I'm unsure if you are still wanting ideas, but I have a VERY efficient stove idea that my husband and I will be jsinf in our Cob home and greenhouse when we sell our home and buy more property to live completely self sufficient off the grid. In the greenhouse we are going to be building a Cob oven and integrating it with a rocket stove, this way we can heat the greenhouse hours after the fire goes out not having to start it again until we are up and about. Furthermore integrating it with the Cob oven causes the oven to burn more efficient as well as stops smoke from coming out of the oven door, not to mention being able to bake breads, cook a turkey or ham, a casserole, or even a stew. Also we will be running the stove pkpe through a warming bench made of Cob and a warming tray area, this way seedlings that need bottom heat to sprout (such as tomato plants) can get what they need. I planned it all this way so that we have a super efficient form of heating for the greenhouse, and we gain far more than one use from the small investment considering what all we will reap from it. I really hlpe that this will help you as well as others in deciding on the most efficient and effective way to heat any space. The best part about Cob is that it is Fireproof! I do however highly recommend sealing it very well so that water beads off, as otherwise it will only last a few years. Cob Dwellings have been around for thousands of years, it was ome of the first ways to build a home amd remains the moth eatth friendly, natural, healthy, resilient, earthquake and fire proof manner of building. Cob consists of earthen clay soil, sand, and straw. You can even paint COB with one or more colors of paint made from stone, and sculpt it forming in wall shelving, wall & floor attached furniture, and you can even sculpt leaves and elaborate designs into your stove, oven, home or other. Best, Jewel

chloenkitty: It seems to me that, being a novice to this, you probably didn't realize that there are longstanding discussions and debates that get reflected in posts here. You stumble across one of those tripwires and and then find people debating issues as though you were not even in the room. That about how it feels? First, I would say "not to worry." It happens to everybody who spends much time here. Conversations wander and you get lots of opinions on debates that may seem off "your" topic. For every post like Deeageaux's, Wekick's or bmorepanic's that addresses specific concerns of yours, there will be several others debating issues you did not even know you were raising. When you run into this debating society, some of what you may hear will inevitably go over your head, at first, or seem intimidating or even snarky to you. Because the conversation is in writing from folks whose are passionate about their preferences, what gets written may come across with unintended inflections and intonations. As you have discovered, if you say something about it, most folks will be clear that they did not intend anything hurtful or personal. And that is what I saw happening here. Conversations do wander. And when they do, I am again reminded that this forum is a kind of debating society where some of us have been participating for a decade or more. We have well honed opinions which novices may mistake for dogma and factual assertions and direct or indirect assaults on intelligence or integrity. All that has happened here is that you've stirred up a debtate you did not know existed and did not know that somebody might think important. It whizzed by you leaving you in the dust but was not personal. Beyond that, I've got some suggestions for you about focucsing on your developing preferences and proceeding with your choices. First, there is never going to be a right answer or even a consensus on what will be the best choice for you, as Wekick already pointed out. Frankly, every stove represents engineering compromises and design tradeoffs. Different mixes of theses will appeal to different folks and your preferences may change over time. That's one reason there are so many choices. Second, you have developed some specific preferences about design aesthetics. That's part of the package and, for the money, can be important. You do not need to defend those preferences from those who do not share them. In other words, you can get a Mercedes if you want one and others' preference are for a Subaru (or, like me, a used Subaru!). But what I like about hearing these varying voices that that they may help better figure out my own preferences. Third, you asked about getting a "grill" if you got a Viking 30" range but I think you meant "griddle." It is a vocabulary thing. Generally, around here, the term "grill" refers to something with open flame/heat beneath a metal grate, rather like what you see on a bbq grill. A "griddle" on the other hand, is a solid (often thick) piece of flat metal for cooking pancakes and the like. You might be able to order a custom design from Viking with two gas burners on one side and a built in griddle on the other. That would be expensive and, to my thinking, impractical on a 30" wide stove. I think it would be far more practical to buy a separate griddle which (a) will likely have a larger cooking surface; (b) can be stashed out of the way when you are not using it (giving you all four burners for other cooking),; and (c) will be a lot easier to keep clean. Brands that have been recommended here include Vollrath (even-heating aluminum griddle) and Chef King (traditional carbon steel -- can also be used on induction and other electric surfaces, too.) Fourth, Viking can seem an attractive looking choice particularly since they now have three year warranties as standard. (Most ranges have one-year warranties and require you to buy an extended warranty if you want longer coverage.) However, searching on VIking will turn up a history of not-so-great quality control and uneven warranty service for a significant percentage of customers. Also, the company was acquired by the Middleby congolmerate last year and the effects of that acquisition are still uncertain. Fifth, if you are looking at a Viking all gas range, you also might want to consider Dacor products, too. Right now, Dacor's pricing is significantly lower than Viking's and, to all appearances, the current Dacor 30" all-gas ranges seem like a better value. When it comes to electronics and electric ovens, Dacor has had the same kinds of issues that Viking did, but the all gas versions skip most of the electronics and seem inherently more reliable. Some poeple like the looks of the Dacor a lot more, too. Bmorepanic has just bought one and it should be due for installation shortly if it is not already installed. Hopefully, we'll get a report. Sixth, most "pro-style" ranges (such as Dacor and Viking) can be had with or without a riser in the back. (Note that "pro-style" refers to a design style and should not be confused with true commercial ranges of the sort that would be used in restaurants.) They all need a trim piece in the back for the oven to vent properly, but you have choices from "island trim" (about 1" high) on up to a tall-stainless sheet riser topped with a shelf. The island trim gives you what you would be calling a "slide-in." Technically and narrowly, however, the term "slide-in" is usually used for ranges that (a) do not have the thick backsplash/vent/control panel that is characteristic of typical of most "freestanding" ranges from major brands; and (b) also have a cooktop "overhang" on either side (kind of like the brim of an upside down hat.) The overhang is intended to to cover the gaps between sides of the stove and the adjoing cabintes and countertops. Seventh, the GE Cafe ranges are called "free-standing" ranges --- even though they do not have thick backsplashes/vent/risers --- because their cooktops do not overhang the gap between stove and counter. I've sometimes seen them referred to as a "semi-pro" style. EIghth, the electronics in major brand stoves (as with the GE Cafe) give you a lot of conveniences including self-cleaning oven functions. Some folks will not consider a range without self-cleaning functions, some think self-cleaning is undesireable for its potential adverse effect on the electronics, and others have health issues (the fumes can be irritating for those with lung problems, for example.) Ninth, you mentioned having had health issues. I don't know if those include lung problems but, if so, you might want to avoid a gas range and go with a magnetic induction range, instead. Magnetic induction basically makes the pan heat itself (which is different than other electric heating burners which glow like a fire and throw heat that way.) Since you are pretty much starting out fresh, and (I assume) will be getting cookware anyway, you would just need to look for cookware with magnetic metal in the base. You might want to have a look at the new GE PHS920 slide-in model. (There's an active thread on this range right now.) Tenth, if you are looking for a wall oven, I would definitely recommend going with electric wall ovens. More choices and, generally speaking, easier to install. "More choices" is probably not what you want to hear at this point, though. ;>)

I have to agree a lot with christopherh. Our Company, PJs Hearth and Home Heating, sells only the best of the best in heating products. We carry pellet stoves ad premium plus Barefoot pellets, Monessen, Heil, Airease, DS Machine, Town and Country, Firemagic, R.H. Peterson, Bis, Archgard, and Hearthsense to name a few. We proudly boast Jotul as our cast iron stove recommendation, and Pacific Energy as our steel recommendation. What will be the main use of the stove? Looks or utility? Both brands boast different qualities. Jotul is a company located in Norway that is located between a shipyard and a railroad manufacturer. So to make a Jotul stove, they take the scrap steel and melt it down to make cast iron stoves. They are beautiful stoves that come in many varieties and colors. They boast grates and larger log sizes (some have front and side or top doors for loading). They boast the "Family Heirloom" factor also. Pacific Energy is a company located in British Columbia that carries steel stoves. They boast firebrick, limited lifetime warranties, and have "clean burn" technology which burns excess gasses before they go up the chimney. These stoves are somewhat plain, but you have the option to upgrade certain styles with colors, and door and leg options also. They are also less expensive. If for any reason the firebox cracks in a Pacific Energy, their warranty is to replace it, whatever the reason for cracking. Any stove that may interest you, make sure that you get all of your facts. Ask questions! Make sure to ask the salesperson about people that you could talk to about the stove that they purchased! Ask about warranties! Ask questons! Make sure that you can get replacement parts for what you are buying! Make sure that where you purchase your stove has a service department! Don't get stuck with a product that no one will fix or can't fix for you!! Compare prices! Ask questions!!! Something elso to consider is the quality of your flue and/or liner. Sure you could get a cheap one that might do the trick. Or you could get a great liner or flue and have the satisfaction of knowing your family is safe with your choice. Make sure to ask what the differences are and ask about warranties. You get what you pay for when it comes to liners and flues. Some brands actually say that they must be replaced every season. So is cheaper really better? And last but not least, there is always the firewood discussion. The moisture content of firewood determines how it burns and how much heat is released. Unseasoned (green) wood moisture content varies by the species, green wood may weigh 70 to 100 percent more than seasoned wood due to water content. Typically, seasoned (dry) wood has between 25% to 20% moisture content. If you are using unseasoned wood, it will seem like your stove might not be working. You are actually using heat and energy to dry your wood while you are trying to burn it, therefore losing most of the heating potential. Just think, all that work chopping wood for nothing! Watch out for people promising the sale of seasoned wood. Check it before you buy it with a moisture meter (here at PJs Hearth and Home Heating we give one with every stove sale). If you don't have one, you can actually get a decent one for less than $50. And if you are chopping your own wood, you should be cutting wood NOW for burning NEXT year. Make sure to stack your firewood in a dry area. Everyone Here at PJs Hearth and Home Heating, located at 2447 Quaker Valley Road, New Paris, Pennsylvania 15554 , is willing to answer any question that you may have Mon- Friday 7:30 AM - 6 PM at 814-839-0074. Check us out on the web at www.pjshearthandhome.com !

Gibby, I think they made the right decision for themselves due to the health concern. Sometimes the long anticipation of the misery is almost as bad as the misery when it hits. And you would have been no less comfortable in light of your concerns for them. I am a cat lover and I was always on meds to tolerate cats. Thirteen years ago I discovered Maine Coons and their cousins, Norweigian Forest Cats & Russian Siberians. Much to my surprise, I am totally not allergic to Maine Coons, but still react to other breeds and mixed breeds. It is a pleasure to be able to have cats in our home and I never have complaints from visitors with allergies since I acquired my Maine Coons. A close friend bought a MC after I discovered this, because a family member has severe allergies and stopped visiting her when she previously had a cat. The sister-in-law resumed her visits without a problem. I don't know if it works for everyone, but it certainly has for us.