Daisy - I understand you're concern and that shows what a wonderul and caring teacher you are. I think there are teachers out there that wish parents would put their kids on meds, so they would be easier to deal with in the classroom. As the mother of a child that was on ADD meds (he's 22 now and no longer on them), it's not something that I think any parent really wants to do. It was only out of desperation that I did. I'm thinking this little girl may not be as severe as my son was, since you felt like you were seeing some success with her, but sometimes kids hold it in while they're at school and then all hell breaks loose when they get home. Their self-esteem can also suffer greatly, because they don't understand ADD...they just think they're stupid. My son is still suffering the effects of that. His ADD was so severe that he ended up in a special ed class, because he just could not focus and as a result, he missed out on learning things that most kids learn. I think every parent has to weigh the pro and cons. Self-esteem can suffer whether they're on meds or off of meds. As a mother that's been through this, I appreciate great teachers like you. Just try not to be too hard on the parents. They only want what's best for the child.

Ritalin has been a big help for my son. Instead of having failure after failure, he's had some successes now. These successes have done wonders for his self-esteem. Instead of expecting failure, now he thinks he has a fighting chance. He says without the Ritalin, the harder he tries to organize himself, the more difficult it is. He just can't get it all together. With Ritalin, he says his brain works.

My son doesn't like being on Ritalin, frankly, so only takes a small dose when he has to get through several hours requiring extra concentration: difficult classes, tough homework assignments, job situations where he needs to be on task & accurate. Other days, he happily does without it. The difference in his quality of life with Ritalin vs. without it, though, is remarkable.

So I get little upset when those who haven't experienced these situations & don't fully realize the relief these drugs can bring to the sufferers start railing against meds. The side effects aren't a given, not everybody has them. But to think one can overcome a difficult neurological impairment merely with diet, or exercise, or positive reinforcement, or CBT, or good habits, or whatever is naive.

I am so thrilled to hear from the two of you. Everything I read on the net talked about horrible teachers insisting kids go on drugs so they wouldn't disrupt the class. That teachers wouldn't let kids be kids and that ADD was just kids being normal and active like kids should be. It is reassuring to hear from parents who know it is not "normal" kid behaviour.

Like both of you have said, the worst part is seeing her suffer. She knows others view her negatively. I know she wants desperately to do what's right, but just can't stop herself from acting out and it makes her feel so bad.

I probably shouldn't have searched the drug on the net. I'm savvy enough to know that you get the most scary and anecdotal scenarios. I do hope that the drug helps her (and they are starting her on the smallest possible dosage), but those reviewers with extreme views calling it "crack for kids", etc. and talk of kids dropping dead, make it so hard to balance the good. I'm just glad, I didn't have to make those choices for my own kids.

Thank you for sharing your experiences. You really made me feel better about this situation.

Keep in mind too that there are varying types & degrees of ADHD. My son isn't hyperactive, is polite & mild, has great social skills, and sailed through elementary school with excellent grades. You may have kids in your class with ADD and would never suspect it.

It wasn't until my son reached middle school when the organizational demands began to overwhelm him. High school academics were of course very difficult. He has a high IQ, but little ability to stay on task for long, is forgetful & disorganized. We tried all the right things for several years to help him, but we couldn't get them to take. In his junior year, a teacher who takes meds for his LDs suggested that we get him tested. The only time it occurred to anyone that our son might have a cognitive problem, it occurred to someone who had ADD himself.

And I apologize if I came off a little strong. You wouldn't believe the lectures I've been given after saying our son has ADD: 1) it's a BS diagnosis, 2) stop feeding him so much sugar, 3) get him on a natural diet, 4) it's due to video games, 5) why are you drugging him, 6) he needs to spend more time with nature, 7) you need to teach him hyperorganization (my favorite! I can just imagine what he'd do with all those color-coded folders, pens, notebooks & calendars!). I confess to having become impatient.

daisychain01 - msrose & awm03 speak volumes about this issue in their posts and I hope you can see that it is not an easy decision for a parent to make. Medication is not a 'fix-all' solution, but neither burying your head about ADHD. And I don't say that lightly because I've been there, lived that and my son is STILL suffering as a result of my insistence that no child of mine would be medicated.

I'll try and do the short version of our story. My youngest struggled with what I now know are classic ADHD issues almost from birth. All I knew is that he was so much more work than our older son. His school performance and behavior ranged from stellar to wildly inappropriate. He developed a tic in 2nd grade and our pediatrician suggested a pediatric neurologist. At that exam I learned there is a strong overly (van diagram) between tics, some learning disabilities and ADHD and was asked about his school performance. He was managing ok but certainly had issues even at that early stage of the game. This doctor said that as his work load progressed he would have more trouble and would need to be medicated, certainly by 4th or 5th grade. I was appalled at his offhand remark as if it were no big deal and that I 'could call in the future for a prescription without needing another exam'. No way would I ever allow a doctor to prescribe medication for my son based on a cursory exam 2 or 3 years prior! All through school his pattern continued, DH and I would dread teacher conferences because we'd always see and hear the same things - even though we'd ask, no one ever suggested testing because if the recommendation comes from the school, they are responsible to implement it so teachers are never to bring it up. What we took away from those meetings was that our son was choosing his performance and behavior. Since he had the ability to do very well some of the time in some subjects, he could do it all the time - if he wanted and if we didn't allow him to 'slack'. Sparing you the details of all we went through during his public school years I can simply say it was significant.

Fast forward to January of 11th grade when he came to us in tears saying "There's something wrong with my brain. It doesn't work like everyone else's." I pulled my head out of the sand. He was tested, many issues came into focus but by then there were other factors that made traditional medication treatment more difficult. And to be given a 'label' that late in the game when all his life he'd been told he could do the work if he really wanted to, was a double edged sword. From that point forward things have been anything but smooth, but when he struggles, at least we have a better understanding of why. And his successes are far more appreciated because we know what he has to work around to get there. He's 22, a senior in college, and I know he will find his way in this world even though it will never be easy for him. As for me, there is hardly a day that goes by that I don't regret my blindness, my stubborn insistence that MY child isn't like those other kids that need medication. What a judgmental b*tch I was. I believe in my heart that my son suffered when I could have spared him years of self doubt and embarrassment because it was all wrapped up in what I thought people would think of ME.

It was never about me at all. And it isn't about the parents of this student of yours. And it isn't about you. It's about her. You obviously have her best interest at heart or you wouldn't be concerned about this and I admire you for that. As a parent, I would have loved for a teacher to show that much concern for my son, especially if that concern was shared with me. Ultimately it is their decision, as you said, but I would think they would be open to speaking with you about your assessment that she is improving and perhaps they may want to discuss that with her doctor. One of the most interesting things I learned about treatment is that it does not have too be all or nothing - meaning not every patient needs medication daily. Many kids are med free on weekends and as they get older, some are able to assess schedules and work loads in advance and only take meds on days where they would not be able to keep up un-medicated. Your heart is in the right place.

Well, so much for the short version :-/

omgosh, dlm, you wrote so powerfully. Thank you for expressing the issues so well.

My heart is aching for you and your son after reading your background tale. I hope he and you are happier now.

Please don't call yourself a judgmental b*tch. Actually, I think your judgment of things is rather good, having enjoyed many of your posts over the years. It's the b*tch part I strongly disagree with!

I'm another parent for is thankful for Ritalin and Concerta - but my tale is slightly different.

My child never had trouble in school. We were in an excellent public school, he was bright, motivated, got great reports from his teachers had many friends, was active in sports, wonderful personality. Our first inkling was when he took the SAT exam as a high school sophomore and came home and said he had no idea if he even finished the test. He said that kept finding himself looking out the window. However his scores were fine.

Then he went to college and every now and then called to tell us that he was having trouble keeping up with his reading. We thought he was just enjoying himself too much and not studying enough so we gave it time. His first grades weren't great but second semester he did better and managed to improve his grades each semester until he graduated with a 3.5. However he still complained that he took him forever to finish a book.

Fast forward to law school where he found himself in serious academic trouble within 2 months. You can imagine the amount of reading that's required of a first year law student. He loved law school but he was desperate and finally went to his adviser who suggested all kinds of study tips- however he had already tried most of them over the years. Then his adviser sent him to the college counseling and psychiatric services. After the initial interview they sent him to a specialty center where he was tested. They also sent us a 20 page questionnaire to fill out about his behavior and habits.

The results floored all of us. The psychiatrist told him that he had severe ADD and said he wondered how he managed to graduate high school let alone college. He had both visual and auditory ADD. They prescribed medication and it honestly took a few months to get the right meds and the right dosage but what a difference it made. He finished law and has been practicing successfully now for several years. Turns out my son is 'exceptionally' bright and I guess that's how he managed to learn enough to get by before diagnosis.

Now perhaps this was adult onset of ADD but there were indications earlier that he may have been suffering with this. While he was wonderful at school at home he was a handful. I feel so guilty that neither my DH nor I suspected anything. We just thought he was our 'difficult' child.

What's interesting is that there has been a nationwide shortage of Ritalin and other similar medicines. My son was without his for 2 weeks and he complained that he could see his work suffer. Now that he's finally been able to fulfill his prescriptions things are returning to normal.

He detests the fact that he'll probably be on medicine forever but he finally realized that it's like being a diabetic on insulin. He realizes that his brain is just wired differently.

Daisy - I forgot to add that it's commendable that you are concerned about your student. However you should not be upset that this student is on medication. It may make all the difference in her success.

i know that if i pursued it, i could be diagnosed with add... i know what i have struggled with as an adult-i have less memory as a child, except that as i got older (HS) school work certainly wasn't a priority of mine. still, i made it thru college and grad school...

i know that 2 of my 3 kids have add...one struggled much more with it than the other. i feel like the school environment and college search is much more competitive now than it used to be which makes it harder for today's kids.
neither of my 2 took any meds until 2nd/3rd year of HS, mainly because of my resistance to having them medicated... but, in retrospect, i think maybe starting much earlier would have helped them establish study patterns, etc at a much younger age... medication is not the sole answer, that's for sure! part of our problem was having a parent with focus and organizational issues parenting kids with focus/impulse/organizational issues!!
i really wish there was a different school 'answer' for kids who learn differently rather than medicating them so they can more easily conform...
neither child liked how they felt taking it, so compliance was spotty. my youngest has said that he feels like he can't think as creatively/quickly/wittily with the med. (that makes sense since it does help with impulsivity...) he elects to take very little and his grades have definitely been negatively affected...
but, they're smart kids and i do think they will find their way. i think they will both need to have mentally stimulating jobs someday, because i know neither will be able to tolerate the mundane and will probably need organized assistants/partners, etc depending on what they do...

Busybee- that's funny that you mentioned your kids will need an organized assistant. We have always said that our son needs someone tethered to him to keep track of his car keys, phone, backpack, homework etc.

Wow, I am so grateful for the honest opinions expressed.

dlm, I especially appreciate your comment that it is not about me. I am feeling horribly guilty because I filled out all the forms for the doctors (honestly) and while I know the parents also gave him the same info, I somehow feel like I've failed her. But it's not about me, it's about her and making sure she is as successful as she can be. I've worked really closely with the parents and really admire them. They do not have their heads in the sand and are doing everything possible to help her. I know they appreciate my efforts as well since she has not had sympathetic teachers in the past.

I think one of my main concerns was that she go on the drugs now when she has had a really wonderful stretch of success. I guess part of me was worried that if she did it with drugs, she would never learn to do it on her own. But I'm seeing that that shouldn't be a concern. What I'm hearing is that she may be able to go on and off the drugs as she matures. And may just use them for certain situations.

When my oldest DD was young she was hospitalized for a very painful disease called HSP. I was horrified when she was put on a morphine drip. One of the nurses explained to me that pain meds worked best when they were started at the first sign of pain, rather than waiting. And in the long run, she would need less medication if we gave it to her early rather than waiting. It was really eye-opening for me because I hated giving my kids drugs unless they really needed them. I see a correlation in my thinking from that experience to this.

This has been incredibly helpful. Especially to hear the success stories rather than the doom and gloom I had read online.

"I guess part of me was worried that if she did it with drugs, she would never learn to do it on her own."

You know, I've come to believe the opposite: that they CAN learn it when on the drugs. Ritalin was an eye opener for my son, in a way -- "ohhh! Accordion files for class handouts, big calendars to write on...so THIS is how that organization stuff works." A lightbulb went on. Never mind that we'd tried to instill these habits before.

Many years ago, a friend of mine told me her 3rd grade daughter brought home a successful quiz score after starting on ADHD meds. She asked her daughter what was different about taking the test, and the daughter replied, "For the first time the kids weren't shuffling their feet or rustling their papers." IOW, she'd never been able to tune that out before. Years later, when my own son went from an F to a B in physics, I asked the same question. He said, "You know, Mom, it just started to make sense." But I asked his teacher, and he said my son wasn't daydreaming & staring out the window anymore.

Another teacher here....

I have a little girl in class right now who has just NOT been herself for a few weeks. Not paying attention, constantly off task, daydreaming. Her other teacher and I emailed her mom -and it turned out they are changing insurance companies and she is off her meds until the end of this month. Generally we know which kids are identified as ADD/ADHD, but in this case we didn't even know she had ADD -but it was very obvious when she didn't have the medication.

Last point... a few years ago, I wanted to know for myself what my students were experiencing on medication. So I took my friend's son's Ritalin pill -and WOW. I then had a phone call with my sister, and it probably one of the very, very few phonecalls I've ever had in which I was completely focused on the call. Not folding laundry, or picking up, etc. I really *heard* her in a way I wasn't used to.

I'm so glad to read all these wonderful responses! And mine would be just another voice in the chorus... My older son has ADHD, and medication helped him enormously. While medicated, he was able to learn the strategies that helped him succeed. Unmedicated, the strategies didn't make sense, so he couldn't even learn them, much less use them.

As a caring and sympathetic teacher, you can be a tremendous help to this girl and her family to help them fine-tune her medication and find behavior and learning strategies that work. If you can get into the habit of emailing the parents regularly with good news and bad -- whatever you observe -- it will really, really help.

Bless you for caring --

daisychain while it's great that anything I wrote resonated with you, do not feel guilty! You haven't "failed" her in any way - quite the opposite. You can't 'teach' her out of her ADD any more than you could will your daughter to not need pain management. An honest assessment to her doctor, continued involvement with her parents and being an engaged teacher with a positive attitude (and it seems you really are) shows you are doing all the right things. Keep up the good work. You may well be "the teacher" this girl remembers as the special one - you know, the one we all have, the teacher who made a difference.

Also to your credit, daisychain, is that you're not complaining about the paperwork & being cynical. When I worked at the high school, it broke my heart to hear teachers griping about students being diagnosed with LDs. More paper work for them, and they were sure it was just another pushy parent trying to get an academic advantage for the child (extra time on SATs, primarily). Many of them thought it was all b.s.

DH has ADD, diagnosed when he was 8yo. In high school he was on Ritalin but that didn't work for him at all, he was just in a daze, and his teachers thought he was on other (illegal) drugs.

Now he's on Adderall and it works much better, especially since they now have extended release. I could tell a difference when it's tapering off. He recently had his dose adjusted and he said he feels much better with the new dose.

So just like a lot of other medication, there isn't one med for everyone. You need to find one that works for you, and with the right dose as well.

I also have to remember his brain is wired differently and we don't solve problems the same way. There is no right or wrong way, but sometimes it's difficult for me to keep that in mind...

Daisy, another teacher here and special ed as well-let go of the idea that she won't "learn it on her own." She needs to be available to learn and the medication will make that possible.

awm, as a special ed teacher who works with students with learning disabilities, emotional disabilities, or autism, I also complain about the paperwork. That does not mean I wouldn't and don't go to the mat for my kids every day. I would guess the same is true of those teachers you overheard. If you are a teacher, though, you know that. If not, chances are you aren't seeing the whole picture. My paperwork has increased exponentially in the last few years and if I were new to this job, I would probably leave the profession as are many young, excellent teachers I know, but that is a different discussion.

I also have a son with ADD and suspect I have it as well. It is a daily struggle. I am glad your student is getting the support she needs to succeed and feel good about herself. Happy to hear the other success stories as well.

I am not a teacher. I was an instructional para in a high school. Many of the special ed instructors told me the paperwork took the joy out of their jobs, and they too pondered leaving the profession. But they didn't express this complaint with bitterness, and their concern for struggling students of all levels was touching.

The teachers I heard complaining in various venues were not special ed teachers. The tone of voice was bitter, there was much eye-rolling, and there was the suspicion of parents manipulating the system. For them to make the paperwork complaint foremost in the face of the problems the students were having (and will have for the rest of their lives) seemed wrong to me. And doubting that these students truly had learning disabilities and griping about them was unprofessional. I was sorry to find out some teachers have antipathy for students with less than obvious cognitive problems. I assumed this attitude wasn't confined to our school. Hope I'm wrong.

Sorry to hear that, awm. I have only known two sets of parents in my 21 years who actually were manipulating the system and one who was just so angry at her situation that she made my life miserable (over 25 hours of meetings for the IEP one year). I also think that there are some general ed teachers who really don't understand disabilities. They should know better than to discuss the children in a public arena. Everything about sped kids is confidential, so they could get themselves in big trouble if reported. When dealing with human beings, nothing is easy or clear-cut.

"The teachers I heard complaining in various venues were not special ed teachers. The tone of voice was bitter, there was much eye-rolling, and there was the suspicion of parents manipulating the system."

I saw a lot of that when I sought help for my older son, who was gifted in addition to struggling with dyslexia and ADHD. There was a widespread perception that I just wanted special treatment for him, when all I really wanted was for the school to help him learn to read! (Why was I the only one who thought having a GT kid in the lowest reading group signaled a possible LD?) Meh. They wouldn't do a thing for him... Never did.

I also see some evidence of bitterness / resentment in the regular ed. teachers when they are forced to include my younger son, who has clear disabilities and some degree of cognitive impairment. But I have to see their side of it -- they've got 30 kids to teach and mine takes a lot of extra effort for a smaller reward... Most of his classes are 'co-teach', meaning there are two teachers, one of whom is a dedicated Special Ed. teacher who modifies the content for the Sp. Ed. kids. But where it's a one-teacher class, my kid suffers, and the teacher does too.

No easy answers to that one, though...

We ran into the "But He's Gifted!" obstacle too. Ignorant counselors. IQ helps very little when one's executive functioning score is in the tank. Why the counselors couldn't figure this out from all their collective experience amazes me. Think of all the bright but dysfunctional students left to flounder over the years. How sad.

Like your school, sweeby, our school did nothing for our son officially. Working in the school, I was able to speak to his teachers privately to come up with extra help. That's kind of sad too, that I was only able to procure help because I had an "in" with the staff.

Wow. I am horrified. That would never happen in my district-seriously unacceptable. Glad I work where I do. What you describe sounds like something from the 70s.

Would you keep a diabetic off insulin? ADD and ADHD are brain chemical inbalences. Medication corrects that balance. I have been on Ritalin and Adderall most of my adult life--my dad self-medicated with a couple of packs of unfiltered cigarettes a day.

Under proper medical supervision, preferably a neurologist, these medications are no more harmful than any other prescribed drug.

And this:

"I guess part of me was worried that if she did it with drugs, she would never learn to do it on her own."

is so colossally ignorant that I am practically shaking as I type. SHE IS DOING IT ON HER OWN. Would you take away a prosthetic limb, so a kid could learn to hop "on his own"?

How about taking away eyeglasses? Maybe hearing aids?

One more comment: just because your student is doing pretty well now does not mean she will always be ok without medication. My son had a rough start to preschool but by the end of the year was doing quite well. He had a great preschool teacher who "got" him. K started out rough again and got worse. Much, much worse. That's when he was diagnosed with ADHD.

So yes, the work you have done with her is fabulous, but unfortunately she won't have that every school year.

I send my sincerest appreciation to all the teachers out there, especially the ones who deal with special needs. :)

ideefixe- i think there is a huge difference between insulin, glasses, hearing aids, etc and controlled substances!
any parent should evaluate very carefully whether they should give their child controlled substances, imo! some parents do not...
many doctors are way too quick to write prescriptions for LOTS of different meds--lots of parents with kids diagnosed with ADD do not see a neurologist for neuro-psych testing and followup. lots of pediatricians and family docs are prescribing these meds...
medication alone rarely is enough to have a child be successful in school--other tools should be learned... and often are not.

any parent who chooses to medicate their children with these meds(me included!) should be aware that these meds are very much abused! lots of prescription drugs are highly abused-- and many, many kids sell/give their ritalin, adderall, etc,etc to other kids.

there are lots of things to consider before medicating for add that you would not need to consider before treating type I diabetes, nearsightedness, etc!

ideefixe, while I understand your anger and do note your mention of the neurologist, as bb3 noted above, there is very often no neurologist involved. The drugs are often prescribed solely on a teacher's and parent's description of behaviours.

I have another little guy in my class who also displayed classic ADD symptoms at the beginning of the year as well as seeming to have some major learning issues. Through many discussions with parents and the resource team, I came up with a behaviour modification plan for him. By the winter holidays he had done a complete turn around and with his behaviour under control, his learning has taken off and he is an incredibly happy kid. You would not know this kid ever had issues. If we hadn't put in the effort with this kid, he could have been prescribed drugs (with very serious possible side-effects).

That is why I really wanted to make sure this other girl really can't "do it on her own." These drugs are not like prescription glasses. They can cause permanent heart damage and harm growth and development in children (just to mention a few of the side-effects).

Grace under pressure is a necessary skill for a teacher's toolbox. A room full of kids with the *schpilkas* can be a daily test, but parents can test a teacher in different, more difficult ways. Great toolbox, daisychain.

ideefixe I'm hoping you re-read the whole thread and try to 'hear' the tone, not just the words chosen. In reading your post over, it still sounds unnecessarily harsh to me. We are all at different points on the learning curve about ADD or any other issues, conditions, diseases..... the important thing is the willingness to learn and that's why daisychain started this thread.

I read the thread, I hear the tone, and I stand by what I wrote. ADD/ADHD is brain chemistry. As is epilepsy--perhaps epileptics can learn to control those pesky seizures "on their own". I trust a board-certified neurologist more than a teacher, a school counselor or a psychologist.

Harsh is in the ear of the beholder.

I also take thryoid meds--can I learn to control my metabolism on my own, so I don't need the drug?