Expensive Bread Baking Toy

16 years ago

Does anybody have one of these? I've been lusting after it for about five years.

I just placed an order with KA & there it was...tempting me yet again. Whatya think? Better bread? No difference than with just a stone? Better chicken? Better biscuits?

Or, just marketing hype?

/tricia

Here is a link that might be useful: Hearthkit

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (35)

teresa_nc7
16 years ago
Couldn't you make your own with a pizza stone and some fireplace bricks? Also, whose going to be around if you want to take it out and make some cookies or a cake? Those are the questions I'd be asking myself.

Biscuits are in for such a short time, I don't see how this set-up could improve biscuits. Now....pizza.....at real high temps....it might be worth it.
lsr2002
16 years ago
I can't believe I'm responding here, me the oh so newbie baker of simple recipes! But I am practical and do have an opinion.

Remember when someone, LucyNY ?, posted about using a baking stone under and on a shelf above pizza and how great the results were? That might be something to try,

Also, I have read in more than one place on the net, about using a LARGE overturned terra cotta flower pot, bulb pot shape so it is wider than it is deep, preheated along with your stone, over what you are baking on the stone. You can plug the hole in the pot with tin foil or not depending on whether you want to retain moisture or let it escape.

I think I would try one or both of these methods first (neither should be more than about $30. if you have to buy them) and then if you think the Hearthkit will give you still better results - go for it.

Lee
Related Discussions
covering bread while baking
Q
Comments (30)
Dcarch, I can't say about all Chinese cooking - it's a big place - but we never had baked bread when I grew up. Buns were steamed and pancakes were fried in oil. Although, we had almond cookies and I suppose they were baked, but you didn't make those at home, you bought them. There was never any western-style bread at home, and I don't recall ever seeing dough ''rising'' or any mention of yeast. I do not know why this is so, but one reason may be that the typical Chinese home didn't have an oven. Just burners. I think this may be fairly typical in Asia, still - I think I read that in an article on Japanese home kitchens. So as far as home cooking goes, there's a lot of frying, boiling, steaming, braising - but not a whole lot of baking in a rack in an oven as we do it in the US. Restaurant cooking is different, there are roasted dishes, although often they are spit roasted. Another difference may have to do with wheat vs rice flour, but I can't say. We did use wheat flour at home, I don't know if that was something my grandmother learned after she came to the US. I can't ask her - she is 101 1/2 years old, still in good shape but not really up for a detailed discourse on cooking, you know. But I will ask my aunt and report back. Remember, again, China is big, we came from a little bit of it (Shanghai area) so what I think I know about Chinese home cooking may be completely wrong to someone whose family came from another part of China.
...See More
Baking bread etc on granite
Q
Comments (45)
Thanks for all the input and ideas not many if any negatives. I'm sure if there were some it would have come out. I have done the lemon and oil test on a little piece of the granite (30 mins). No mark no stain nothing. It is resined ( coating on the side). So we should be good to bake our brains out..... OK I started this thread and I disappeared from the picture. Well we and yes I do me DW and I have been working on and off for most of the week....On a Ukrainian Christmas dinner for 22 people. It is just not Ukrainian http://www.religionfacts.com/christianity/holidays/christmas.htm Kutya (wheat) Borcht (Beet Soup) with stuffed mushroom min perogies Salmon Shrimp Herrings Perogies (potato and cheese, saurkraut, blueberries and prunes) Cabbage Rolls Mushroom gravey with 4 types of mushrooms with the addition of dried mushrooms Added some saute porkchops (for those that just need to have meat) dessets and coffee etc. Oh did I forget clean-up...good friends always help. all the time we were working,serving and cleaning up was wishing and thinking about our redo.
...See More
Baking using a bread machine
Q
Comments (17)
lyfia - #1. Along with your new Zo, I'd also suggest a copy of the book, "Bread Machines For Dummies" by Glenna Vance and Tom Lacalamita. When I give bread machine classes I give this book to my students. It will give you a wealth of basic and advanced information, as well as being filled with lots of great recipes. I've never had a recipe fail out of this book. #2. Read the manual that comes with your machine and use some of the recipes in it. These recipes are designed for this bread machine and tend to be successful for newbies. #3. When converting your traditional recipes, you need to be careful how much flour there is in the recipe. The Zo V-20 and X-20 have a 5-cup flour capacity if you are going to bake in it. If you are mixing dough in it, you can use more flour than that. #4. ALWAYS check the condition of the dough during the first 5-minutes (or so) of kneading and adjust it accordingly. Don't be afraid to raise the lid and check the dough during the mixing/kneading stage. The dough should be formed into a very soft, sticky ball. If the dough is sticking to the sides or the bottom of the pan, you need to add more flour (1-2 T. at a time). If the dough is crumbly and not forming a ball, you need to add warm water. It is better to err on the side of a wet dough than a hard stiff dough. #5. If you choose to make a small 1# loaf of bread, I'd suggest you NOT bake it in the bread machine. The pan is designed to bake twice that amount and a 1# loaf is going to be really wide and not very high if baked in the machine. Choose 1.5 or 2 pound loaves if you bake in the machine. I generally make a 2#+ amount of dough and make it into two loaves. Or I'll make one loaf and use the remaining dough for 6 hot dog or 6 hamburger buns, 6 sticky pecan rolls, or an 8" pan of dinner rolls - all from one recipe of dough. #6. When baking outside the bread machine, I scale the dough (weigh it on a kitchen scale) to make sure I place it in the correct size bread pan, or if I need to divide the dough into two loaves they will weigh the same amount, raise and bake in the same amount of time. Failed bread recipes is often from using the wrong size pan for the amount of dough. I also scale the dough for dinner rolls, burger and hot dog buns so they are the same size and will raise and bake in the same amount of time. Jumbo size pan - 10x4-1/2" - 4-5 c. flour = 2+ pounds of dough Quick bread pan - 9x5" - 4 c. flour = 2# Standard bread pan - 8-1/2x4-1/2" - 3 c. flour - 1-1/2 # Medium pan - 7-1/2x3-1/3" - 2-1/2 c. flour = 1# Small pan - 5-3/4x3-3/4" - 1-1/2 c. flour = 8-ounces #7. If you use the quick cycle on your bread machine, you will need to use a fast-acting brand of yeast (SAF-Instant, Quick-Rise, Rapid Rise, or Bread Machine Yeast). Active Dry Yeast will not work properly in the quick cycle. I keep two kinds of yeast on hand to accommodate bread machine recipes - SAF-Instant and Active Dry Yeast. If I use the fast-acting SAF-Instant in a recipe that calls for Active Dry Yeast, I reduce it by 25%. The recipes in the ZO manual will call for one amount if using a fast-rising yeast, and another amount if using active dry yeast. Many bread machine cookbooks will have the different amounts for each type of yeast. #8. The bread machine is great for a baking marathon. I fill the pan and set the machine to "quick dough". As soon as the dough has finished kneading I remove the dough from the pan and place it in a dough-rising bucket. Load the pan with the next recipe and do the same thing. I can quickly make 3 or 4 recipes using this method. The trick is using the bread machine for mixing and kneading ONLY, but NOT for the rising. If you pre-measure everything, you can have a recipe kneaded every 20 to 25-minutes, or so. #9. Add "chunky" stuff (raisins, nuts, dry multi-grain cereal blends, etc.), at the "add-in" beep, otherwise the rough edges will cut the gluten strands of the dough and you'll have a short, squatty loaf. If you add raisins before the add-in beep, they will be pulverized during the kneading and blended into the bread. #10. Have fun!!! Bread is very forgiving, but also very humbling, so expect a few failures and a bit of a learning curve to get the hang of using a bread machine. -Grainlady
...See More
Trouble baking gluten free bread.
Q
Comments (6)
I've done a little gluten free baking, and I've had some times where the loaves are reasonable looking, and others where they were mishapen. I think it helps to beat the batter longer. But I also think it is very difficult to produce a gluten free loaf that really looks like a wheat-based loaf. They just aren't as pretty and don't rise as high. I only eat GF bread occasionally--and usually just as toast. I haven't made a loaf that I could really use very well for sandwiches. I think the foccacia or wrap recipes work better. There may be more experienced GF bakers who will have tips on getting better results, and I would be grateful to hear them too!
...See More
triciae
Original Author
16 years ago
Teresa, KA says to leave it in the oven even for cakes, cookies, biscuits, meat, etc. I've got convection but this thing really fascinates me. The bricks is a good idea but it would take so much room on the sides of my oven that a full size cookie sheet wouldn't fit? KA also has another expensive neat raised baking stone for BBQs...pizza, anyone?

/t

Here is a link that might be useful: BBQ Thingy For Pizza
triciae
Original Author
16 years ago
Lee, that's a great idea about the bulb pot! I'm going to drag out my third rack & see if there'd be enough height. I use one rack on the bottom for a pan to hold ice cubes then the second rack for the stone so I'd have to use the very upper slot for the third rack...off to measure.

/t
fotomat1
16 years ago
I use a stone...3/4 inch thick..20x17..and I will go head to head with anyone as far as crust on bread..I think the hearth kit is a bit over the top..Steam is what makes the perfect crust...as far as results other than bread $220 plus shipping is a lot.Good luck
fotomat1
16 years ago
http://www.bakingstone.com/faq.php

Link to good BakingStone site that describe how to make your own Hearth Oven for half the price.
triciae
Original Author
16 years ago
Lee, I don't have enough room for the pot unless I don't use the bottom rack for the ice cubes. :(

Guess I'll wait until my semi-annual trip to KA in May & have them do a demonstration of the hearthkit in their test kitchen. That's a great thing about KA...they will demonstrate all of their products. When I purchased my Magic Mill, I was in the store literally all day long experimenting with half a dozen different mixers. We were sending bread dough home with customers! lol

They've carried this product for a long time now. If they didn't believe in it I don't think they'd continue to sell it. I'll report back after I've seen it in action. I should have done it in October but with my jaw/teeth situation I just wasn't too interested in baking at the time.

Maybe, I can get other CF New Englanders interested in a group field trip to KA in May???

/t
lsr2002
16 years ago
Tricia, I'm really happy to hear that your jaw/teeth are allowing you to think about baking again.

Two more thoughts - first, the overturned pot sort of replicates baking in a closed Dutch oven and theoretically uses moisture from the dough trapped in the enclosed space to create steam so maybe you don't need the ice cubes. Second, if you used warm/hot water instead of ice, could you use a small pan to hold the water at the edge of your stone?

I'm sure that the Hearthkit works well and couldn't agree more that KA would not carry it if it did not. BTW, doesn't KA also sell a baking cloche? Just checked and they do - the site says "Put the pan in the oven, cover it with the lid, and steam generated by the baking bread emulates a steam-injected oven, making the crispiest, crackliest crust (and moist, chewy interior) that's every home baker's goal."

I'm really enjoying this thread. I'm sorry I live so far from KA - I would love to go and try out things.

Lee

Here is a link that might be useful: Baking Cloche
lucyny
16 years ago
Trica

Few months back I did an experiment w/2 baking stones, OMG! the results were incredible. I place one stone on the lowest rack setting in the oven w/the other stone sitting 2 spaces above. Heated the stones approx. 30-40 min @450 degress, placed pizza on the bottom stone, absolutely wonderful results. And not to leave out bread, WOW, that's all I can say.

Do not use the upper stone, it's way to hot up there, you'll be disappointed w/the results.

Here's a photo of a recent pizza w/the 2 stone method:

Lucy
thistley
16 years ago
I'm a newbie to this group but, I have a baking cloche given to me by my wonderful sister for a Christmas present. It truely does make the "crispiest, crackliest crust" and the best bread that I've ever baked! Just my two cents worth.
Laurie M.
grainlady_ks
16 years ago
When it comes to kitchen "toys", I enjoy indulging myself, but the Hearth Kit WASN'T one of them - and I bake all our bread and thought I had a good excuse why I needed one. I thought it over for a long time before deciding NO.

I got the stoneware covered bakers (Lee included the link above) - the Superstone La Cloche (cooking bell) by Sassafras and the French Bread baker (by the same company). I got mine from Amazon.com - less expensive than KA.

I have a problem cranking my oven up to 450Â°-500Â°F and a very L-O-N-G preheat. I'm such a cheapskate and just wouldn't waste the energy it takes. I'll bake a panned loaf in my Sharp Convection/Microwave oven in 20 minutes with NO preheating - especially in the summer. I can't justify the waste of energy involved in using a hearth kit, which has nothing to do with the performance of them.

The Covered Bakers perform very well and can be used for more than just bread - they use less energy because you bake at a much lower temperature, don't require the long preheat, and get similar results.

For REALLY great testimonies about the hearth kit, click on the link below at Pleasant Hill Grain. As you read through the article there's a link to testimonies by some people I really admire, such as Thom Leonard - a TRUE baking EXPERT from around here.

-Grainlady

Here is a link that might be useful: Hearth Kits plus Testimonies
triciae
Original Author
16 years ago
I have a Romertopf baking dish...unglazed clay. Seems like the same thing as the baking cloches. Bread sticks to my Romertopf like concrete. Seriously, you have to chizzle (sp?) it off the sides/bottom of the pan. So, I've never given serious thought to that cloche KA sells. Maybe, based on Laurie's post, I should take another look.

BTW, HI Laurie! Welcome to the CF! Glad to have you! Question...do you soak your cloche before using it?

I like the idea of two stones, maybe. Lucy, do you leave both stones in your oven all the time? I don't want to be heaving one in/out all the time.

I'm being somewhat difficult because I like the Hearthkit. :( But, I won't spend that much money. Maybe, I'll try the brick thing & if that makes an appreciable difference in both breads & meat...then I can justify to myself the couple hundred bucks??? ;-)

Lee, yes I'm making real progress with the jaw/teeth. I had an appointment last Saturday & the new wrench worked. I've got the healing caps off & am ready for impressions! Yeah...

/tricia
triciae
Original Author
16 years ago
Grainlady,

ROFL, now you've done it...the testimonials are just what I wanted to read! I was looking for enablers & you've provided those in spades! But, you've also made me feel bad about cranking my oven to 500 degrees. :( Do you have to preheat the Hearthkit that high? Yeah, probably, huh?

Oh well, I've resisted purchasing this toy for five years. Guess it won't hurt me to just continue drooling over it. I was just looking for a new toy since I know bread baking is again going to be happening around here soon. Can't get excited about a new pan...

/t
thistley
16 years ago
Hi Tricia, thanks for the welcome. :) About the cloche, no I don't soak it at all. In fact the manufacturers reccommend that you grease or oil it before the first couple of uses to make it non-stick. I'll bet your Romertopf would work just as well if you greased it. Then I dust it with either cornmeal or wheat bran. It works wonderfully! Also, NO soap in washing, just water and a "scrubby", one of those nylon or plastic thingys.
Laurie M.
shambo
16 years ago
Forgive my ignorance, but do you preheat a cloche? If so, how high a temperature and for how long? Also, how heavy is a cloche? I've really resisted the temptation to make the famous no knead bread because I'm afraid of using a horribly hot and horribly heavy enameled dutch oven, trying to get the dough into it and then the bread out of it.

Thanks for you input.

Sue
triciae
Original Author
16 years ago
Sue, my Romertopf says to always put in a cold oven...so I wonder about that with the cloche. I always preheat for bread. Maybe, grainlady or Laurie will pop back in & answer for us?

As to the enameled cast iron. Yep, they're heavy but nothing sticks to them so getting the bread out is easy. Just dump the pan over on its side and the bread will fall out onto your rack. I do grease mine for bread baking but I'm not even sure that's necessary.

/tricia
lsr2002
16 years ago
Tricia! Look what is in my oven! Well I just took it out but still it was there at 3:15. I had one pound six ounces of the basic Art. in 5 dough inside on parchment.

I did soak it and I started in a cold oven, convection bake, set at 500, automatically dropped to 475. I'll be back when it cools.

Lee
grainlady_ks
16 years ago
/tricia - Yes, you preheat the oven for the Cloche. The recipe for the Basic Italian Bread is 400Â°F, and for the Crusty Country Loaf in the Cloche, it's 450Â°F and reduce the heat to 400Â°F after 15 minutes. Sure beats preheating the oven for an hour at 500Â°F for a hearth kit! Which is a common complaint about hearth kits.

Cold oven baking - it's just not as common as preheating for bread. I should know why, but don't right off the top of my head.... For every "rule" in bread making, you'll find a method blows the rules all to heck.

-Grainlady
teresa_nc7
16 years ago
I have frequently baked bread starting it in a cold oven and it turned out just fine. Floss and Stan Dworkin in their book "Bake Your Own Bread...and be Healthier" were my "teachers" when I first learned to make bread. "It is basic to Method breads (referring to their new method) that they start in a cold oven; in this way the yeast is given a last chance to grow before baking kills it off. However the dough continues to rise even after the yeast is dead - the heat expands the bubbles that have already been made."

They state further that if your recipe does not say to bake in a preheated oven, it is fine to start in a cold oven. IMO, preheating is more important to thin doughs such as pizza, focaccia, flatbreads, English muffins, etc. than it is for bread loaves in standard loaf pans.

In more recent years I have found that using an instant read thermometer is the best tool to insure that I don't underbake or overbake bread dough. A temp of 190F for regular loaf breads and 200F for artisan free form loaves are my standard measurements. If the temp is not up, I just stick the bread back in the oven for another 5 minutes, then check again. This way I do not have dried out bread or soggy-in-the-middle bread.

Teresa
triciae
Original Author
16 years ago
Thanks for all of the tips, pictures, & info on cold-start baking. I'm realizing that I'm pretty set that artisan bread should start hot with a quick burst of steam to get that thin, crackly crust. With the kids grown, I rarely bake bread in a pan since DH & I are not big sandwich eaters.

Lee, I'm anxious & looking forward to seeing a picture of your bread baked in the Romertopf. The parchment paper was a great idea. I know what happens without it & it's not a pretty sight!

I'm starting to get excited about baking. Since I haven't eaten bread in over a year, I still don't have much of an appetite for it; but the actual baking is sounding like fun again. I placed an order yesterday with KA to restock my pantry.

I'll bake off more of my 5-Minute dough tonight if DH decides to drive through the storm. If not, then I'll bake tomorrow.

/tricia
kframe19
16 years ago
$220 for THAT?

Who the hell are they kidding!

Go down to Home Depot or Lowes and get your self a couple of large, unglazed quarry tiles and a couple of firebricks and build your own oven inside the oven.

The cost will be about $30 or so.
femmelady
16 years ago
I have the Hearth Kit and absolutely love it. I too yearned for it for a long time before taking the plunge about 3 years ago. I leave it in my lower oven all the time. We also have a round pizza stone but I wanted the full "surround" of the hot stones. My breads bake up beautiful and crisp on the outside. I will spritz water into the oven 2 or 3 times within the first minute of putting the bread in, per the instructions from The Bread Baker's Apprentice. The water steams up off that stone like crazy! And we also have pizza night where we heat the stone to 500 for the crispest best Italian style pizza ever. I like the bottom of my pizza crisp and this will do it! Although it is expensive, I highly recommend it. It's VERY heavy though. You slide the bottom stone in and then the sides slide into grooves. Not something you want to take in and out all the time, that's for sure.
triciae
Original Author
16 years ago
femmelady...you are the person I was looking for!

So, do you also like it for things other than bread products like chicken, roasts, etc.? Also, how about lower heat, long cooking time stuff like baked beans? How about more delicate things like cookies/cakes? Do you like it for that as well...

I can't be lifting it in/out of the oven so I've hoping it works for all types of oven cooking. I've had an oven stone for ages but the Hearthkit looks to me like it really would give better results.

Hmmm, in rereading your post it sounds like you have double ovens? I have a range. Would you still recommend it? Thanks for your post!

/tricia
femmelady
16 years ago
I bake many things in the lower oven (yes, we have double), especially all my breads of course and cookies, pies, cakes. We've done chicken in there on high heat which makes the skin really crispy and the inside moist and juicy. I love a chicken done that way. I don't specifically recall braises but I would think they would do fine. I do use my top oven more unless I'm seeking out the hearth for a reason, but that dry heat is going to do well with so many things. A braise like beans is going to be a closed vessel which I picture doing well too. Now I'll have to try it to see.

You can see pictures of my breads at my older web site. You'll need to scroll down the frame on the left to around the middle to see the breads.

You should get it! I'm so devilish!
femmelady
16 years ago
Oh, in particular, look at this photo of Yorkshire Puddings at their prime inside the Hearth! These are souffles really - incredible!

{{gwi:1492390}}
triciae
Original Author
16 years ago
OK, I'm convinced! I took one look at those Yorkshsires & picked up the phone to KA. I'll lower the thermostat another 2 degrees to make up for the preheating!!

I went with KA even though their $20 more just because I'm a loyal person. They've been very good to me over the past nearly two decades so I'll stick with them. How exciting. It's going to take about 10 days for shipping. I'm excited...a new toy!! What to bake first?

/tricia
femmelady
16 years ago
I'm home today because of the ice so now I want to go bake something! I'm happy for you. It's a very fun item to have. I know you can go to Lowe's but this is designed for your oven and the curves on the side are designed for convective heat. It's wonderful. Enjoy!
lsr2002
16 years ago
Tricia, I'm excited for you. I think you thought it through and made the right decision.

Femmelady, your Yorkies are incredible and I loved looking at your other breads. WOW just WOW!

Here is the bread in the clay baker. In general this batch of AB in 5 did not rise as much as the previous batch. I think it is because I could only buy AP flour at the store I was at and my earlier batch was made with bread flour.

Femmelady, if you bake today, please share a photo.

Lee
triciae
Original Author
16 years ago
Well bummer! Guess I wasn't destined to have this. I just got off the phone with King Arthur. They phoned to tell me the company has suddenly & without notice gone out of business & my order wasn't shipped. So, KA has refunded my purchase price.

/tricia
lsr2002
16 years ago
Oh darn, I've wondered several times if you had it yet. And you are right the company is gone from Amazon, and it's own site is closed for "upgrading". I even checked eBay - nothing there. I sorry for you and curious about what happened to make them disappear in the night like that.

Here is a link with photos to a possible alternative with quarry tiles.

Lee

Here is a link that might be useful: Quarry tile oven liner
proudmamato4
16 years ago
That's too bad. Just saw this thread and was very intrigued. Let us know if you find an alternative!
Nancy
femmelady
15 years ago
Tricia,

I just logged in and was going to ask you about the kit. If they are no longer selling it, how come King Arther is still listing it on their web site? Unless they don't maintain their web site. Your link at the top still works fine.

Bummer!!!!!
lyndaluu2
15 years ago
It's probably for the best that's an expensive toy....
I use a stone to cook my breads and biscuits, etc and they come out very crisp on the outside.

Try building you own like kfram said. Less expensive and will work just as well.

Linda
proudmamato4
15 years ago
Oh, darn. I hope I didn't just ruin my new Romertopf (my mom gave me her extra one) because I accidently preheated the oven prior to putting my Red Cabbage in it. Crossing fingers and closing eyes...
Ideefixe
15 years ago
I almost always forget and preheat the oven. I don't even bother to soak my Romertopf anymore.

Expensive Bread Baking Toy

Comments (35)

Related Discussions

triciaeOriginal Author

triciaeOriginal Author

triciaeOriginal Author

triciaeOriginal Author

triciaeOriginal Author

triciaeOriginal Author

triciaeOriginal Author

triciaeOriginal Author

triciaeOriginal Author

triciaeOriginal Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

triciae
Original Author

triciae
Original Author

triciae
Original Author

triciae
Original Author

triciae
Original Author

triciae
Original Author

triciae
Original Author

triciae
Original Author

triciae
Original Author

triciae
Original Author