There are two rats that eat your cheese. One agency comes annually to almost all of us (except the *very* low income ones), with a question and a statement. The question is, "How much did you make?" and the statement is, "We want part of it" ... ...except that there are some who earn substantial amounts, whose tax-accountants and tax-lawyers can help them avoid much of the fee. That's the rat of income tax - that eats annually into your income. The other rat is called inflation. Just after World War II, which ran from Aug. '39 till Aug '45, when cars were really hard to get, as there'd been none built for civilians during the war, Dad had a new Ford "Monarch" on order for many months, then the dealer told him that it would cost him $1,600.00 ... but that the (honest) dealer could sell it to another customer for him, if he chose, for $2,000.00, tomorrow. Dad said that he'd take it. When we invest where the guarantee is that the number of dollars invested won't go down ... there's another guarantee: that the number won't increase, either, apart from the rent on the money. And in almost all of the more than 80 years that I've been alive ... each of those dollars would buy less when we got it back than when we gave it to the borrower. Many people spend more time planning their vacation than learning how to manage their money effectively ... ... some stupid, that, I say. And many of the governments, deep in debt, can't afford to have interest rates go up. Plus ... many of them are printing money ...which means that inflation will go up. When my jacket shrinks enough through repeated washings ... it gets darn hard to breathe! ole joyful

Sorry for the length of this: It's half-amusing, half-offensive to be accused of shilling for anyone, since Im as self-taught as one can possibly be. Dreamgarden seems to have ignored all my many posts on other threads over the years. So let me restate my (lack of) credentials to reassure you that I have no vested interest in whether anyone ever uses a planner, advisor, broker, or banker. Havent earned a penny from anyone since 2006 when I retired and the last time I met my ex-boss for lunch, I bought HIM lunch, LOL. For the record, most of my friends and all of my family are like DH & me - we don't have enough liquid assets to be of interest to most financial planners. I have free access to CFPs thru DHs retirement portfolio, but I dont need them. Why? Because I enjoy finance and investing the same way I enjoy reading history, science, and mystery novels IOW, for the sheer fun of it. I read extensively Ive had a subscription to the on-line WSJournal since it was first offered, and read it every day plus I clip articles obsessively from a variety of websites. But I would NEVER assume that others want to spend their time the same way. Old Joyful, for instance, likes to invest in individual stocks. He and I had a recent discussion thread about this. I have no interest in anything but mutual funds. Individual stocks dont fit into our tax and financial situation. I have the healthiest respect for his knowledge and acumen, but the fact remains, he lives in Canada and I live in the US. My financial planning is going to be very different than his, just as my goals are different. I know from our own experience how hard it is to sit down and do estate planning. We dont have much of an estate compared to many, yet it took us decades to learn to identify the things we needed to do, so we could finally do the things we wanted to do. Ignorance is most certainly NOT bliss, as we, and so many others, have discovered! I am a firm believer that we should be teaching some of this stuff in school. The world has changed rapidly and drastically, and us middle-class Boomers are stuck trying to figure out a world so much more dangerous than our parents grew up with. If you read my post more carefully, you would see that I wrote that even cheapie (e.g., simple) plans can at least provide a starting point. I do my own planning, using the WSJournal calculators (a subset of which are available on Schwabs website, or so Ive been told). Ive tried others on the web, but wasnt satisfied as they cant be altered to fit our own unusual circumstances. If a simple planning software can help someone, all to the good. I havent found them very helpful, but that doesnt mean I call them all garbage. WSJs toolset comes closest to allowing me to set the appropriate parameters, without having to pay someone to do a plan for us. Why should I pay, when I have the knowledge to do it myself? Its not hard, it just takes some effort and decision-making. THIS is what a planner is for: to help you (if you cant do it yourself) quantify where you are right now, and where you want to be. This is related to investing, but investing is only a very modest part of it. Its the planning process thats critical, yet not well understood. YOU must do the decision-making. No software program or customized plan means anything if you cant accept the reality of what your current circumstances are, and are willing to work at reaching your goals. I recently talked a young family member out of seeing a planner because I was able to help her identify some long-term goals. She also needed some very basic help diversifying her portfolio. In a decade or so they should probably meet with a planner to ensure theyre on track for whatever their goals are at that time. But until then I told her there was no reason to consult with anyone unless a life-changing event occurs. Its more important for her to have all legal docs in order, at this stage of life. I learned a lot from my ex-boss "G", but I have never referred anyone to him. The people I know who have enough money for financial advisors, already have them. The one time I was emailed off-line to ask for an intro, I refused to do so as the specific circumstances of that person made it inappropriate, in my view. "G" is semi-retired, but stays in the business because he loves working with people. He does a lot of pro bono work and is both well known and respected here as he's been active in professional organizations for over 30 yrs now. He trains his office staff not so much on what to do, but what NOT to do. He is ethical and very, very precise about working for the good of his clients, which is why he has many families who are second- and third-generation clients. BTW, Madoffs clients should have known something was "funny" just in the fact he had them writing out checks to his name. Thats a definite no-no the assets should always be held by a third-party institution. The woman (also a CFP) who works in "Gs" office and produces the financial plans is a former elder care specialist who got into the financial side late in life. These customized plans cost a minimum of $4K and range up to $10K. They are certainly NOT for everyone, but when appropriate, can make a huge difference in someone's life. Most people dont need them, but the ones who do, need them a great deal! I worked with some of those clients, and their lives were definitely better for having gotten a good financial plan and then executed it properly. Actually, now that I think of it I did refer someone to my ex-boss. I told my DH that if I die before he does, he's to sell the house (I maintain it and the garden in addition to all the finances; he has no interest in such things), take the insurance proceeds, and bring the money to "G" to handle. You did not have a good advisor. Thats not your fault. Its hard to evaluate credentials when youre on that steep learning curve. But a good advisor isnt looking for the next hot thing for you a good advisor helps you identify your goals and gives you a roadmap on how to get from where you are to where you want to be. A good advisor says "no" to you almost as often as s/he says "yes." Its important, but difficult, to learn how to differentiate the good from the bad. The more educated we are in this area, the better we can tell who can help us and who cannot. Id liken financial planning/investing to painting a room. You can do it the sloppy easy way. You can do a "sorta-kinda" okay paintjob, shoving the furniture out the way and covering it. Or, you can do more extensive prep work: masking the moldings, laying dropcloths, priming and using two coats. You can use cheap paint and cheap brushes. You can use top quality paint and the best brushes or rollers. Its always your choice. Each method gets the job done, to varying levels of satisfaction, cost, time expended, and durability. Saying that **ALL** CFPs are worthless is like saying all professional painters are worthless. Some are, and some arent. Some people need one all the time/every time, and some only need one on occasion. It isnt for me OR for you to make that unilateral judgment. Using a pro for anything is always an individual decision that should never be taken lightly. Nor should that decision be disparaged, once made. Often a pro does do a better job than an amateur can. Sure, a talented amateur can sometimes better a pro but they need the talent, the interest, the skill, and the time. Not everyone has those in equal measure. To expect it of every person is unrealistic and unfair. I feel fortunate to have had the generous and thoughtful assistance of others in my life. Weve had some serious setbacks that could easily have turned out badly, but in the end everything worked out (so far at least!). If I can help others avoid some of the mistakes we've made, then I feel its worth the effort. We did okay (my ROI over 25 yrs is way better than average), but perhaps we could have done better if we hadnt been so ignorant for so long. We were at times the recipients of sheer dumb luck, but thats something one shouldnt be counting on to happen. Dreamgarden, may you have better luck in the future finding people or resources able to help you.

Ole Joyful has the training and instincts to be a good advisor. Most people don't. If you have bad instincts and can be panicked by the media headlines, you are NOT going to be a good investor. You could have all the knowledge in the world, but your emotions will drive your decisions. You will probably buy high and sell low, the exact opposite of what you should do. A lot of times a good advisor has to say "no" to clients. "No, you can't plan to withdraw 10% per year, your money will run out too fast." "No, being 100% in bonds and Treasuries is not a guarantee against losing money." A good advisor positions his/her clients for the mid- to long-term, based on their risk profile. The reason for that has to do with logistics. Here's what's involved with trade decisions in the CFP office I used to work in: 1) Quarter ends (let's say it's 3/31/2011, sometimes written as 1Q11). 2) Reports from the brokerages don't come on-line to the advisor's office until 2-5 weeks after the quarter ends, or approximately 4/30/2011. 3) To generate individual reports for each client requires a massive back office op; it took 5 people (two CFPs, one analyst, three clerks) to produce reports for the 140 clients, as many had multiple accounts and a separate report is generated for each account. It took us a minimum of four weeks as this CFP liked to heavily customize his services. Some clients preferred to see a different set of benchmarks used; for example, one liked to have the Wilshire 5000 instead of the S&P 500, and another always wanted to see the Russell small cap index benchmark included. So that 4 weeks now brings us to 5/31/2011, when we are stuffing envelopes and mailing the reports out to the clients. I'm sure some have by now switched to paperless, but that doesn't subtract more than a week and maybe one person, off the process. Let's be generous and say going paperless gets you your 3/31 quarterly report by 5/15. 4) You read your report, with its recommendations for any portfolio changes, the very next day, 5/16. You're so organized, you even already have your quarterly meeting date scheduled in advance, so you're going in to talk to the CFP the very next week. This is unusual, most clients didn't schedule a meeting until they had their report in hand, so often we were scheduling July meetings to discuss that 3/31 report. Some clients would call and okay the portfolio changes, but most liked to come in and chat with the CFPs, because they were like family. Every meeting took at least 90 minutes, and some that were family accounts, were known for taking 2 to 2-1/2 hrs. 5) Once we got the client's okay, the analyst was given permission to execute whatever trades we had recommended for that client, on that 3/31 report. Still with me? We're mostly through the second quarter, sometimes even shading into the third quarter, before we get the client's okay to change the portfolio. Now, why does it take so long? Because the CFP is looking at those mid- to long-term trends, not the short-term 'next 3 months' that a commissioned broker is 100% focused on. In almost two years of working at the CFP's office, and four years of working with another independent CFP who handles MIL's portfolio, NO TRADES ever take place without client permission or outside the routine quarterly reporting system. There are no tips for "hot sectors" or "above average returns at little risk". This is why it's a whole different world, when you find an advisor who is worth working with. Because a good advisor will happily bend your ear for hours, teaching you as much as you want to know. A bad one never has enough time for you, unless he wants you to write a check!

pence~~I do think you are on to something...it is more important that he still has a good relationship with his son and his children (DH's only grandchildren) than money at his age. He has made the statement that he has been very poor and very wealthy, but his life has been a "good ride"...he has been blessed in so many ways...as well as blessed to have had two (one is me) wonderful wives~~ The reason this has gone on for years...DH was the architect and primary owner in the construction business, which son ran into the ditch..not paying the bills, not doing acceptable work (and didn't pay the errors & omissions insurance nor the workman's comp)...so those errors and injuries had to be paid out of good old dad's pocket! For all of the years we have been married, there has never been a construction job that son has done that hasn't ended up in a conflict or lawsuit of some type...so that has been our life. I am hoping the one that is looming will be the last because the business is closed and they are doing no more work. Lousianapurchase~~ Wonderful words and thoughts...and I loved the last quote "What goes around, comes around"...and I am hoping this comes true in son's case! Lascatx~~your words and thoughts are priceless....and I do live in KS. Lavender~~THANKS for your kind words...they are appreciated DH does have an attorney (heaven only knows how large that bill might be through all of this mess). I have consulted an attorney several times and feel confident with his advice. We started to counseling and our counselor died suddenly....didn't seem to do much good and he was convienced it was a waste of time and money....I also went alone...and maybe I'll find another one. Thanks for your support....right now, I think I will ride out the next lawsuit....hope for a quick house sale...and hope that we can get out lives back together when we can get of this town away from his son.... He now says he doesn't want me to leave...he loves me....and I love him too, but lots of times, I don't like him very well.