I'm glad I posted this -- I'm learning all sorts of things! I didn't realize that sourdough isn't necessarily sour -- but it makes sense the commerical stuff is more so. (I had a friend's homemade sourdough recently, and while it was a very nice bread I remember thinking it wasn't nearly sour enough!) The sour taste is really what I'm going for -- if I can't get that going naturally, I'll looking into adding the taste in with other things. (I picked up a littl container of buttermilk powder for another recipe -- that might be a good taste to play around with!) Thanks for the explanation on acidity and the viscosity of the starter, Carol; that's helps a lot. The alchemy of baking has always intimidated me -- it's good to have a clearer idea of what's going on. I'll keep plugging away for a while longer with this starter, perhaps feed it whole wheat for a while and see if that builds up it's puny flour-lifting muscles. If not, the soured yeast dough may be the way to go, jessica; I didn't know you could do that. It might actually be better way to go, given the infrequency with which I bake. I'm still going to work with this starter -- Ill keep you posted!

Everyone gave good information and there are several possible reasons for the bread shredding on the side. A little shredding is acceptable, but not as much as shown in the picture. You had nice oven-spring and browning, on the positive side of things :-). My first thought was the pan size, as many others have suggested. The best judge of the size of pan needed is the weight of the dough. If the weight is around 2-pounds (or about 4-cups of flour in the recipe), then a 9x5-inch pan is the best choice. An 8-1/2x4-1/2-inch pan for 1-1/2-pounds of dough (or about 3 c. of flour). -The general rule-of-thumb for reducing salt in a yeast bread recipe is to reduce them by the same percentage - for example - if you reduce the salt by 50%, then you also reduce the amount of yeast by 50%. -Be sure to rest your dough after punching down and before shaping - this is an important step that is often left out - including the good folks at King Arthur Flour per recipe instructions. How to: After punching it down and scaling the dough (if necessary for determining pan size or if dividing into more than one loaf), place the dough on the oiled counter or Silpat and round the dough by pulling it down with your hands and turning it a quarter of a turn each time until you have a nice tight ball. This helps straighten the gluten strands and the tight surface of the dough ball will help hold in the gasses. Cover the dough (I flip a dough-rising bucket over it, but a bowl, sheet of plastic wrap, or a light cloth can also be used). Allow the dough to sit for 10-15 minutes before forming so the gluten has a chance to relax and makes the dough easier to shape properly. -How was the dough shaped? Use a rolling pin or pat the dough out with lightly oiled hands, then roll it back up and pinch the seam shut - placing the seam side down - and turn the ends under the loaf. Other possible reasons: -Over-mixing can cause shredding. This can happen when using a stand mixer, but not as likely if you use a bread machine or make the dough by hand. -Too much flour can cause shredding. Only add enough flour to make a nice soft dough. The amount suggested in the recipe is just a good (or bad) guess. It's better to err on the side of a slightly slack (or wet) dough than a stiff dough. -The dough may have been under-proofed for the first rise and/or the last rise after it was panned. Use a dough rising bucket so you'll know when the dough has doubled in bulk so you don't under- or over-proof the dough. Personally, I never proof dough in the bread machine, if you used a bread machine. I always take the dough out after it finished kneading and place it in a dough-rising bucket. Dough rises according to the amount and strength of the yeast, the moisture and ambient temperature - not according to the timed rise in a bread machine. It would also be best to let the dough rise outside of the bread machine due to the salt/yeast adjustment. A 2-quart plastic food storage container from a restaurant supply store will work for most recipes that make 1 or 2 loaves. Find one that is clear or opaque, round or square - your choice, and has a graduated measure on the side. You can also recycle a plastic ice cream bucket or a plastic canister with a lid - just make sure it has a straight side. If the dough in the dough-rising bucket comes up to the 1-quart line, it will be "double" in bulk when it reaches the 2-quart line. If the container doesn't have graduated markings, use a ruler. Take the measure of the dough in the container, double that amount and mark where that will be on the side of the container (use an erasable marker, grease pen, post-it-note, piece of masking tape, etc. - but be sure to mark which edge of the post-it-note or tape is the marking). A dough rising bucket takes all the guess-work out of proofing. With the lid on, it's the perfect environment providing it's own moisture, keeps drafts from hardening the dough surface, as well as being a straight-sided container which gives an accurate gauge for measuring. A slant-sided bowl leaves a lot of guess-work and is, at best, inaccurate and difficult to gauge "double". The "finger-tip test" is also an inaccurate test. Yeast bread is one of the most humbling foods we make in the kitchen!!! Hope your next attempt at this recipe is perfect! -Grainlady

Oh wow, I just got back from a shopping trip and I was so pleased to see the recipes and links, thank you! I can't wait to check it out. While I was out we stopped at Sam's and they had 2 - 1# packages on sale for under $5. Looked like a good deal to me, so of course I bought it. Well I'm looking at the package right now and it says "instant dry yeast". Is this the same as you get in the small packages at the grocery store? It's not the same as quick, is it? And what's bread yeast that's referred to in the Honey wheat rolls. Call me confused and let me tell you that this is the kind of thing that makes me another person that is yeast challenged. Thanks for your patience.

Do you remove the dough after the first rise to form rolls? I suggest a French bread recipe. Cooks.com recommends a pan of boiling water in the oven as they cook for a hard crust.