Hello JFKeeler,

I am a member of the Masonry Heater Association so needless to say I am a heater enthusiast and believer.

I built a Finnish masonry heater in my house last winter. The house is ~1800 square feet, two living stories built about 75 years ago. I placed it between the kitchen and living room. I used excellent plans written by heater pioneer Albie Barden of Maine Wood Heat.

Masonry heaters are the best way to burn cordword. The firebox is designed to carefully control combustion. It burns much hotter than a typical open English fireplace ( from 1650-1900F vs. less than 900F). This consumes the fuel much more efficiently and produces very little pollution or smoke. A properly designed and operated heater will not smoke or produce creosote. The exhaust gasses also pass through a series of channels to more effectively transfer the heat produced by the fire before exiting the chimney. Despite the exceptionally high combustion temperatures, masonry heaters are extremely safe. The fire is entirely contained and the heat is slowly absorbed and released over the next 14-20 hours.

A few things to consider:
1. Central location: Heaters work best in an open floor plan, or at least a large space. They also should be placed in areas that are going to be used most often by the family. Heaters are frequently used as wall dividers. The bake oven option works well dividing a kitchen space from another room. You may also wish to consider the location of your fuel (wood) for convenient loading.

2. Chimney: The fires burn very cleanly but still need to exhaust. So you need minimally a 8"round flue. You can build a new masonry or stainless steel chimney. Exisiting chimneys in good shape (inspected) can also be used but the heater can not share a flue with another device (furnace, hot water heater). I used an existing unused flue in the chimney of my house. It was not in good shape for safety or code. I had to reline it with an insulated stainless steel liner.

3. Footing/foundation: Masonry heaters by definition have ALOT of mass. Large Finnish and Russian models can weigh thousands of pounds. A 12" thick concrete pad reinforced with concrete is needed in most areas for a footing. The heater also needs a block foundation to bring it up to floor height (this foundation can also act as a long term ash dump). So you need to think about the footprint of the heater, or what is under the location you would like to put it. There are a few smaller heaters. Tulikivi may have a few that do not require additional support.

4. Clearances: Heaters operate at a low, comfortable external temperature. gernerally not exceeding ~160F except around the metal loading doors so code clearances are fairly small. You need 4" minimum to combustables on the sides and rear of the heater. The loading doors require a noon combustible hearth of at least 20". Eight inches of clearance is required above the heater top.

5. Secondary Heat: Except in the most perfect of cases, heaters can not be used as the only heat source. Large houses and compartmentalized designs comprimise the effectiveness of heaters. At the very least, back up heat is needed when the heater is not used, vacation for example.

6. Lifestyle: Heaters require more personal involvement in our role of providing energy. It is not as simple as turning the dial on the thermostat. To experience the real benefits of the heater, it should become a part of your daily routine. Will stacking an armload of wood and watching it burn every day be a pleasure or a chore? Personally, I look forward to burning my heater every night.

7. Heater style: I think this is the fun part. Heaters come in a variety of shapes and sizes. You can choose an almost limitless combination of masonry materials and designs for the outer veneer. Bricks, granite, soapstone, bluestone or plaster are common material choices. You can choose to place heated benches for warm reading and relaxing, shelves and hollows for collectables or pets, and even a bakeoven in the design.

Just a few things that came to mind. I would highly recommend Norbert Senf's planning guide at http://www.mha-net.org/msb/docs/Man00.PDF or you can find it through the mha-net.org website.

As for my own heater, I could not be more pleased with the results. Everything I read about the burning efficiency and benefits of radiant heat were true. The bakeoven may be the greatest surprise. I use it every night.

I live in NJ and have burned only about a cord of wood halfway through this mild winter. My exisiting gas furnace rarely comes on. My only regret is not incorporating a domestic hot water heating system in the masonry heater design.

Although I would certainly do it again and look forward to my next chance, it was a substantial project to take on. Cost will vary dramatically based on the retrofit situation and the heater design choices. Without any other needed work (footing, foundations, carpentry to open floors or a roof for a chimney, or the chimney) a heater will cost from $5000 and up. Heaters have a very long life and provide substantial benefits to personal and global health.

There are alot of good resources on the web about heaters, the best place to start is probably mha-net.org. Good luck, hope you get a chance to enjoy a heater.

I recently received a (very) rough estimate for the smallest Tulikivi offered, the model TL750 (I think). The Cost of the unit was around $4K. Install including a black SS chimney was around $1500. Additionally, I would need to hire someone to construct the proper structural support (we are on a basement), and the Tulikivi distributor thought that added cost would be between $1-2K. So for around $7500, I would have a fully installed small Tulikivi.

One note about clearances. Their brochure mentioned a need for 20" to the wall behind the stove, but a simple steel heat shield reduced that clearance to 3 or 4". Forgive me, but I'm doing this from memory.

The unit was rated to be able to heat 800 to 1000 sq ft, which more than satisfied our requirements. We haven't made a decision yet as to whether we are going to install this unit or install a different kind of fireplace or stove.

Excellent posts above. FWIW, I had the opportunity to see a firing of the masonry heater described in the link below. On that page, about mid-way down, there are a couple of pictures of the substantial reinforcement they built to support this heater. For us, the masonry heater did not make economic sense when compared to a woodstove, but I wish they had!

Here is a link that might be useful: Fairbanks Masonry Heater

We have a Tulikivi 2700 and absolutely love it.

Are you using these masonry heaters as your sole source of heat?

How much wood do your burn each season? (what is your "back up"?).

(good info. from klip)

But honestly, how realistic is a Tulikivi for people who work for wages?! let's be honest...

We use between 2 and 3 cords of wood to heat the house (2400 sq ft) and have a heat pump as backup. However, the Tulikivi alone can keep the temp around 67, which with radiant heat, seems warmer than 67 in a forced air setting. Not sure why.

I can't provide any statistics, but through associations and friendships in the MHA, I know of quite a few people using masonry heaters as their primary heat source. Often, however, the houses were designed with a central heater in mind to maximize it's benefits. The heaters are also larger than tulikivi, more like the stone or brick large mass examples on the MHA gallery page.

In Finland, a new house must have a least one masonry heater/chimney to get a government approved mortgage. This is often the primary heat source.

I burn about 2 cords of hardwood a season with a large brick Finnish contraflow masonry heater in New Jersey. I have a few friends with similarly sized heaters who also use about 2-3 cords of wood over a winter. They live in larger houses and the heaters are not the primary heat.

The heater is my primary heat in a two story ~1800sqft house. Even in the coldest weather the heater has provided the bulk of the heat. I was most surprised how well the second story was warmed. My bedroom directly above the heater is one of the warmest rooms in the house. This heat transfer is not just hot air rising up the steps. The heater warms the ceilings with energy from radiation as well as convection. The floors soak up this heat and radiate upstairs in turn. The upstairs floors often stay above 70F.

The house has a natural gas boiler with steam radiators that now acts as backup. It sees the most use when I am unable to burn the heater if I'm working late or away for a few days. My gas bill has dropped dramatically from my first winter here with no heater (~70%).

But I do have to do some work. Again, it's not just turning the thermostat up higher. I've been fortunate to get all of my wood for free, but I spend some time loading and unloading my truck. I spend about two full days chopping wood in the spring to have it out to season over the summer. A few more hours stacking and restacking over until winter. Then, of course, I have to load the heater. In the coldest weather I'll burn it in the morning and at night.

Certainly this is not for everyone. But I can drastically reduce my use of fossil fuels as well as my energy bill and heat my house with a clean burning renewable energy source. I get to enjoy a brightly burning fire every night while I cook delicious meals in my bakeoven. And it provides a delightful heat.

Dixielogs mentioned how the 67F "feels warmer" with radiant heat. This is one of the most difficult concepts with masonry heaters or any radiant heat source. The best example is to think of a cold but very sunny day. The air temperature may be quite cold, but the thermal radiation from the sun still keeps you warm. It is a different form of heat transfer.

Most of us are used to equating heat with air temperature. This is especially true with forced air systems. Masonry heaters work differently. There is heat exchange to the air (air nearby the heater wams up and rises creating the "contraflow" in the Finnish designs) but more significantly the heater radiates heat in the room. The air temperature in the rooms with my heater usually measure low 60's but I am often barefoot in a tshirt. There is still energy transfered to make me feel warm but it is not just hot air. Radiant heat also produces less dust, does not dry the air out, and produces much less temperature stratification in the room.

Tulikivi has great info on their site about radiant heat benefits and better explanations. I am not a Tulikivi expert by any means but I can say I have never once heard a complaint from any owner. They burn wood very very cleanly, heat up more quickly than the large brick heaters I've been going on about, and can move with you. Obviously, a Tulikivi is beautiful as well.

There's a place in Vermont that makes similar soapstone heaters, I think, greenmountainsoapstone. There's also a neat modular small heater design by a bright guy in the Netherlands called a Tigchel Oven, tigchelkachels.nl.

I know these are all still more expensive than a new EPA certified woodstove. But the higher initial investment will reduce the amount of wood you burn over the year(s) for higher heat benfit. The wood is also burned much more cleanly (higher temperatures). A properly built heater can last more than twenty years. A properly burned heater requires little to no maintainance and less chimney cleaning.

Not for everyone, but certainly a responsible option for some.

that is a good explanation on how they work so well. Our Tulikivi weighs in at 11,000 pounds so there is a lot of stone to act as a thermal storage for the heat and radiate it off. Most folks think that the loft right above it will be hot, but the temperature only varies a couple of degrees.

I baked some sugar cookies in the bakeover yesterday while the fire was going below. I did not have to put a fire in the bakeover as it was hot enough. We have done quite a bit of cooking in ours, and this past December when we were without power for a full week, it was wonderful.

Dixie
Your Tulikivi(2700) cost 22,000 base without the foundation or the chimney liner. That is tres expensive for most American homes UNLESS it is the main heating unit for the home.You also negelected to mention you & your husband are dealers for Tulikivi or that is what is listed on the Tulikivi website. Notice that they don't put prices on that website for anything,yet on every other website for masonry heaters I have seen there is a price list available for ALL customers even if it is MSRP. Why is that?

Dear all,

I have built my own finnish fireplace and i have now been using it for 3 months. It works extremely well and i have reduced my heating bill by 2/3. Moreover it is very satisfying to heat without pollution and without pumping out natural ressources. For those interested i have described on my blog all the construction steps:www.360.yahoo.com/henrymarchal

Ririplus
or Henry Marchal

Went to the 360.yahoo.com site , which was harder than u know what to actually get there. 360 is a new (beta) blogging site for Yahoo.You must LOG in to use it. Only thing that was there was your picture. The only post. No information. Stop wasting our time Henry or whatever your name is.

Dear woodinvirginia,

Sorry you cannot access the blog. It has been visited by hundreds since its inception so i know it is working. You do not have to log in. You can always try http://diymasonryheater.blogspot.com.and follow link. Hope you can reach it now.

Our main business is log homes. Most of our customers were looking at spending between $14-18K for a stone fireplace that was better at sucking the heat out of the house rather than adding heat. Yes, Tulikivi masonry heaters cost more. However, they also provide a lot more heat. Ours is our primary heat source.

Per the rules of this forum, which I have found very useful for my own research in remodeling a kitchen, I refuse to further discuss the pricing listed on any website.

Ririplus...
Being a YHOO groups moderator/member, and always wanting to activate my 360 account, I signed up and went on to your site and am very impressed with your accomplishment. Nice picture series of the buildup. I am going the same "build it yourself" route, since the costs and waiting period to have a "certified" person install one IMO is too over-priced. I plan to do a picture sequence and digital video also of some of the more difficult steps of my build. Once again, congrats.

hi fourwheelin,

Thanks for yr comments. No doubt you will let us know about yr blog and yr efforts. All the best for yr project and if i can be of any help do not hesitate. It is a great and worthwhile effort for our planet.

For those who have problems accessing my yahoo 360, i have copied it on: www.diymasonryheater.blogspot.com

Henry, My humble apolgies for doubting you but I can clearly get to THIS URL where you have the information in both English & French. I have Belgium neighbors (Servais) as my best friends ^-^ on my road in Virginia. So how much did this cost you in materials to build? How long did the project take? Did you use lime Mortar throughout the whole project? How long did you let it setup BEFORE firing it?
[Suggest you also go to the treehugger.com site & place your new url there also;You had placed one there on February 7,2006. People may have difficulty just like I did in getting to the 360 degree .yahoo.com listing.
Will have my mason look into trying this ourselves.....not paying exorbitant sums to Tulikivi for shipping or rebuilding their works of art!

Dear woodinvirginia,
First before building it myself i had a look at a Tulikivi. I came to the conclusion that it was not for me and i am not only referring to the price tag.
My MH is a corner unit and it takes more time to build because all the bricks have to be sawn. All in all it took me about 45 days. Of course it would go much quicker if i had to do it again.
The cost: 3132 Euros. That includes everything, bricks, doors and the design fees which i got from my friend Heikki Hytiainen who designed the first modern contraflow.
As i say in the blog, from the base of the firebox up, i have used refractory mortar for the firebox ( with refractory bricks ), clay mortar for the inner wall, and common lime mortar fo the outside skin.
The heater had to be run in for about 3 weeks during which you only make a quick and smallish fire. you can always go to Heikki's book " Finnish fireplaces the heart of the home " to find more ideas although heater designs have since evolved.
If you are serious about it remember this: a masonry heater weighs minimum 3Tons, has a fairly low surface temperature 55c, and a large radiating surface. Be aware of everything else.

ririplus,
I have a couple construction questions...did you leave your piping in your secondary air injector castings like some folks do, or did you cast the pieces and then remove all the pipes? I am wondering which way would be the best when I build my forms. Was thinking the expansion differential between the metal pieces and the refractory could open up a stress cracking situtation once air flow is stopped and the pipes begin to absorb the surrounding tempertures. The flip side is that with out the pipes left in, there could be a strength issue, since these components will have to bear a lot of weight from above. Stress cracks with pipes left in wouldn't be a real big issue, since the pieces are up high in the fire box and the air supply stream would not be affected, but I will try to avoid any longevity issues upfront.
Next, what did you use for the supply piping? I am going to research the smallest growth metals that can still be fitted to the air supply easily. Copper, just as an example, can grow some 40% after heat is applied according to some, so will definetly need to find the lowest expanding product. Thanks in advance.

I choose to made castings around tubes sprayed with silicone. This was recommended by Heikki Hytiainen who is doing constant researches. Mind you a couple of months before when attending a workshop in Tchecz Republic with the same Heikki we used steel tubes that were left inside... Do not be overly worried about the weight as the bricks are interlocked with the back wall. After a couple rows the weight is spread. The important factor is the quality of the casting. Do not use too much water. I used a product from Lafarge and artificial gravel also from Lafarge. Oh by the way i discovered recently that it is necessary to provide covers for these air injectors. I made these after everything was finished but you might as well think about it now. Good Luck.

So I take it you removed your tubing? I am aware of concrete/refractory strengths from too wet a mix, as I've done work in the past with various products, but thanks for the tip on weight distribution.
Covers? I will be using a shutoff to that air supply, so plan to not need anything to block the holes from within the fire box. Is that what you are referring to?

Hi fourwheelin,

Yes i removed the tubing indeed. I did 4 halves and then i glued them together two by two with refractory mortar.

For the air injectors i meant blocking both air intakes which in my design, come outside on either sides of the door. If you look carefully at the picture you will know what i mean.

I have a very strong draft so that if i do not block these when liting a fire the air coming from the injectors is blowing off the little flames.

ririplus,
I must admit feeling pretty dumb in asking those questions. I just re-looked at your photo's and was not aware of the enlarging feature previously. Clearly evident now that indeed you did a split molding and interior room air feed through the two ports on either side of your glass door. I plan to design an air wash to keep the door glass a bit cleaner and maybe a two stage secondary air injection. One feed about 6 courses or so up in the first bell (fire chamber), and then another smaller feed at the throat neck. I will know a lot more once my scale model is built and tested with various air placements within. Thanks again.

Hi fourwheelin,

No harm done. Asking questions and experience sharing that is the purpose of these forums. I take that you are going for a 3rd combustion? If so let me know.That could be interesting. However i learned this summer that the secondary combustion or post combustion is somewhat less important than once primarily thought. According to Heikki the measurements show that smokes are being greatly accelerated in the throat and this increase pressure cause these gas to inflame in the throat itself. The big guys like Tulikivi and Nunauni tend to decrease the size of the throat. For all it is worth... My experience so far is that there is potential for improvment with regards to the air manifolds or injectors. In mine the last 2 holes ( closerto the back ) seem to be working far better than the front ones. I thought this may be due to the sloping of the throat but i am not a specialist...

Hi Ririplus,
Not a third combustion, just a more complete secondary. Using patterned nozzles of pre-heated air supplied right in the throat (like you just eluded too), plus other various methods from the wood gas combuster field, can produce a better Vortex. I think too much air is being supplied below fire in some stoves, deluting the effectivness of the gases, and not enough is supplied in the correct areas above.
Researching the grate design methods and best air distribution box location. Yes, the air tubes and nozzles are being made too simple. Air will cling to one side and miss a lot of heat transfer. The degree angle of the fire box walls is important also. Angled walls see more friction. Lots of stuff to sift through before first molding of test model.

Just to give an update on my masonry heater's performances after 4 months of intensive use. We have used so far 7 steres of soft wood ( i think it must be equal to 4 cords?). For the first month or so we lit 2 fires/day. Since, we are down to one fire/day which allows the central heating system to kicks in for about 1/2h in the morning and the same in the evening. That takes care of the rooms which are not directly heated by the masonry heater. The bedrooms which are above the living room are heated by the masonry heater without problems. Our natural gas consumption is down by as much as 75%. As to our confort, well it is sensational. We have discovered radiant warmth and chances are we will never go back to anything else. Of course it does come with chores ( carrying the wood, preparing the fire..) but it is such a small price to pay for so many benefits including the immense satisfaction you get when you know you have done something for our planet.

Another Branch of Soapstone Heater is now being imported to the USA it is called Willach Soapstone. They are offered by various dealers. The people their seem more responsive than those at the other brands. ^-^

Hi fourwheelin,

This forum is dead or so it seems. How are things developping? Are you getting anywhere? Any photos or is it kept secret?

Hi ririplus
OT: I am involved with paperwork for this house addition, so no new developments. Hopefully things will progress quickly so I can keep moving toward building phase. The closer I get to that, the sooner I'll be working on the first model, as I'll need clear dimensional footprint for the foundation. Looks like I will be needing a masonry to stainless chimney connection. Have not researched the best one or where to get it yet. I will be running triple wall stainless 8" flue pipe to save time and space through to the upstairs/attic, and then box frame and brick facing so it appears as a full masonry chimney outside.
I see there was some new data on the Lopez Labs site with some great time lapsed videos of actual burns. Check em out.

Hi fourwheelin,

For yr chimney, do keep in mind that the chimney can be part of the accumulation mass. I did mine with bricks ( well to be honest i only had to rebuild one floor and then reconnected to the existing chimney ). I am very happy that i did so because with a rooftop damper, the whole lenght if the chimney catches the heat and releases it ( mainly upstairs ). I know that in the US you are forced to have a lined chimney which in my view is a luxury ( when you have a co detector ). Still with a single wall stainless steel surrounded by bricks... I know it is additional work...

Klip where in NJ are you from. I am planning on building a stove this summer , i live outside of princeton nj

Another alternative using Tulikivi Soapstone & a CastIron wood burning fireplace are some models from Rais and Wittus,it is a Finnsih design imported to America and it appears mainly to be supplemental heating. Thought I'd mention it since some homes are smaller than others but still want to have the option for a woodburner.

Still another finnish option is to have an Isokern (Volcanic rock Pumice based)built in & they have a model that can be built on a combustable floor and have its exterior finished using Soapstone or Tile. Did you know that most of the fireplaces in CrackerBarrel restaurants are Isokern's? That is a heck of a recommendation.

I have to say I currently have a Heatilator Fireplace installed and it is poor at best. I have not reviewed other designs...but this one is poor. Masons can do better! The previous owner installed a Buck 28000 in a slam installation which I since have relined and sealed the chimney. In the process I destroyed the fireplace box and it sucked any way so..... no loss. However I have since re-done a few aspects of the Buck's original designed stove and now I have the most effecient insert on the market and it is not a catylyst model. I can burn 4 oak logs for 9+ hours getting heat and this in unheard of in this model wood stove. Some engineer screwed up big time at the onset of the original Bucks design and I solved it.
Obewan