Here they are with Annie's comments: I recently made a couple of batches of honey wheat bread that I really liked. My "white bread" family chose the honey wheat dinner rolls over the white ones at Christmas and it's wonderful warm with some honey or jam. HONEY WHOLE WHEAT BREAD 3-1/2 to 4 cups all purpose flour 2-1/2 cups whole wheat flour 2 pkg. active dry yeast 2 tsp. salt 1 cup milk 1 cup water 1/2 cup honey 3 Tbsp. oil 1 egg In large bowl, combine 2 cups all-purpose flour, 1 cup whole wheat flour, the yeast, and salt and mix well. In saucepan, heat milk, water, honey, and oil until a thermometer reads 120-130 degrees F (warm) Add liquid mixture to flour mixture and stir to combine. Beat this batter for 3 minutes. Then, gradually stir in rest of whole wheat flour and enough remaining all-purpose four to form a firm dough. Sprinkle work surface with flour and knead dough, adding more flour if necessary, for 5-8 minutes until smooth and satiny. Place dough in a greased bowl, turning the dough in the bowl to grease the top. Cover and let rise in a warm place about 1 hour, until double in bulk. Punch down dough and divide into 2 pieces. On lightly floured surface, roll or press each piece of dough to a 14x7" rectangle. Starting with shorter side, roll up tightly, pressing dough into roll with each turn. Pinch edges and ends to seal and place dough, seam-side down, into greased 9x5" bread pans, making sure short ends of bread are snugly fitted against the sides of the pans. Cover and let rise in warm place until the dough fills the corners of the pans and is double in bulk, 30-40 minutes. Bake in preheated 375 degree oven for 35-40 minutes, until bread is golden brown. Remove from pans and cool on wire racks. I like to brush the bread with butter when it's still hot from the oven for a softer crust. Well, now I'm going to have to bake some more bread, maybe that Onion Braid....or some Maple Oatmeal....or Honey Wheat. Annie Sybil, here is that bread recipe, our family holidays wouldn't be the same without these rich and slighly sweet rolls. Grandma made cinnamon rolls out of the same dough. I do use bread flour, or add vital wheat gluten to the regular flour for a better rise. I usually double the recipe, sometimes triple it. I also make a single batch in my breadmaker on the "dough" cycle, then just form it into rolls and bake them. BREAD (GRANDMAS RECIPE) 1/3 cup sugar 1 cup milk 1/3 cup butter 2 eggs 1 pkg yeast 1 tsp salt 4  4 ½ cups flour vital wheat gluten (optional) Mix milk, butter and sugar, heat until butter melts and liquid is very warm. Add eggs, then beat in flour, salt and yeast until stiff dough forms. Turn onto floured surface and knead until smooth and elastic, 7  8 minutes. Turn dough into greased bowl and let rise in warm place until double. Punch down dough, shape into loaves or dinner rolls and let rise again. Bake at 350 until done (25 - 30 minutes for loaves, 12-15 minutes for dinner rolls) Makes 1 large or two small loaves or 18 dinner rolls Annie (posted by Carol)

Oh Renee, I couldn't agree more. I'm tired of being bullied because my view is stated in a different way than another poster's. There is a very small minority who think their recipes or techniques are the be-all/ end-all, "ubiquitous, know-it-all approach with narrow-minded views" of the culinary world. That is when unpleasantness rears its ugly head. When that happens, it is unfair to the whole forum. I for one would have left this thread a few posts ago, especially when I realized that one particular member refused to see the passive/ aggressive nature of their posts, then devolving into personal attacks to other posters. It's difficult to not defend one's integrity when it's called into question. Imagine how you would feel if someone referred to you as condescending, superior, a liar, a know-it-all. I believe that everyone but one person in this thread has agreed to disagree. I, for one, appreciate the beautiful photos many of our talented contributors generously post. It certainly takes additional time on their behalf to photograph the food, choose the appropriate photo for their post, then to share it with everyone. I learn how to plate food to make it look more appealing. I don't find it competitive, I find it encouraging. I think it has given a lot of us in this digital age the impetus to become more artistic, not only in our food preparation, but also in the art of presentation. How is that ever a bad thing? I think the main spirit of this forum is quite pleasant - these kinds of threads are very few and far between. I think that there will be a few of us that will be checking back to make sure no one else is being treated unfairly. Lori

Next time, maybe you could try the water and sugar in the mixer bowl first, add yeast, mix well, let stand 5 minutes - then start adding in the flour, a cup at a time, the butter, then the salt. I usually use the paddle/beater attachment to mix the ingredients, switching to the dough hook for the last cup or two of flour. Knead with the dough hook on speed 4 for about 5 minutes after all the flour is in and your dough should be ready. There are many different methods to reach the same end. This is just what I do when mixing bread recipes in a mixer. Now.....what will be the next recipe you try? Teresa

The great thing about all purpose flour is that you can use it for all purposes. There are a few different kinds of wheat that are our main supply. Other forms are usually given a separate name, such as einkorn, spelt, emmer, farro (which can actually be three different ones, but is usually used for the one with the biggest berry). For the full explanation of the wheat varieties, search on Grainlady and read her posts. Basically, however, there are some that have 12-14% protein, from which gluten is developed, 8-10%, and 6%-ish. AP flour is a blend of high and low protein flours to make one that's around 10.5%, with some variation by company. KA AP is higher in protein than most other APs and very appropriate for many breads, but not so great for cake. Some bread flour is very high protein, and most is a percent or two more than the AP from the same company. Cake flour is usually about 8% protein and pastry flour is 6%. You don't want to develop gluten for cakes and pastries! That's why you're warned not to overbeat them. You can't tell the protein content based on the nutrition label. It gets lost in the rounding error. KA and some others label their bags with the actual protein content. So, the point of bread flour is that the higher protein content develops more gluten, making for a stronger rise. That's not necessarily a higher rise. For that, they often put malted barley in the flour, more often AP, because it's already a blend, as well as enriched (vitamins and minerals) if it's bleached. The stronger gluten will show in the crumb structure and texture. Bread is whatever you want it to be. If you're making bread you like with the flour you have, then it's good! If someone else prefers another, that's good too. Some people prefer a stronger cake from AP, some like a flyaway light cake crumb from cake flour. Some people mix their own to get it just right. Unless you're in a competition with a particular standard sheet that it's being judged to, none of this matters so long as you and those you're feeding like what you're making, so don't let it get to you.