I clipped this post from a previous discussion on gas inserts to provide additional info on the subject. Posted by: renron on 12.19.2006 at 07:28 pm in Fireplaces Forum First, DON'T install a ventless fireplace!!! Even though the MFG.s will tell you the exhaust fumes are OK, do you really want to breathe them? Many people end up with Major Headaches and chronic breathing issues. Does it sound like a good idea to breathe burnt exhaust gasses? B type flue(vent) pipes are dual thickness pipes. A pipe inside another pipe, suitable for use at 1" or more to flammable materials. Outer casing pipe is sealed and will not conduct air. D (Direct Vent) type flue(vent) pipes are also dual layers but they are capable of exhausting burnt gas through the inner pipe and importing exterior(outside) combustion air for burning. Think of a straw inside a larger straw. Inside straw blowing, outside straw sucking outside air for combustion. A fan is usually used to help exhaust the burnt gasses. Details below: B-Vent (Natural Vent) gas fireplaces are designed primarily for decorative use. Generally they produce a larger and more realistic yellow flame. B-vent fireplaces are sometimes available without a glass window, so many homeowners are attracted to this design because of the open, realistic flame effect; some models do have a glass window so the existence of a window on a fireplace does not define its product classification. Natural vent gas fireplaces use room air for combustion and vent fumes through a vent or chimney that must terminate vertically above the roof line. The key to determining whether a B-vent fireplace will meet your heating needs is to check the manufacturer's listed efficiency rating (gas consumed x efficiency = heat output). While efficient, heater-rated B-vent fireplaces do exist, many lower quality "builder grade" fireplaces have no efficiency rating and, therefore, will not supply substantial heat. In fact, this category of fireplace will often use the greatest amount of gas at the lowest range of efficiencies. If you live in a warmer climate where you want the aesthetics of a fire without much heat, this may be the appliance for you. Likewise, bedrooms and smaller rooms may be a good candidate for a b-vent fireplace, but please check building codes to see if this class of fireplace is approved in your locality or for installation in the room where you'd like to use it. Local/national codes in some areas prohibit the use of b-vent rated appliances, especially in colder climates. Be aware that very "air tight" houses can cause performance problems with b-vent rated appliances, so please consult an experienced fireplace installer who can advise you on the proper installation and use you are considering. Direct Vent Fireplaces offer the most features with respect to gas consumption, efficiency ratings and venting options. A direct vent fireplace will always have a glass window because these fireplaces are sealed systems using a double walled venting system. Combustion air enters the appliance via one section of pipe while fumes and moisture are vented through the other pipe. Most often, a double wall "pipe within a pipe" system is used. Subject to each model's requirements for distance and offsets, direct vent fireplace venting may be terminated either horizontally or vertically. Efficiency rating will average 65% to 84%, similar to ratings on gas furnaces. Keep in mind that these appliances must "waste" some of the heat produced to create a draft of rising warm air to evacuate the fumes produced without aid of a forced air exhaust system. Think of direct vent fireplaces as a decorative furnace: the beauty of a realistic flame with high efficiency. This appliance is great for primary or supplental heating and for emergency backup heating as most work without aid of electricity. Because this is a sealed system that uses outside air for combustion, direct vent fireplaces are usually the favored choice among those in the fireplace industry because of their greater efficiency and exceptionally reliable performance. Hope this info helps, I am a General Contractor. Renron

theblaiser While probably not telling you anything you don't already know, you have two of the most expensive forms of fuel for winter heating. I am attaching a fuel comparison calculator which will give you a close estimate. You will need the efficiency on your LP gas stove/inserts. Of course the baseboard electric heat has no efficiency. Just plug in the electric cost and the calculator will spit out a cost for baseboard heat. It appears LP is more expensive using an average electric cost of $.115/kw. A high eff heat pump would save you some significant $$$. Hope this is helpful. IMO Here is a link that might be useful: Fuel Comparison Calculator

Any fuel burning stove inside a living space must be properly vented for safety, i.e., hooked up to a working chimney or certified flue pipe. One must never heat an enclosed space with a combustion device that is not vented. Those unvented kerosene burners are for use outside and in ventilted spaces like a garage. The combustion gases will get you! and if it did not, oxygen depletion would. I was raised in a small farmhouse that did not have electricity until after I was 11 yrs old. It was heated with a wood burner with the heat distributed by radiation and natural convection - no fans. During the coldest part of winter, the living room stove plus the kitchen cooking stove were both fired. Today, I have a friend who augments his heat with a small wood burner and it is very effective. His burner is of simple design without fans. A fireplace of conventional construction is a poor space heater. Most of the heat goes up the chimney. A few firepalces have heat exchanger air channel built into the brickwork, and these are about 2 times more effective as an ordinary fireplace. Some designs have a fan to help. The next class of fireplace has a metal insert with airways and fan. These are the most effective of fireplace designs, but must be inspected on a rigorous schedule to insure there has not been a burn-through to the airway. A carbon-monoxide detector should be employed in the room with a firelace insert. A wood/coal burner is much more efficient than fireplaces. Similar stoves using natural gas or propane may be installed in place of a wood burner. Check you local codes for flue construction and materials. In extreme cold, say -20 F, propane stored in an outside tank may not provide enough pressure to operate properly.

I guess you are out in the boonies with no nat gas. I can't help with equipment. It is a relatively low volume kind of demand for equipment, I'm sure. You may be forced into the industrial/commercial area and if you are not big enough, you may be out of luck. Assuming that you can get a suitably sized unit, if your hydronic system is designed to deliver heat with a low enough water temperature, it can probably be done efficiently. What is the water temperature currently set to? Try heatinghelp.com and terrylove.com. I've seen some good hydronic heat/boiler threads in both places. If you have to stick with an electric boiler, you might look at the installation of a large storage tank and going to day/night rates. You'd have to run some numbers to see if it will work for you.