know what state you live in, but medical billing is a sought after vocation here in NY. If you contact private doctors in your area, the odds are high they need help. Billing insurance companies has become so difficult and time consuming, most private practices need extra help and will hire out to someone working out of their home.
I know, I fell into it by accident. No real training or computer skills, I learned from an experienced woman who was working on her own out of her house.
There are so many doctors looking for help, at least in this area. I would look into it.
Jane

Hey, cutebrown -

Don't know if you'll get this late posting, but - keep those kids and your DH first place! If work interferes with a listening ear for them right after they get home, or with helping them with their learning skills, then do what you have to do - move further out, whatever, to be able to keep that priority time with them. Your instincts are correct, and I wish you the very best!

Yes, CuteBrown, You can beat the odds. No one knows better than you why you are where you are right now. That means that only you can really understand what it is going to take to turn it around. Hind sight is 20/20. Keep working and keep caring for your family. You may not make the Fortune 500, but you will know that you've done the right thing.

Focus on your goals and each day try to do one thing to move you closer. It WILL happen.

Cutebrown,
Is there an after school program for the kids so they wouldn't have to go to daycare at all if you were to work outside the home? The schools around here have them where the kids can go and stay until about 5:30 I think.

Since you have worked at an insurance office and also have the training in billing insurance companies that should really help you to get your foot in the door. I worked with a lady that went to school to learn medical billing so she could work at home but she never could get her business off the ground so she went back to school for a nursing degree.

It sounds like you're getting started. Just don't give up, knock on lots of doors and it will happen.

Hi again cuterbrown,

I'm glad to hear that things are looking up for you.

Also that you feel better understanding of the situation on your husband's part.

You are a team, working together to build good things for your family.

Come back to talk whenever you feel like it - folks here will be there for you, as you've found already.

Good wishes for the coming days.

ole joyful

P.S. As more understanding and acceptance happens in your family - you truly will become "cuter".

o j