When my DD tried shopping in the Jr. department she'd ask me why everything looked so cheap and all-alike. She realized that most of the Jr. clothing was meant to satisfy whatever happened to be the current season trend. She didn't want to look like everyone else. She even referred to the Jr dept as 'slutwear' because nearly everything was tight, skimpy and cheap-looking but unfortunately not cheap in price.

It made shopping very difficult. She ended up looking in the petite sections to find more classic clothes. But of course she didn't want to look like her Mom!

In an article I recently read on fashion at least it said that expensive jeans are out, people are now looking for more realistic priced jeans...I wish you luck in your shopping.

You might want to check out Macy's INC(International Concepts)brand~~regular or petites. The fashions are young, but not too junior-ish. If it's a Macy's that stocks a large variety of this brand, there will be lots of things on sale, the only way i'll buy. ;o)

Here is a link that might be useful: INC

Yes . . .my sweet DD turns seventeen in 11 days (eeeeek!!). Many of the jeans have multiple holes, cost a small fortune and look like something a hooker would wear! The shorts are way too short and skin tight. I hate shopping these days!

Thanks, MC, PC, and lynne! Yup, sure not as much fun these days as I'd like. Aside from some slut factor, I just am not loving the "look", for the most part. Yes, there are lots of pretty tops, but even preteen complains of needing the extra layer of a tank under when it's hot. Almost all of the tees are this thin, too. Is it strictly style, or is this very thin cotton cheaper for the manufacturer?
And The Look that's going on in many of the windows! Talk about NOT matchy-matchy. It all looks just a cheap a mess. Gotta dig to find an outfit. Neither of us fell in love, and I'm fondly looking back to the time when only money got in the way.

Thin cotton tees are not just in the junior departments. DD and I were at Eddie Bauer and we found the cutest T's, one was in the most gorgeous color of coral that really flattered DD, but the fabric was so thin! All the T's they had in the store were flimsy.

At another store I found some cute embellished T's and the same thing, you could see my bra thru them, and I just can't wear that for work. Oh, and the price DID NOT reflect the chintzier fabric!

There is a *huge* market share awaiting the manufacturer who is willing to risk losing the lowest common denominator shopper and go for better quality/slightly less sl*tty cut.

On a larger front, I hate what the current age has done to feminism. Completely undercut it and reduced it to sexual 'freedom'. It's like a disrespectful dare to young women -- if you really are equal, prove it by having sex right now with someone you don't care about. That's the only 'freedom' that too many men (not all, but obviously many) seem willing to support. We're 'free' to be advertising for sex right out in the open now, and it's rewarded. Anything else is considered 'prudish' and retrograde.

Anyway, back on topic: we generally find decent-looking (and I don't mean prudish, just not desperate-looking) and decently constructed clothes at the GW now...DD is also liking vintage more and more.

Since I like wearing tee shirts, I usually wear a camisole under the rather thin tees, or a tank top. If there's a built-in-bra, that's one less layer.

Like many of you, I *hate* todays fashions, and many of them are 'dictated' by men and I think it's because they're aware that a lot of younger women will do almost anything to look sexy.

I've always thought sex appeal was a certain something that came from within, but I guess it can be bought off a rack these days. ;o)

8-10 yrs ago, my sister was saying the same thing about trying to buy clothes for her daughters.

Lands End and the sale rack at Talbot's became her friend. And once my nieces learned about 'designer brands', the tags were cut out because Lands End and Talbot's are not socially acceptable designers for many teens.

Thin tshirt material means more profit to the retailed/manufacturer because it's cheaper to make and it will wear out/tear faster...thus needing replacement.

lester, agreed on the economics of thin material.

Flyleft-"...reduced it to sexual 'freedom'. It's like a disrespectful dare to young women -- if you really are equal, prove it by having sex right now(!)"

Yes, the current zeitgeist of our times is eerily similar to what existed under past cultural norms. History seems doomed to repeat.

(Leacate, hope you don't mind the detour!)

Also I wish someone would spill the beans and share that this brand of uber casual "sexuality" is simply not rewarding or gratifying. Not even for boys in the long run (when a pregnancy or STD occur, for example) and certainly not for girls, period.

This focus on being "hot" seems like a way to keep girls obsessed with pleasing and attracting boys and distracting them from fully becoming the persons they are meant to be.

Yes, it's wonderful to be young and beautiful and it's fun to get dressed up and wear makeup, but it's damaging to girls when the whole point of the exercise is to "get a boy."

I think that dressing nicely and grooming should be about expressing and celebrating one's uniqueness, practicing self-care, and simply enjoying the fun and beauty of color and design.

Hey stinky,
Isn't this 'conversstion' side meant for exactly that: conversations that may meander onto many paths, as IRL? I want to reply to your post, but will have to wait as gotta go. Love that it's taken a ground higher that mere fashion.Back to that for a sec, though, I did see a better selection at Loehmann's yesterday. More( I hope) on fashion and sexual mores later.

Stinky, you said the magic word, HOT~~thanks to lil miss Paris, that dang word now has new meaning in the dictionary! And thing is, *anyone* can be hot~~is it over-confidence? The reason I say this is because I was in a restroom and there were two 'rather large' girls building each other up as to how 'hot' the other was. I know size *doesn't* matter, but I wonder if some of these girls look into a mirror before leaving the house, or even when they bought those too tight jeans or too short top, which leaves their sometimes large muffin top hanging out. Maybe i'm missing something. ;o)

Thanks, Leacate...very sweet of you.

Patty, you made me LOL! Your ladies room story is a hoot! Made me think of Natalie Wood in Westside Story singing "I Feel Pretty!" Singing joyfully, she asks, "Who's that pretty girl in the mirror there?"

Wouldn't have had the same charm if she'd been singing, "Who's that little hottie in the mirror there?"

THANK G*D our DD was never into that "hooker-style" fashion!!

She's always been a conservative dresser, and is mainly a "Jeans" girl...whew!! She's tall/slim, long legs, and could wear anything like that...but....I LUCKED-OUT!!!

Her taste in shoes however....Uffda$$$$!

Faron

"I LUCKED-OUT!!! Yes, faron, you can credit some of her good taste to her unique style sense, but you can be sure her mom deserves much of the credit. Children taught by smart, intelligent parents generally are apples that fall fairly near the tree. I think many moms cave in fearing the loss of their daughters popularity. Caving in also is easier...at that moment.
"Yes, it's wonderful to be young and beautiful and it's fun to get dressed up and wear makeup, but it's damaging to girls when the whole point of the exercise is to "get a boy." stinky, I know there are boy-crazed girls who think this way, but in my day(waaaaay- groan- back), my daughter's teen years and now with my middle school gd, it seems not to have changed: dressing is far more to impress their girlfriends.
So, back at Nordstrom's, etc., I see these very short, very tight knit skirts . They cup the derriere like latex active pants. Very "in". On gd, ( who would wear cotton bike shorts under) with her slim figure and long coltish legs, it's kinda cute and kind of appalling. We're undecided, but she is eying them. Can only imagine how it would look on a full figured girl with 'back". :>O
We can do it...keep her in style without the tart factor. Only thing is, it's getting a whole lot harder.

Congratulations Leah!

Yes, I hear what you're saying about girls impressing girls. That's what's coming from their heart. But, the clothing designers, media, and entertainment biz (well much of the above) seem to promote sexy looks and to encourage girls to make that a priority. Leaves a mom not being able to find a pair of shorts that would ahdere to the dress code.

Images in magazines and TV and the clothing on the racks, send messages about how girls are supposed to want to look. These industries are taking advantage of young, impressionable minds; minds that don't yet understand the full implications of looking a certain way!

To illustrate further, I wasn't laughing *at* the girls in the bathroom in Patty's story. But, I do find the culture that put those ideas in their heads so sad that I have to laugh or else I'd cry.

"Hot" has probably just become the new vernacular for "pretty." It's worth noting how language, clothes, and entertainment so often have sexual overtones.

I imagine that what often happens is that girls without parental involvement/concern wear the tarty clothes, don't understand necessarily how they're coming across, but are getting attention (from the opposite sex) which feels nice, even empowering, so they keep going in that direction. Attention, even if it's the "wrong" kind, can be addictive, especially if you're not receiving love and care at home.

As you said to Faron, parental involvement and guidance is key. Your daughter is so fortunate to have a mom who goes the extra mile (literally) to make sure that she looks nice, and explains to her "why" the itsy bitsy shorts aren't appropriate.

My heart goes out to young people who are left to just pick up cues from their environment (and what an environment it is!) when they need an older, wiser person to help them sort out what they really believe, value and aspire to.

It is so hard being a girl these days. Fashion, society, etc makes it so hard for a girl to be herself. This has always been a factor but I think today it is so much worse than say 10yrs ago when my neice was 18.

My dd's biggest issue is her mature figure. So shopping in the girls dept when she was in 6th grade was impossible. Bras only go to a certain size, pants are made for underdeveloped hips, shirts not cut for full busts. It is horrible. So you go to the Jrs and it is all hoochy. Try to find a pr of shorts that are not daisy duke. Even the girls dept is daisy! Unless she wore capris or school uniforms there were no choices. We battled daily trying to find appropriate things for her figure. I am even embarassed to try on some of the Jrs stuff and I have the figure for the dept.

I too had a fitting room incident with some rather larger figured teens. They were trying on prom dresses. My dd was looking for a modest dress for a reception and another mom had her dd looking for a modest prom dress. Then we had the two girls on their own. They put on these tube type dresses. Way too short and too much boob overflow. They talked about how HOT they looked. What was so sad was that they looked horrible, hoochy. They would have both looked beautiful if someone helped them pick out dresses that actually looked nice on them. But society and school pressure has these girls going for the hoochiest look possible. It was really hard for me and the other mom to smile and shake our heads yes to them, then look at our own daughters and talk about their dresses on them.

My dd looks really cute in skinny jeans and we have come to agreement about how she is to wear clothes. My older sis thinks I should say no and not let her wear them. You really have to pick your battles these days. I have found my dd loves Aeropostale. They have the cutest Ts and they are not low cut at all. I will buy her whatever she wants at that store because we don't have to argue about layering to cover her clevage like we do with all the Ts sold at other places that are v-necked. I dread summer because the options are all camis and tanks. Even layered the clevage is always there. I must say I have gotten much stronger at saying No when it is in her best interest. I may have to deal with her attitude for a moment but I am learning to be more firm. Our leaving the stores emptyhanded is teaching her to compromise more.

Unfortunately we cannot keep our girls looking like 4th graders forever. Some parents are lucky, but most of us struggle keeping our girls looking their age. Society, fashion, etc makes it hard but the battle is worth it.

My DD also just plain can't *fit* into the skinny jeans, because she's got *gasp* leg muscles from running! Maybe like faron's DD the skater -- I remember my thighs when I was skating - there are just some things that only extremely thin (unmuscled) girls can wear. We joke that those skinny jeans are made for girls who just stand there and be looked at, rather than girls who are out doing things themselves. Which leads us onto the "what is sex appeal" thread, which I actually shared with my DD yesterday. She loved it : )

Fly- so true about the muscle thing. I am preparing my dd for her legs and even butt to be stronger (larger)when she gets back into softball and our new gym membership starts paying off. She gets bummed when she has to pick a larger size but on the flip she loves having muscular arms and legs.

This morning she comes down for breakfast with sweats on which is fine. But they were really low. I very kindly told her to compromise, we don't enjoy seeing her hip bones and don't want to have to turn away when she bends over in fear we might get mooned. She was a little miffy about it and retreated to her room. A while later she reappeared with same sweats but a long, baggy shirt. Both dad and I praised her for compromising.

Now don't take this the wrong way, but for those of you complaining about the cheap, too-sexy clothes: wasn't there just a thread about what is sex appeal with some seeming to really like being told they are sexy? Maybe the kids are picking it up from the moms as well as the media, but they are so young they equate it with their clothes...just thinking... :)

Cyn, I'm not one who was saying that. No hypocrisy here. I think you might be drawing some false equivalences...

I very rarely come here.....but I am wandering the net trying to get over a shock!!
A Face Book friend posted about another friend's 25th highschool reunion photo. The men and women in those pictures looked dressed for taking out the garbage. Tight jeans, holes artfully and artificially worn, muffin tops hanging over on some, tshirts with assorted beer logos and on the men ratty flannel shirts, ball caps, Old Milwaukee shirts etc.
I'd say that some kids may be reacting to parents who don't seem to have any pride in their appearance.
These people were going to mingle with people who perhaps they had not seen in years.....but I am sure that the skinny blond with the lemonade hair and the skinny and low sequined top over her tight and torn jeans thinks she looks really "hot"...

linda, there are all kinds of peeps out in the world, those with class and some, well, not so much. I seriously doubt kids are choosing their dress to off-set their parents lack of taste.
My neighbor recently went to her 20th high school reunion. She wore a beautiful cocktail dress, and DH wore dark sport coat, as did most who attended.

Last year my then 13 yo niece wore the sweetest outfit for DD's wedding. She was very 'innocent' looking and very age appropriate. My sister, well, she's still struggling to hang on to her youth and tends to dress pretty hoochie. When she left her husband, my niece broke out of her shell (perhaps because mom was REALLY acting up??) and now SHE is wearing hooched out teen clothes and overdoing the make up. She went from Taylor Swift to Britney Spears over night it seemed.

My sister encourages it, by telling her girls how 'hot' they look. My girls were always dressed like boys, primarily to hide their figures...guess they took off after mom, who is somewhat of a tomboy !