Nicole, Had you considered making your screen porch a sunroom with screens in windows. The roof is already there, Your siding only happens on outside wall then. The other thing that happens is your basement walls shift over to being common with garage cutting out some corners and making the basement larger for some extra storage and probably about the same costs. Not sure why gables are more. I usually found them to be cheaper than hips. Roofing and framing are a wash for extra bit of siding. But thats been my experience. Not sure how that fits your needs but given how tight your space is becoming, although very efficiently laid out it may work better for you. Good Luck

Thanks, bigkahuna. The house will be brick. Hardiplank came in at over $8 per ft plus painting costs and brick at $4.50, so eliminating siding, I think, will be a net cost savings.

For our weather here, a shady screened porch is more useful than a sunroom... and windows are expensive. From what I gather, the GC had planned on it being part of the garage/utility room slab anyway, but that's something I can ask about. It's a side sloping lot, so NOT digging into the rocky mountainside any more than I have to is key.

I tried to eliminate one of those step corners and extend the slab into the one corner, but I just couldn't get it to work out downstairs. It's still something I wouldn't mind tinkering with.

Ok The excavating might be an issue but I was just suggesting that the savings on putting brick /siding on the inside of the screen porch if there was some along with saving a few corners( $700+/- each here) in foundation might offset the cost of windows that have screens. Also the screen has to be trimmed out and painted usually. The slab seems to be in the cost anyway so its a slight upcharge for the lumber. The big bonus is the extra room in basement. However I know soil conditions, contactors and costs vary region to region and job to job. Unfortunately we have to weigh the pros and cons as well as personal choices on things such as screen porch vs sunroom. Again good luck

Is there a step down from the kitchen to the "dining" room? If so I would eliminate that, too dangerous. It will also make the dining area too narrow.

The shower off bedroom 1 is less than 40" deep. That is quite narrow. You could save additional money by eliminating either the tub or the shower.

Is that square thing in the utility room a freezer? If so, I would move it to the garage. Built-ins are expensive, but they can be added later to the mudroom. The way this space is designed now it will end up quite cluttered unless you are neater than most families. I would eliminate the window between the utility room and the screen porch. I would eliminate the door between the mudroom and the house and I would use the space on the wall where the door now swings for coathooks, a console, table, etc. That one door (and the wall between the mudroom and the area where the door to the screen porch is) causes a lot of wasted space.

I would add a wall separating the laundry from the mudroom, maybe use a pocket door.

There are not enough windows in Bedroom 1. I would eliminate the one between the bedroom and the screened porch, make that the "bed wall", and then add more windows to the back wall. That one lone window tucked in the corner looks lonely.

The door from the house to the screen porch should be a french door or some other style of glass door.

Depending on how far down it is, you may need a railing on the screen porch (30" is the limit here).

The basement windows seem quite small, hard to tell without measurements. Make sure they are at least egress size, I would even go bigger.

Where are your furnace or boiler, air handlers, air condensers, etc?

Ok sorry but back to the screen porch. When you consider your foundation wall is actually doubled to an extent because you need a foundation that goes below frost line at the garage and you have the inside walls around the screen porch going to basement depth you have extra foundation /footing. To add to this the screen porch is not out in the breeze but tucked back with only the one view out. I still think if you made it a sun room you would save and possibly add a couple of piers for a screen porch out beyond that that has views to 3 sides now or in future if its still not in budget. Put piers in now and frame it at a later date ? Sorry to harp on this but Im not a fan of screen porches tucked back in and knowing the extra cost for foundation etc. Also I think I read above but why a window into screen porch instead of on exterior wall? No view and lost privacy there. Also with a pretty simple house you ever consider self contracting and saving the mark up...you could shop the subs yourself.

Thanks for the feedback!

Bigkahuna, we don't really have a frost line here. Any stable footer will be plenty deep enough. I will check about the porch since what you say about the foundation line and the brick makes sense. If it does make sense, having a conditioned crawlspace there might be a compromise between digging and slab; once which could house the mechanical stuff. (There was a deck out back in the original plan which has been deferred to some later date.)

"Is there a step down from the kitchen to the "dining" room? "
No, That's an overhead beam. (Not structural.)

"The shower off bedroom 1 is less than 40" deep. That is quite narrow. You could save additional money by eliminating either the tub or the shower. "

It's a 36x48 shower. I'm comfortable with that size. I wouldn't mind having a 3/4 bath in the master, but it's only about $1000 difference and deadly on appraisal value here to not have at least 2 full baths.

"Is that square thing in the utility room a freezer? If so, I would move it to the garage. "

Yes, a it's a freezer. The garage will not be conditioned and it will get too hot for freezers most of the year. There are no built-ins in the laundry room for now, just two cabinet bases and the utility sink.

"The way this space is designed now it will end up quite cluttered unless you are neater than most families."

Not a family, just me, and rather compulsively neat.

"I would eliminate the window between the utility room and the screen porch. I would eliminate the door between the mudroom and the house"

Hmmm. I have the window there because I want that room to get a *little* natural light. It won't be much, I know. A solatube would be the alternative, I think.

The door between the utility and the main house... I think I have to have that there, since that's the foundation line?

Regarding the bedroom 1 windows, what you guys are saying makes sense. The window to the porch was mostly there for egress reasons since the other window was going to be a long way down. But in the other corner it shouldn't be. I'd prefer the bed on the short wall, but having it onto the porch bugs me, too.

"Where are your furnace or boiler, air handlers, air condensers, etc?"
I *may* have an air handler inside. If so, it can go in the HVAC area in the basement. If not, it'll be in a single unit that goes outside. We don't have boilers and furnaces here.

Basement windows are 3' wide and 5' tall.

As for self-contracting... well I *might* save a little money. I have my doubts. One big screw up and any savings would be history and I suspect the project would take twice as long, and oh yeah, the bank won't lend money to owner-contractors any more. But I definitely don't have time. I'd only do it if I could take off work and school for 6 months to manage the project, and if I could do that, I wouldn't be so pinched in the budget! ;)

I'm going to go tinker with flattening out at least one of those stairsteps in the foundation again... there must be a way to make this work.

Nicole...well you just take all the fun out of my logic lol. Thats why its always tough to make suggestions without knowing you and your site etc. Just build without going to frostlines see if I care. :) Also look at windows in dining . Im not a fan of 3 smaller windows with too much space in between. Perhaps a picture window in center ???

I know it's hard, but I appreciate the input. Sometimes other people see something you just miss, sometimes because you've been looking at it too long!

I think the multiple windows give the house a rhythm that a big picture window wouldn't.

If I go with the hipped roof, it won't be this steep and I think I'd inject a little prairie feel into it with a horizontal band running between the floors. But here's a rough idea of the new exterior:

If that elevation is accurate you are going to need a railing around the front porch.

I forgot to add, if you keep the tub in the master bath (adding a shower head) and get rid of the standalone shower it is still a full bath. I don't see how eliminating a shower can save only $1000. You have the framing, teh rough plumbing, the finish plumbing, the shower unit (or pan and tile).

I just have to say, that is a really cute house, loving the exterior! I do like the 3 windows seperate, personally. It looks right, no logical explanation etc... I like the angled wall at the front of the pantry. Something that I have seen done at a lot of the new homes (the very fancy ones here) is to have what looks like a cabinet front, but is really a people door into the pantry, entry from the kitchen. Your location of the pantry would work for this, but not sure you want to lose the cupboard space etc... just had to mention it.

In bedroom 3, if you moved the door to the other window opening, it would leave more flexibility in furniture arrangement, but if this works for your furniture, never mind :)

I think you've done a good job redoing your plans. It is so frustrating to try to take things out!

A steep hip roof should be significantly more expensive to build than something like a 6/12 gabled roof. You won't save money going to a hip roof.

A steeply pitched roof in country that doesn't require one is a design fad. A few months ago, someone posted something like, "What current fad will scream 2009 twenty years from now?" I think it will be the needlessly steeply pitched roof and the gables galore syndrome. Both drive up the price of the build, increase the cost of maintenance, and probably will hurt resale in years to come.

This is just my opinion, so take it for whatever you will, but there is no way I would build a "buried" screened porch like the one in your plans. A screened porch needs to be in the open as much as possible in order to get that outdoors feeling and some breezes. There are other problems with yours as designed as well.

As designed, you will have to build and insulate three exterior wall portions common to the porch, instead of just one or two. That is going to increase costs. You are also building an outdoor environment over your basement. That is an invitation to leaks and adds additional insulation costs.

Your terrain shows a very steep slope due to grading in a manner that brings the land up to the screen porch level. That will require a retaining wall, another expense. If you don't grade that way, your screened porch will have to have a 36' railing, which will add to the closed in feeling of a three walled porch.

If you really want a screened porch, redesign the house so that the porch is only dependent on one exterior wall and is not over the basement, but on decking, like our build (not yet screened).

You don't have to extend the entire roof to covered the screened porch, which is essentially what we have done. You can always add a shed roof over the screened porch. That seems to be the most common way it's done.

If the deck extends beyond the screened porch, the corresponding screened wall will not require a 36" railing. The deck railing will meet the code requirement instead. It's something to keep in mind.

Lastly, orient the house and the screened porch so that it is shaded or sunny as you desire at the right time of day. The wrong orientation can ruin the functionality of the porch.

I should have mentioned, Sue, that I need the ground floor to work for someone with mobility issues. So a walk-in shower is a must. For my use, I could get rid of the tub, but they'll call it a 3/4 bath.

Thanks for the words of encouragement, midwestmama! At first I was so disappointed I really didn't like the shopped-off house, but the more I look at it the more I see that it is closer to my original vision of a simple, historic-inspired home. I like the slanted wall, too -- I originally put it in to help connect the living room with the back door and it turns out to really open up that hallway. I dislike narrow hallways. Granted, it was more impressive when there was an open 3 level stairwell.... but it still works.

Your idea with a cupboard door is interesting, but I don't think I want a big wall of cabinets there. I have one tall cabinet (in from of the HVAC chase) which "feels" right because it balances the fridge. Mostly I want to keep the kitchen open. I wrangled with a lot of ways to get the pantry to open into the kitchen and in the end I decided I was happy with it opening into hall -- it was everyone else telling me it "should" open into the kitchen that was holding me back.

I like the idea of moving the door from the inside. I might need to add a retaining wall for it. Then again, I might need one anyway. The current plan is to backfill around the front and back of the house as much as possible to a) reduce railing and steps in the front and b) not have to pay to haul the dirt and rocks away.

Off-topic, but I love the fish tank room! I have one myself, but with a 3-yr old and a 6-yr old, and a surprise on the way, I think I am going to postpone the tank for a couple of years. DH is thinking about making the stand for the tank and making it a bar for the time being. We have 2 dedicated circuits to the room. I suggest that you put in a network cable in case you ever decide to add a controller hooked to your computer. Even if it's not salt-water, these are fairly easy things to do now in case you ever want to convert later.

Geez I wish I wasn't so broke. I am ready to start the tank today!

Hi fellow fish geek! I have most of the gear already, including a controller. I am afraid I have a long history of saltwater addiction. I don't have a big tank like that right now, but that's always the cheap part. I'll probably build it myself; acrylic is easy to work with.

"A steep hip roof should be significantly more expensive to build than something like a 6/12 gabled roof. You won't save money going to a hip roof."

I've already priced the steep gable roof (it was a 1 1/2 story + part basement originally) and then a version with a gable in front with hip in back and over the garage. If the shallow hip doesn't come in cheaper, that's great since I'd prefer a partial gable in front. But I suspect, given the high price of hardiplank here, that it will. For whatever reason, hipped roofs seem to be cheaper here.

The grading of the lot remains to be seen. I do anticipate at least one retaining wall somewhere. The lot isn't really steep -- about a 12' drop over the 90' width -- but a lot depends on what's hidden below the surface. I'll hire a backhoe to do some exploratory digging before committing to the house.

"You are also building an outdoor environment over your basement. That is an invitation to leaks and adds additional insulation costs. "

The porch is on a slab, not over the basement.

Personally, I like the idea of a shady, protected porch. It's the perfect spot to watch the storms roll in. But I definitely hear the arguments why it might be more expensive loud and clear. I'm currently working on a variation that encloses that room and squares up the foundation in the basement, which really hoses my pantry, utility room and fish room. But I think I can make it work. I snipped a couple of feet off the width, too.

Okay, here are the revisions; two versions. The first has relatively mild changes. The kitchen and dining room get squeezed a foot; the laundry gets a small closet and the back entrance gets opened up ala Sue36. Unfortunately, this leaves the freezer out in the open. In the basement, the HW gets tucked into the under-stair area, allowing a much-needed dedicated linen closet. Probably very small cost savings, mostly in the reduced footprint.

The second version changes the screened porch into a sunroom ala bigkahuna. The foundation gets further simplified by removing a stairstep. These two changes put the utility/back entry area and sunroom over a crawlspace, affecting other rooms. The pantry gets downsized and moved back by the garage leaving an odd closet in the hall. The laundry and freezer get tucked away into a stretched skinny closet and now there's a long back hallway. I like getting stuff tucked away, but I'm unsure about how cramped that laundry room is by the sink and freezer.

Downstairs, the fishroom shrinks as small as it can really go and the tank hidden away instead of being a central showpiece. But, the sink is directly below existing plumbing which might save a few dollars. The family room becomes media-room sized. In front of the steps is an odd long, skinny space than can be used for storage and the HVAC. The HVAC might be able to go in the crawlspace; if not, where I've placed it it's directly under the chase above.

This version also snips a foot off the kitchen and dining and a foot off the garage width. Cost savings? Some in the foot print; otherwise I don't know.