Re: "Posted by jasonmi7 (My Page) on Sat, Apr 11, 09 at 22:55 My question is; if many of you feel there should be much more strict standards on GC licensing; what are you doing to make it happen? How many of you have contacted your state legislatures, your congresspeople, run petitions? What have you done?" Good point and one I hope every reader takes to heart. I personally have become quite involved in local politics over this exact issue. I've also been involved w/consumer organizations that deal w/the issue, signed petitions, written countless letters, etc. Many people quickly become discouraged and give up, when they find out the legislators are more interested in getting campaign donations from the local buiders association. But I think in time, if people stick to it, they often have some success. I've kind of concluded that licensing is not in itself a good solution--there needs to be a licensing board that is not just run by builders as that's just more self-regulation and it never works. A bond is a good idea, but also there needs to be a public complaint database that isn't censored by the govt or builders or anyone. Criminalizing certain construction frauds is also needed. Educating consumers is also needed and that's something anyone can do, to share what they know about their construction mishaps, what they learned about the state's licensing or lack of it, etc. I was, and still am, determined to make my bad experience be worth something, so I continue to work in these issues and encourage others to do the same. If you want things to improve you have to work on it. It doesn't work if people just sit there and assume a handful of consumer advocates like hadd.com and hobb.org will do all the work. They need numbers of people to help. Citizen apathy is a very bad thing, whether it's about homebuilding, taxes, health care or any issue.

Sorry for the length of this: It's half-amusing, half-offensive to be accused of shilling for anyone, since Im as self-taught as one can possibly be. Dreamgarden seems to have ignored all my many posts on other threads over the years. So let me restate my (lack of) credentials to reassure you that I have no vested interest in whether anyone ever uses a planner, advisor, broker, or banker. Havent earned a penny from anyone since 2006 when I retired and the last time I met my ex-boss for lunch, I bought HIM lunch, LOL. For the record, most of my friends and all of my family are like DH & me - we don't have enough liquid assets to be of interest to most financial planners. I have free access to CFPs thru DHs retirement portfolio, but I dont need them. Why? Because I enjoy finance and investing the same way I enjoy reading history, science, and mystery novels IOW, for the sheer fun of it. I read extensively Ive had a subscription to the on-line WSJournal since it was first offered, and read it every day plus I clip articles obsessively from a variety of websites. But I would NEVER assume that others want to spend their time the same way. Old Joyful, for instance, likes to invest in individual stocks. He and I had a recent discussion thread about this. I have no interest in anything but mutual funds. Individual stocks dont fit into our tax and financial situation. I have the healthiest respect for his knowledge and acumen, but the fact remains, he lives in Canada and I live in the US. My financial planning is going to be very different than his, just as my goals are different. I know from our own experience how hard it is to sit down and do estate planning. We dont have much of an estate compared to many, yet it took us decades to learn to identify the things we needed to do, so we could finally do the things we wanted to do. Ignorance is most certainly NOT bliss, as we, and so many others, have discovered! I am a firm believer that we should be teaching some of this stuff in school. The world has changed rapidly and drastically, and us middle-class Boomers are stuck trying to figure out a world so much more dangerous than our parents grew up with. If you read my post more carefully, you would see that I wrote that even cheapie (e.g., simple) plans can at least provide a starting point. I do my own planning, using the WSJournal calculators (a subset of which are available on Schwabs website, or so Ive been told). Ive tried others on the web, but wasnt satisfied as they cant be altered to fit our own unusual circumstances. If a simple planning software can help someone, all to the good. I havent found them very helpful, but that doesnt mean I call them all garbage. WSJs toolset comes closest to allowing me to set the appropriate parameters, without having to pay someone to do a plan for us. Why should I pay, when I have the knowledge to do it myself? Its not hard, it just takes some effort and decision-making. THIS is what a planner is for: to help you (if you cant do it yourself) quantify where you are right now, and where you want to be. This is related to investing, but investing is only a very modest part of it. Its the planning process thats critical, yet not well understood. YOU must do the decision-making. No software program or customized plan means anything if you cant accept the reality of what your current circumstances are, and are willing to work at reaching your goals. I recently talked a young family member out of seeing a planner because I was able to help her identify some long-term goals. She also needed some very basic help diversifying her portfolio. In a decade or so they should probably meet with a planner to ensure theyre on track for whatever their goals are at that time. But until then I told her there was no reason to consult with anyone unless a life-changing event occurs. Its more important for her to have all legal docs in order, at this stage of life. I learned a lot from my ex-boss "G", but I have never referred anyone to him. The people I know who have enough money for financial advisors, already have them. The one time I was emailed off-line to ask for an intro, I refused to do so as the specific circumstances of that person made it inappropriate, in my view. "G" is semi-retired, but stays in the business because he loves working with people. He does a lot of pro bono work and is both well known and respected here as he's been active in professional organizations for over 30 yrs now. He trains his office staff not so much on what to do, but what NOT to do. He is ethical and very, very precise about working for the good of his clients, which is why he has many families who are second- and third-generation clients. BTW, Madoffs clients should have known something was "funny" just in the fact he had them writing out checks to his name. Thats a definite no-no the assets should always be held by a third-party institution. The woman (also a CFP) who works in "Gs" office and produces the financial plans is a former elder care specialist who got into the financial side late in life. These customized plans cost a minimum of $4K and range up to $10K. They are certainly NOT for everyone, but when appropriate, can make a huge difference in someone's life. Most people dont need them, but the ones who do, need them a great deal! I worked with some of those clients, and their lives were definitely better for having gotten a good financial plan and then executed it properly. Actually, now that I think of it I did refer someone to my ex-boss. I told my DH that if I die before he does, he's to sell the house (I maintain it and the garden in addition to all the finances; he has no interest in such things), take the insurance proceeds, and bring the money to "G" to handle. You did not have a good advisor. Thats not your fault. Its hard to evaluate credentials when youre on that steep learning curve. But a good advisor isnt looking for the next hot thing for you a good advisor helps you identify your goals and gives you a roadmap on how to get from where you are to where you want to be. A good advisor says "no" to you almost as often as s/he says "yes." Its important, but difficult, to learn how to differentiate the good from the bad. The more educated we are in this area, the better we can tell who can help us and who cannot. Id liken financial planning/investing to painting a room. You can do it the sloppy easy way. You can do a "sorta-kinda" okay paintjob, shoving the furniture out the way and covering it. Or, you can do more extensive prep work: masking the moldings, laying dropcloths, priming and using two coats. You can use cheap paint and cheap brushes. You can use top quality paint and the best brushes or rollers. Its always your choice. Each method gets the job done, to varying levels of satisfaction, cost, time expended, and durability. Saying that **ALL** CFPs are worthless is like saying all professional painters are worthless. Some are, and some arent. Some people need one all the time/every time, and some only need one on occasion. It isnt for me OR for you to make that unilateral judgment. Using a pro for anything is always an individual decision that should never be taken lightly. Nor should that decision be disparaged, once made. Often a pro does do a better job than an amateur can. Sure, a talented amateur can sometimes better a pro but they need the talent, the interest, the skill, and the time. Not everyone has those in equal measure. To expect it of every person is unrealistic and unfair. I feel fortunate to have had the generous and thoughtful assistance of others in my life. Weve had some serious setbacks that could easily have turned out badly, but in the end everything worked out (so far at least!). If I can help others avoid some of the mistakes we've made, then I feel its worth the effort. We did okay (my ROI over 25 yrs is way better than average), but perhaps we could have done better if we hadnt been so ignorant for so long. We were at times the recipients of sheer dumb luck, but thats something one shouldnt be counting on to happen. Dreamgarden, may you have better luck in the future finding people or resources able to help you.

Experts are baffled that investors and regulators did not wise up to the ruse sooner. "I'm shocked investors turned a blind eye to returns that were too good to be true, constant, steady, small, positive returns," said Jim Vos, of the hedge-fund consulting firm Aksia LLC. But Madoff apparently made them an offer that was too good to be scrutinized. Madoff was single-handedly managing billions of dollars in offices he kept separate from the rest of his firm, said Vos, who steered clients away from the fund. The only oversight was conducted in a Rockland County accounting office only slightly larger than a cubicle. And Madoff, who made his fortune embracing the latest and best technology, forbade investors to get online access to their accounts, insisting instead on paper printouts. "When something is too good to be true, it probably is," Vos said. For well over a decade, competitors and experts said they found Madoff's track record suspicious. He seemed immune to any volatility in the market and, no matter what was happening in the economy at large, managed to finish each month with almost identical profits. Markopolos, who worked for a Madoff competitor when he made the charge of fraud, continued to cry foul for years, to little avail. Madoff dismissed these attacks as envy and said critics simply did not understand the complexities of his strategies. Some 11 to 25 investors at a time, it seems, were willing to play along - at least before the economic meltdown in recent months persuaded them to pull out. They told Madoff they wanted to liquidate their assets, not realizing Madoff had already vaporized them. Aksia LLC was hired to investigate Madoff several years ago, said principal Jake Walthour. The probe only increased the concerns about the fund. Madoff's returns were "abnormally smooth" from month to month, and it seemed impossible to replicate his investment strategy or verify his track record. Madoff claimed to be moving as much as $13 billion in and out of the market every month, but "no one on the street could verify it or even see his footprints," Walthour said. "That organization was incredibly secretive." When they staked out the tiny accounting firm no one had ever heard of, investigators concluded something was amiss. "We decided there are several scenarios here, one of which is, this could be a Ponzi scheme," Walthour said. "None of our clients invested." Those who have invested in the fund have told investigators that withdrawing cash from it was an arduous process that involved faxes and inexplicable delays. That's because in a Ponzi scheme, money from new investors is used to pay those seeking to withdraw their money Keep drinking the kool-aid, investors who turn a blind eye on the shenanigans because of unusually high/constant rates of return deserve SOME blame,perhaps,lol

I read that he sent a message to his wife, who was in Florida with their other child, that she should have someone check on their little son. She was alarmed at this and called for help. Their toddler was still asleep in another room when his dad was found, so he didn't see what happened. From what I read it doesn't look like Bernie Madoff's sons were "in on" his scheme originally, although they may have suspected something was fishy and did profit from the money. Bernie told both sons about what he had done shortly before the police arrested him, and they shared with police and the court what their father had said about his crimes. Whatever our opinions about what happened, this is a tragedy. My thoughts go out to his loved ones.