Thank you so much for posting these, they are beautiful! I've never heard of these brands since the area I live in is still in the dark ages! we only have stores like Home Depot and lowes so I highly doubt I could get that brand here. I'm sure I can order them online, but then what happens if they need to be serviced? I live in northeast pa, about 2 hours north of Philadelphia.

30" is the standard size for a range, correct? If so, that size would be fine as I don't want one that looks small or too large. Regarding cost, Initially I was going to pay $5k for a viking, but I am having second thoughts paying that much for a gas range since I will buy a wall oven as well, so if possible, I'd prefer to pay less.

Sounds like convection is the way to go? Do you have the option to use the convection or is it just how it cooks in these units? Also, are there only certain dishes you want to use convection for?

Lastly, I'm guessing this brand is well liked since you posted it for me? What does the gas range sell for?

Thank you again for posting these for me, I will look into them.

Ps the range will be between cabinets in the kitchen so I would prefer slide in, but that does not mean it has to be slide in, does it? It's just the way it looks attaching to the countertops, correct?

Lowes carries Dacor but its special order.

Because you're building new, you can change the range/stove to be electric if you want. That way, you could pick an induction range (GE, Viking, Dacor among others). You'd have a cooler kitchen - literally cooler, not stylistically.

You could also spec a convection microwave (mostly a micro, second small oven) or a speed oven (usually larger combination of mostly a oven aided by a microwave) over a standard wall oven. Then use any of hundreds of cooktops or rangetops instead of a range.

A cooktop is a set of burners (induction, radiant or gas) set into the counter over a cabinet. Depending on what you choose, you also get two drawers in the cabinet underneath. A fair number of cooktops allow for at least a shallow drawer on top.

Cooktops (mostly) need space for the controls on top. Many, many people use 36" wide cooktops. A cooktop generally has closer spacing between the burners because it needs to fit inside of a cabinet, getting a wider one helps by increasing the spacing between pots.

A rangetop is the top of a range with knobs or controls on the front. It is installed in place of the top drawer of a cabinet. I've linked to A J Madison below - not a shopping recommendation, I wouldn't know about that - just a good place to see a lot of photos.

A range top doesn't "need" to be increased because of the control space but some people need more burners.

I cook a lot; a range top + speed oven + conventional is what I would spec if I had the room and the budget. I am not a pro-level cook but an enthusiastic amateur who really enjoys cooking. I would spec a bluestar or american range rangetop plus bosch ovens.

HTH.

Here is a link that might be useful: Rangetops at AJ Madison

Thanks so much, your messages are very informative. I've always used gas. My boss was telling me he likes electric for many reasons and, seeing all the options given above, I don't know what the heck to do!!! I like the idea of electric not making your house hot, but would I like it for cooking? I'm not a fan of the flat top look of an electric range or just a cooktop though. I am not opposed to trying something new if it's better, however. A friend said she has a cooktop and likes it, I just never liked the way they looked taking up counter space. Again, since I don't cook much, I am very open to hear advice/opinions on what I should choose one over the other, etc. Just because I don't like to cook now, means I won't in the future and I don't want to be sorry about my choices. For those of you who have cook tops, do you like them? I am attaching a pic of the kitchen I am doing so maybe that will give you all an idea of the plan and you can better advise me.

So why gas or why electric? Also, is it correct for some of these new flat top electric ranges that you need special pots and pans?
Thanks again, I am learning a lot.

This post was edited by chloenkitty on Tue, Dec 3, 13 at 14:14

There are all different ways to cook and no one perfect range. It might be hard to predict what would best fit the way you cook when you are just learning. As you learn to cook, you will be able to work around whatever equipment you have. Read as much as you can understanding the good and the bad. Each choice has both!
There is quite a bit written about induction on this forum. There is a forum search on the front page of the appliance forum. There are also electric coil and electric flat top ranges. I like the idea of a range top or cook top separate from ovens because if one part goes kaput you are not stuck replacing the whole range. You can also buy the best of each component.
The width depends on how many burners you want. Widths go from 24-30-36-48 and 60 inch. 30 inch is the most common. Some of the European ranges are other widths. Pro style ranges are usually deeper allowing for use of bigger pans. Island trim will give a little more depth too.
Black enamel on top varies. I had a Dacor DF that was always smeary looking but my range now is easy to clean. Some like stainless but it is subject to discoloration from heat.

Convection is just another tool in cooking. It can be used or not. I might use it for awhile during cooking and then turn it off.
Convection has the following effects due to the movement of air.
-It is drying. This makes things like meat or poultry crispy. It promotes browning. It also will "set" things like cakes and things that need to rise earlier and can prevent a full rise.
-It increases the rate of heat exchange making things cook faster. This can be anywhere from 10-30 percent faster depending on what you are cooking and the particular oven.
-It evens out the temperature in the oven. While this is good for many things it is bad for cakes that need to bake from the bottom.

There are two types of convection. There are ovens with just a fan that switches on and off and there are ovens with a third element(also called true or European convection). Gas ovens have just an on and off switch except the new BS oven which has a gas element by the fan. It is not clear from the website how this is used in the oven. The benefit of the third element is to provide a more even heat when the oven is full. Some ovens have 2 fans and various modes that may change the speed of the fan. Ovens are baffled in various ways to optimize air flow. This takes more electronics to coordinate the elements and fans and it seems that it is more difficult to get those right. I would not buy a new model of anything like that. It is very much a trial and error in learning how to use convection. There are various formulas online for decreasing temperature or cooking times but these don't always apply.

Some other considerations
sealed vs open burners if you choose gas
gas vs electric oven
There is a lot already written on these subjects.

We have a lot of fans for Electrolux wall ovens. Bosch has not had as many people review their ovens but I think those who have, liked them. I have an Electrolux wall oven which I love but it has had trouble with the blue enamel. There haven't been complaints(yet) with the blue enamel on the newer ovens though. Get the longest extended warranty you can. I bought it to cover the electronics but it ended up paying to put in a new liner when the enamel chipped.

You have a lot of tough decisions. The picture you posted, while very pretty, doesn't look terribly practical--having the stove/slide in range in one spot and wall oven & microwave seemingly quite a ways away. It would seem that a cooktop with a cabinet or double drawers for storage underneath would make the most sense in that scenario.

The electric cooktop that needs "special" pans is an induction cooktop. The "special" requirement is that the pans are magnetic (cast iron, for example). Induction cook tops are nice in that they don't heat the room and are very adjustable. That said, when it came to replacing our smooth top radiant electric top I opted to have a gas line installed. We put in a Bosch 800-series 5-burner top and love it! I can still put silverware and cooking utensils in the drawer underneath and I have two slid-out shelves in the cabinet below for cookware. It's quite practical for our layout. The top itself is very easy to clean.

Below in link is a Bluestar RNB at a bargain price.

It is made in Reading Pa. so I don't think you will have a problems with getting service or parts.

A 30" RNB is normally $4300 plus 300 for color plus tax.

Below is a 30" RNB with the oven door and toekick in black with the rangetop in SS. It is $3800 with free shipping leaving plenty of budget for an electric wall oven. The same dealer has one in grey.

Bluestar is one of the better ranges out there. Another one is Capital Culinarian.

I have a 36" Culinarian range and a 24" electric wall oven.

So I have a 36" gas oven in the range and an electric wall oven giving me the best of both worlds.

You can go to Youtube and search bluestar and see lots of videos of people using and demonstrating this range.

Here is a link that might be useful: LINK

Well so far I believe I would like a gas range since the wall oven would be electric. I am leaning towards the viking or GE cafe series. I like that the viking does not have a back so as to not cover much of the backsplash, but all I see on viking website seem to have a back to them. Do you have to request not having a back? I'd like to get a wall oven/microwave and hopefully a warming drawer all from the same line, but not sure if I want to pay for all viking products. Any favs for the wall oven/microwave/warming drawer combo? I know a lot of people want every appliance from the same line, but some companies made better refrigerators than dishwashers, etc., correct? How do you all feel about that? All appliances from same line or no?

For me, I like that the range and wall oven area are not right next to each other in the inspiration pic. Where we live now, my husband and I are constantly bumping into each other in the kitchen and it drives us nuts. On holidays, etc I like the fact that if someone is at the range and someone checking on wall oven, etc we won't be bumping into each other.

I love this kitchen to the point I had the builder make modifications to the plans so I could get almost this exact kitchen. With all the choices there are when building a house, I kind of like having this inspiration kitchen to follow to make it a little easier for me since you have to choose every darn thing when building!!

For me, I like that the range and wall oven area are not right next to each other in the inspiration pic. Where we live now, my husband and I are constantly bumping into each other in the kitchen and it drives us nuts. On holidays, etc I like the fact that if someone is at the range and someone checking on wall oven, etc we won't be bumping into each other.

I love this kitchen to the point I had the builder make modifications to the plans so I could get almost this exact kitchen. With all the choices there are when building a house, I kind of like having this inspiration kitchen to follow to make it a little easier for me since you have to choose every darn thing when building!!

Just about every pro style range has island trim that can be ordered to reduce the visual intrusion. Some have island trim standard - viking is one, at least on the all gas pro version. Viking also has optional "slide-in trim" to eliminate the gap between the range and the counter.

A cafe range is not a pro style range. It is a gussied up GE profile with cute trim and doors. In this same way, a Kitchenaid is a gussied up Whirlpool.

As a little something to think about - a cafe range has an oven burner of about 16k btus and an oven size of 5.4 cu ft. The viking 30" all gas has a oven size of 4 cu ft and an oven burner of about 30k btu.

Which oven will heat up faster? It should (and probably will) take the cafe range about twice as long to not only reach 400 degrees but be stable at 400 degrees.

You may want to think about a couple of things with that kitchen plan. None of them are fatal :)

The door next to the range area looks like it opens partly in front of the ref. That might make putting groceries away a challenge.

The ref door can crash into the oven doors - even when the oven doors are closed. Or perhaps not, it depends on the allowed angle of opening. If this were a cabinet, you could put in a hinge limitor, but I've never seen one for an appliance. Generally speaking, a french door ref needs to have both doors wide open to use a full width produce/deli drawer and for proper cleaning.

It looks like both sides of the island have 3 foot aisles. 42" aisles are the suggested minimum size now with 4 foot wide aisles recommended with a multi-cook kitchen and are pretty much required in order to fully (and safely) open the oven doors. Aisles are measured countertop to countertop, not cabinet to cabinet. In your layout, count the cabinets on the wall as 26" wide and add 3" to the width of the island (so not 48" wide but 51").

Lastly it looks like prep is taking place IN a traffic aisle. This isn't ideal but not basically important as long as you have no children and the door near the range doesn't lead to someplace important and frequently used - the family room or the powder room or the main family entrance. If it leads to a pantry, no sweat.

But otherwise, people will be constantly walking back and forth in the aisle. The same aisle that appears to be pretty narrow with some crashing door issues.

So you might head on over to kitchens and ask for ideas.

Thank you all for these tips. Keep them coming as I learn something with each tip. I didn't know about the things bmorepanic posted about the oven heating up, so thank you. And as far as the isle size, my island will not be this big. The island in the photo is huge!!!! I believe my kitchen is a few feet wider than the one pictured above as well. I did not need it to be that big, but heck, I won't complain. I will make a notation to our builder about the spacing between items so everything flows and functions well.

So I am getting near the end of the decision making here so, just a few more things please. I will have to order the viking without seeing it most likely so......I want to make sure I understand the one post above that I can indeed get a 30" viking that will slide in that does not have that area in the back of the range that comes up high? Secondly, does anyone know if the viking has a grill on top? I do enjoy making pancakes etc and always wanted that option. The last question is if I don't want to spend quite that much on a wall oven/microwave combo, what is another good line to get that will look nice with the viking? I wouldn't mind having a warming drawer either. Thank you :)

I don't think anyone has mentioned this, and if they already have, forgive me for repeating.... But have you talked with your builder about these range options and/or ventilation? With some of these "pro style" ranges, you're going to need a powerful hood for exhaust because that is going to have higher BTU output and you're going to need somewhere for all of that heat/grease/byproducts to go. Depending on the features of your house (i.e. wood burning fireplace, additional gas appliances, etc.), local code, etc., you may need an additional HVAC work to add "make up air" back into the house that the range hood will suck out (to prevent carbon monoxide poisoning!). Maybe your builder is already planning for a more powerful range hood, but if you haven't discussed ventilation, you may want to do so. That may help sway your decision.

As another poster said, you have alot of tough decisions. Good luck!

***Actually, I'm editing this....I just re-read your original post where the plans call for a gas range & over the range microwave...I would say if that's your builder's plans, you definitely need to find out about your ventilation options and how much that would cost for a "pro-style" range. Also, then your microwave would need to go somewhere (since you're most likely going to need a range hood instead of a microwave/hood combo)...maybe in the wall spot in lieu of a wall oven?

This post was edited by hokie98 on Wed, Dec 4, 13 at 9:16

In the link below, choose the product information tab, Installation Accessories heading.

Whether its the island trim or the short back guard standard changes with model. And you're right, they love to show pictures of the short back.

A curb base is a stainless toe kick area instead of visible appliance feet - or I guess it comes painted if you choose a color. The small panel below the oven door is also replaced with a vented panel. The vents look like old type locker door vents.

Before deciding, always look around (here and other places that do reviews) for the brand or model you're thinking about to get a sense of brand quality. No matter how nice the ad photographs are, force yourself to read through the issues around quality, service and how the owners like their appliances after using them for a length of time. Particularly helpful is to get spouse, relative or friend to look also - in other words, someone who may not be as emotionally invested.

Here is a link that might be useful: Viking All Gas Range

hokie98, the range will be by itself like in the photo with a ventilation hood above and there will be a separate wall oven with microwave on top.
I have to be honest, I'm almost ready to start crying. I never knew how difficult and time consuming picking appliances could be! When you're not much of a cook and just turn on a burner to make mashed potatoes or turn on the oven to throw in some chicken or a meatloaf, all this technical stuff is pretty overwhelming and scary. I just want a reliable, attractive looking range and separate wall unit and it's so complicated :( I thought I was having a hard time with wall color, but this beats the band. I think I'm going to go have a cry now or a drink lol

Have you thought about going to a kitchen showroom/designer? Your builder should be able to recommend a showroom...or rather, go whatever showroom sells Viking in your area, or the GE Cafe in your area. A kitchen designer/appliance specialist can help you find products that fit your wants/needs so you're not shouldering the entire burden. They can explain all of the features to you, and you can decide what best fits your lifestyle. Plus you can touch/feel - see how you like the quality, the knobs, etc., and they may even have a working range that you can try. These designers are paid to help you figure out these issues! :-) You say you're in the boonies, but worse case scenario, even if you had to drive 2 hrs to Philly, it would probably be worth it. Home Depot & Lowe's probably offer some help, but I would only go there on last resort...and secondly, you aren't going to find Viking there, nor GE Cafe, not to say they don't carry some very respectable items.

I don't mean to scare you about the ventilation - I had no idea of the requirements of some of these pro-style ranges until I started researching/reading about them on this forum a couple of weeks ago since I'm in the market to replace my range. I'm just saying if I were you, before I buy, I would double check what is need to vent it, and how that fits in with your local building codes (for instance, I believe that in some states, any hood that vents 600 cu ft more more needs that "make up air" unit - search 'MUA' on this forum and you'll find all sorts of discussions)....again a local designer/consultant familiar with kitchens should know this sort of stuff too, in conjunction with your builder. I wholeheartedly agree, this is hard!

I think its funny that someone who "cannot cook" needs all this restaurant-quality equipment to learn on....sort of ridiculous to worry about it, actually. She should put more into learning to art of cooking, and less about worrying about how many BTUs your burners put out and the CFM of your hood....she'll be a better cook in the long run.

I've played tennis my whole life....can't tell you how many people I've seen over the years stressing about which racquet to buy, the specs, etc...the type of people who get a new racket every year or two. Then I see them play and they can't even hit the ball over the net. Meanwhile I've always been a fairly advanced armature (4.0-4.5) and maybe get a new racket every 10 years or so.....

Every appliance in my kitchen (except my fridge) is from the 50s...Hamilton Beach toaster, Oester beehive blender, Sunbeam mix-master, un-restored 1953 Roper stove that I love love love...even though I have to manually light the oven (that's how it was designed!), etc...and I can cook my ass off (if i do say so myself...lol).

Oh and I'm a guy in my 40s...not a 75 yr old lady or anything....I could afford to have a high-end kitchen (like all my friends do....boring...), but I just love old stuff! Just trying to make a point I guess...I occasionally look at some of the posts in the appliances forum and have to chuckle at how much people stress about the "performance" of all their high-end appliances....

This post was edited by mkroopy on Thu, Dec 5, 13 at 12:13

Here is a video you can follow to surprise yourself on how good a cook you can be.
Heston also has the in search of perfection and how to cook like Heston videos. They are fun and informative.
Take a look at his home kitchen. He has wall ovens and a Gaggenau induction cooktop on the left. Induction is very clean and easy to wipe clean. It has all the power of gas with faster response and no waste heat.
Heston is totally self taught and has a three Michelin star restaurant in Britain which was voted best in the world.

Here is a link that might be useful: Heston The Perfect Roast Chicken

For what it's worth mkroopy, I completely agree with you. I actually wrote my original post suggesting to the OP to buy a consumer range and take the cost savings over a Viking D3 to buy some good pots & pans, nice tools, cooking classes, and stock her pantry/fridge with quality ingredients. However, I deleted before I posted it b/c it sounded like OP is interested in the asthetics of those ranges and she wouldn't be convinced otherwise. To each their own.

I briefly considering a pro-style range, but then quickly decided that for me, it was a waste of money (for the range & required ventilation for those beast), and I cook from scratch most nights of the week!

"She, the OP", is still reading the messages! Sounds like some people are talking about me like I'm not in the room lol. Were these posters the mean girl type in grade and high school? I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting something to look a specific way. If saying the range is the only item out of 8 or so appliances I need in a new home to have a specific look, I don't think I should be made fun of or talked about for it. I am not a snob and don't need a name brand for things, however, if I am going for a certain look and reached out for help, not sarcasm, then so be it. I never said all the items I want have to be "restaurant quality equipment" as mkroopy said. I am willing to learn and have politely looked here for guidance, not to be condemned. Also, I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to get one item that's a more expensive good quality product instead of getting something lesser quality that may break,and I end up replacing it and paying for another item in a few years. My husband and I have saved our butts off for years and years to build a nice new home and it was put on hold last year when my father became gravely ill. I never thought that reaching out for help would result in ignorance from some people. I should have known better with the way the world is turning. Thanks so much to those lovely people who were kind enough to extend friendly advice and time, I truly appreciate it and have learned some valuable information :). To those who have to say unkind things, just keep it to yourself and say nothing, who needs it? Geez, I'd never be unkind t to someone like that!

Also, "she" would have loved to have time to learn the "art of cooking" instead of fighting a life threatening illness for years while still having to work full time and then helping her sickly father. Now that "she" is better and her father has passed, "she" is doing one thing at a time and building the home that has been put off for sometime is coming before "art of cooking classes."
It pains me because I am a very nice, kind, loving person and others can be so mean and force you to have to reply to unkindness in such ways. I apologize to those who have to read this that were kind to me.

Also, "she" would have loved to have time to learn the "art of cooking" instead of fighting a life threatening illness while still having to work full time and then helping her sickly father. Now that "she" is better and her father has passed, "she" is doing one thing at a time and building the home that has been put off for sometime is coming before "art of cooking classes."
It pains me because I am a very nice, kind, loving person and others can be so mean and force you to have to reply to unkindness in such ways. I apologize to those who have to read this that were kind to me.

Hokie...I hear ya. My ex has all this Viking and Sub-Zero stuff. Can't tell you how many times she's had to have them serviced. My old clunky Stove is built like a tank, no computer, no electronics..only old, reliable gas valves. I had them cleaned and reworked when I got the stove 4 yrs ago...they wont need to be touched for 20+ years probably.

Chloe...I am sorry you took my post as an "attack"... I meant nothing personal by it. Just trying to make a point about people focusing too much on equipment, rather than the skills involved in using it in general. It was not meant to be directed at you personally, but rather to be a generalized topic of discussion.

I am sorry you took my post so harshly...I really didn't mean it that way, I swear. Of course you have the right to have your kitchen however you want...nothing wrong with that. Kitchens are where the best memories of most people's lives are from (it certainly is that way for me).....they are special places.

Hi OP

Don't let the snark get you down. It's great that you can afford to redo your kitchen the way you want. Speaking as someone who just got a high-end range, I can say that it has changed my attitude toward cooking. Is it a bit of a new toy? Of course. Would I be able to cook just (or almost) as well on something less expensive? Yes. But so what? I wanted it, I could afford it and I got it.

So you shouldn't feel bad about wanting something to look really nice and to perform. You might become a really good cook and enjoy it a lot, especially if you have a high-performance cooking appliance.

Ignore the nasties and just educate yourself about what your options are and don't feel bad about coming back here to ask more questions. Do try to go to an appliance showroom after you have done some on-line reading. It will make a visit that much more worthwhile.

By the way, I got a 36" Blue Star range with a grill and I couldn't be happier. I love the open burners, the power of the large ones and the gentleness of the simmer burner. I really like the oven too. Broiler is small but powerful.

I agree with chloenkitty, that it is good to want something of good well made appliance 's that will not have to be replaced in 5 years. I am happy that you ( chloekitty ) is very much better. Hope you create the kitchen you desire.

Myself I am not professional cook or as good at cooking as some who post here but after looking at consumer ranges now, they not well made and some have hollow oven doors without good insulation.

My current GE profile radiant electric range from 6 years ago has double insulated glass door and seems better constructed than most ranges I see now. It was $1200 at the time, ranges with same features now only $600-700 today. Quality has dropped with the drop of prices.

So now I am looking at Miele , Bosch, electric cooktops and will look for single 24" wall oven as I live by myself and do not need large sized appliances.

My apologies if you took offense to anything I said, but I do stand by my opinion about not buying a pro-style range, but again, that's just my opinion. My husband works for a kitchen & bath wholesaler, so I'm also all for buying whatever makes your heart skip a beat b/c appliance consumers are what helps put food on our table! :-)

I also stand by what I said before - go to an appliance showroom. See what you like. See what features are valuable to you. In an oven/range, I like having convection, bread proofing button & a meat probe. That's important to me...I prefer to bake with convection to reduce cooking time, I like to make bread and stick in the oven to rise, and I like when I cook a roast, chicken, etc., I can just stick a probe in there and the oven shuts off when done. I could be wrong, but I don't even think they have those features in the D3. On top of the range, I'm not as picky; I care more about the oven, but that's just me. An appliance consultant in a showroom can explain all the available features to you and help you figure out what may end up being most important to you. Then come back here and research the brands/models you most like. If you're looking for quality, you may want to make sure you do plenty of research on the Viking D3. It won't take you long to find threads of people complain about horrible customer service & quality issue from Viking. You know how luxury car manufacturers come out with a small, cheap car, but it's a piece of junk....well, some would say that's the D3. I'm sure it has it's fans, but not sure I would buy the cheapest model of any brand. GE Cafe seems to have a good track record and I believe they have the highest customer satisfaction after 5 years. There are also alot of other brands out there as others have said that may peak your interest. Go, look.

Again, I didn't mean to scare you about the ventilation, but if I were you, I'd DEFINITELY check with my builder about your needs/requirements. Both the Viking & GE Cafe put out some hefty BTU's for a 30" range. I've read post from some people on here that have had to shell out some serious cash for their HVAC system to compensate for the ventilation their gas range/cooktop needs. I've seen numbers from $1000 - $15000 in additional expense. If you do have to spend more for "make up air" that could help you decide on how powerful of a range you need/want...read the link below to understand the backdraft/ventilation issue. The article does a much better job of explaining it than I can. It's recommended you have a vent fan that moves 100 cfm of air for every 10K in BTU's. I calculate that the Viking has a total of 64K BTUs, and the GE Cafe has 59K (both 5 burner models)....so for either of them you're looking at a range hood that can vent 600 - 650 cfm's. Again, depending on the code in your area and features of your home such as your furnace, you *may* have to make adjustments to your HVAC. You may be lucky and not have to make any adjustments, but it would sort of suck to order a range, then find out it's going to cost you a bit extra for it to be installed and pass inspection. Better to know ahead of time. Good luck.

Here is a link that might be useful: Make-Air for Range Hoods

chloenkitty:

It seems to me that, being a novice to this, you probably didn't realize that there are longstanding discussions and debates that get reflected in posts here. You stumble across one of those tripwires and and then find people debating issues as though you were not even in the room.

That about how it feels?

First, I would say "not to worry." It happens to everybody who spends much time here. Conversations wander and you get lots of opinions on debates that may seem off "your" topic. For every post like Deeageaux's, Wekick's or bmorepanic's that addresses specific concerns of yours, there will be several others debating issues you did not even know you were raising. When you run into this debating society, some of what you may hear will inevitably go over your head, at first, or seem intimidating or even snarky to you. Because the conversation is in writing from folks whose are passionate about their preferences, what gets written may come across with unintended inflections and intonations.

As you have discovered, if you say something about it, most folks will be clear that they did not intend anything hurtful or personal. And that is what I saw happening here.

Conversations do wander. And when they do, I am again reminded that this forum is a kind of debating society where some of us have been participating for a decade or more. We have well honed opinions which novices may mistake for dogma and factual assertions and direct or indirect assaults on intelligence or integrity. All that has happened here is that you've stirred up a debtate you did not know existed and did not know that somebody might think important. It whizzed by you leaving you in the dust but was not personal.

Beyond that, I've got some suggestions for you about focucsing on your developing preferences and proceeding with your choices.

First, there is never going to be a right answer or even a consensus on what will be the best choice for you, as Wekick already pointed out. Frankly, every stove represents engineering compromises and design tradeoffs. Different mixes of theses will appeal to different folks and your preferences may change over time. That's one reason there are so many choices.

Second, you have developed some specific preferences about design aesthetics. That's part of the package and, for the money, can be important. You do not need to defend those preferences from those who do not share them. In other words, you can get a Mercedes if you want one and others' preference are for a Subaru (or, like me, a used Subaru!). But what I like about hearing these varying voices that that they may help better figure out my own preferences.

Third, you asked about getting a "grill" if you got a Viking 30" range but I think you meant "griddle." It is a vocabulary thing. Generally, around here, the term "grill" refers to something with open flame/heat beneath a metal grate, rather like what you see on a bbq grill. A "griddle" on the other hand, is a solid (often thick) piece of flat metal for cooking pancakes and the like. You might be able to order a custom design from Viking with two gas burners on one side and a built in griddle on the other. That would be expensive and, to my thinking, impractical on a 30" wide stove. I think it would be far more practical to buy a separate griddle which (a) will likely have a larger cooking surface; (b) can be stashed out of the way when you are not using it (giving you all four burners for other cooking),; and (c) will be a lot easier to keep clean. Brands that have been recommended here include Vollrath (even-heating aluminum griddle) and Chef King (traditional carbon steel -- can also be used on induction and other electric surfaces, too.)

Fourth, Viking can seem an attractive looking choice particularly since they now have three year warranties as standard. (Most ranges have one-year warranties and require you to buy an extended warranty if you want longer coverage.) However, searching on VIking will turn up a history of not-so-great quality control and uneven warranty service for a significant percentage of customers. Also, the company was acquired by the Middleby congolmerate last year and the effects of that acquisition are still uncertain.

Fifth, if you are looking at a Viking all gas range, you also might want to consider Dacor products, too. Right now, Dacor's pricing is significantly lower than Viking's and, to all appearances, the current Dacor 30" all-gas ranges seem like a better value. When it comes to electronics and electric ovens, Dacor has had the same kinds of issues that Viking did, but the all gas versions skip most of the electronics and seem inherently more reliable. Some poeple like the looks of the Dacor a lot more, too.

Bmorepanic has just bought one and it should be due for installation shortly if it is not already installed. Hopefully, we'll get a report.

Sixth, most "pro-style" ranges (such as Dacor and Viking) can be had with or without a riser in the back. (Note that "pro-style" refers to a design style and should not be confused with true commercial ranges of the sort that would be used in restaurants.) They all need a trim piece in the back for the oven to vent properly, but you have choices from "island trim" (about 1" high) on up to a tall-stainless sheet riser topped with a shelf. The island trim gives you what you would be calling a "slide-in." Technically and narrowly, however, the term "slide-in" is usually used for ranges that (a) do not have the thick backsplash/vent/control panel that is characteristic of typical of most "freestanding" ranges from major brands; and (b) also have a cooktop "overhang" on either side (kind of like the brim of an upside down hat.) The overhang is intended to to cover the gaps between sides of the stove and the adjoing cabintes and countertops.

Seventh, the GE Cafe ranges are called "free-standing" ranges --- even though they do not have thick backsplashes/vent/risers --- because their cooktops do not overhang the gap between stove and counter. I've sometimes seen them referred to as a "semi-pro" style.

EIghth, the electronics in major brand stoves (as with the GE Cafe) give you a lot of conveniences including self-cleaning oven functions. Some folks will not consider a range without self-cleaning functions, some think self-cleaning is undesireable for its potential adverse effect on the electronics, and others have health issues (the fumes can be irritating for those with lung problems, for example.)

Ninth, you mentioned having had health issues. I don't know if those include lung problems but, if so, you might want to avoid a gas range and go with a magnetic induction range, instead. Magnetic induction basically makes the pan heat itself (which is different than other electric heating burners which glow like a fire and throw heat that way.) Since you are pretty much starting out fresh, and (I assume) will be getting cookware anyway, you would just need to look for cookware with magnetic metal in the base. You might want to have a look at the new GE PHS920 slide-in model. (There's an active thread on this range right now.)

Tenth, if you are looking for a wall oven, I would definitely recommend going with electric wall ovens. More choices and, generally speaking, easier to install. "More choices" is probably not what you want to hear at this point, though. ;>)

Hi everyone and thank you for the posts. I'm not a grudge holder and appreciate all of you. I often read posts on forums and rarely post questions, so i do know people get nasty, and I really dislike that, but I appreciate the kind words back. I did not get to read everything, but I am learning and am so grateful. One poster asked if the health issue I had were lung related and actually, they were. I've had blood clots (pulmonary embolisms) and they can instantly kill you. I'm not sure if I should worry about fumes, etc., but I will indeed find out, thank you.

Sadly there are not any great showrooms in my area except a Home Depot and lowes (boo) so I plan on traveling to New York or Philadelphia to see different brands in person. Listening to all of you, I am definitely getting an electric wall oven and gas range. The builder has put many powerful ranges in the homes he's built, so I'm confident there. I did call viking and spoke to a rep and it seemed like the 30" sealed burner (self cleaning) would be the one I'd go with if I got a viking. To get a griddle on top (thank you for clearing that up) I'd have to get the 36" range, which is like $2,000 more so, I won't get that. I am still considering the GE cage and want to see a Dacor in person since many of you have suggested them. As you can see in the kitchen pic I posted, the kitchen is contemporary, and I just think an industrial looking range will look best as I don't want a range with a lot of black on it. As far as the BTUs and all the technical info you have all posted, I have not absorbed it all, but I plan on sitting down soon and reading it all again so I can get a better understanding of it. I've been really busy at work, helping my mom (it's our first christmas without my father) and picking everything for this house, so it's been a little crazy to say the least.
Right after the holidays I will go out of town a bit to visit some showrooms and hopefully will pick something I am happy with financially and aesthetically :)
And ps my range really stinks right now (it's a maytag) I swear the top is crooked, the flames are never right, the inside caught fire while broiling a steak (which I'm sure was my fault lol) I hate the shiny black top because I can never get it perfectly clean and it shows every spot. So you see, get really annoyed with it and don't enjoy cooking on it all. I'm hoping my next stove with be less problematic and more enjoyable to cook on. I will read all your posts again and let it sink in and let you all know when I make a decision. My other big dilemma is paint color for an open floor plan, so I'll see you on those boards perhaps lol :)
Happy holidays to all of you, no matter what you celebrate or believe it, I hope it's happy :)

PS you have to admit, it is confusing on this forum as one minute you think you're going with Viking, so you read up on it and hear Dacor is better, but then you read about Dacor and it seems worse! Lol it can really make you scratch your head!

Have you looked at Electrolux? Not quite the same industrial look as Viking, but rather contemporary. Their gas range is all SS, an similar price point as GE Cafe. Their wall ovens get very good reviews and I have read very positive things about their ranges. Electrolux also has an ICON line, which is well thought of, but that may be a big price jump.