i would cut the pool out for now. you can always put one in later and build a pool house to enclose it.

Since you trust the GC, why don't you go ahead and meet with him and ask what his suggestions are for cutting the cost by 100K? Did he give you a line item budget? He knows where the expense is, and you won't find 100K in compromised interior finishes at the point you're at with that.

We did that, and told our GC we had to shave at least 50K off ours. He had a topo survey done, which had not been done yet. Now he's looking at a less expensive way to site the house which will result in not using any expensive retaining walls. That's the kind of thing that can slash off big chunks.

Before that meeting, we took the design, which was a year of my sweat and hassling with an architect in the making, and drew vertical and horizontal lines through it. At those points we did a slash, cut and paste and reduced the house by 200 sq. ft. (it was only 3200 originally). We also had agreed to lower all the ceilings from 10' to 9'. And the savings was? $9K. We were flabbergasted.

The GC said he would have to do more careful estimates, and actually get bids on most of the big-ticket items to know more accurately what it was. So, we gave him a dollar figure that it can't go over, and said to work it up carefully and tell us what our choices are to bring the price down to our max. And we'll go from there.

I remember reading your other post about your hesitation on this house, so I feel for you.

I would make the builder the bad guy. Ask the GC where he thinks the most money could be cut with the least impact to the design, then just forward that information to your DH. That way, the news isn't coming from you but from a third party. Maybe it's not the pool and pool table, maybe it's the complicated roof line or something (if there is one).

Similiar to pinktoes we found that slashing square footage often does not equate to expected savings per foot. Your foundation and roof lines can really add to the cost so ask your contractor for ideas on reducing costs in those 2 areas as they seem to make a big difference on pricing.

My DH "had to have" a trophy room. We're talking a very large room with high walls (min 10ft) and a cathedral ceiling. We finally compromised by deciding that the garage would be finished off as his trophy room. It's a big room at 24x24 with walls over 11ft high plus the cathdral ceiling. It did not require any change to building plan or the roof except the trusses are for a interior cathedral ceiling rather than a flat ceiling. We're putting french doors on from the house into the garage (trophy room)and we eliminated the exterior garage doors and put in a french door instead. Our county taxes on square footage so we are paying more RE tax but our building cost was less for living space this way than adding another room.

That said though it's a once-in-lifetime dream for him. I already told him our next house will be much smaller and not to expect he's getting all these great guy areas. Knowing our building costs and RE tax costs I wish I'd held the line with him before we started building. While I love our new home, I would really have liked a home that was cost less and was smaller!

With the custom home we built last year, prices varied by $200,000!!! We received 4 quotes in total, and we went with the builder with the lower cost... they were slow, but VERY HONEST, and did a great job. Worth shopping around a bit.

This is where you either make it or break it. A wise woman would shut up at this point and let him come to the realization on his own that he can't afford everything he wants. You've had to come to this point (I read your previous post too and I feel for you) and now it's his turn. The best way for a man to do this is alone, NOT with the little woman nagging it into him. The more you try to "talk" to him about it, the more he'll dig in his heels and rationalize how he NEEDS whatever, even when he can hear himself how ridiculous he sounds.

I would just shut up, bow out gracefully, and let him hash it out with the builder and let THEM figure out how to do it. You're wearing yourself out trying to fit a square peg into a round hole here. Let him try to figure it out for a while.

However, I'm an old wife. If I was a young wife I would probably sit down and have a good cry and then a long heart to heart with him and carefully explain my reservations and fears, keeping the emphasis on MY worries rather than how HE needs to give up whatever. I would especially emphasis my concerns about the financial picture especially as the economy sours, and our long term financial goals. This is not a time to go crazy with every little whim and overextend yourself. As an accountant he should relate to that.

Remind yourself this isn't the whole oceanfront, it's just pebbles on the beach.
If that doesn't work open a bottle of wine :)

liketolearn: I forgot about the giant room with the Cathedral ceiling. We've got that, too, and yeah that was one he "had to have", and is likely to be pushing up the price. Because he wants the space and light we also have 53 windows in the plan. I've downgraded the 53 from Pella to an equally energy efficient other (less expensive) brand and cut $13000, but that's not even close.

Rosieo: You are a wise woman. I am an old wife, also, but obviously not old enough to have learned what you have. I will step back, stop trying to "fix" this mess and try not to worry. Luckily, we have lots of wine.:)

At year 2 of our planning, (where I was responsible for reconciling our wish lists with budgets and design) I handed everything over to DW and said "I can't do this, you figure it out!". She quickly refused. A new look at plans with a re-shuffling of priorities brought us to a decision we both could agree on.

I tend to shy away from the emotional posts around here, but I do sympathize with your exhaustion from having so much time invested in plans and still being way off from seeing them through, for whatever reasons. It is time that he be the "bad cop" in axing things from the plan to bring it into budget. I'm sure you don't want to hear this, but don't rule out starting over with a whole new plan either.

Going with with the least expensive contractor is not always the answer, they meybe cutting corners you don't want cut/ I don't know where you live so I hesitate to make any specific suggestions. There are ways around certain things, and while as you insinuated that you are setling for a laminate counter rather than a stone counter, thi is not a major issue as a countertop (not the cabinents can be chaned fairly easily in the future as money is available, the same wih wood floors instead of laminate tiles. I do not recommend cutting corners on windowsas they become a major investment to change later, but maybe a doors can be less expensive and upgraded in the future, bith inside and out. DOwngrading from architectural design shingles to standard three tab can save a bunch of money and no really affect the livability of the house. Another problem si the size of the house. I recently worked on aproject where the house was 6000 square feet for 3 people, but the wife was adamant that she could not live in a smaller house so they downgraded the furnace system, the windows, and many of the items I would never have recommended in order to come in on budget becasue she could also not give up the Italian Marbel countertop and such. In short the easiest way to overcome the ocst is to really take a hard look at the square footage of the house as in the long run it willl help save 1) Insurance Costs, 2) Heaing/ Cooling Costs 3) Taxes, and more. Can you design the house to make any additions you may wnat in the future ie. the pool table room, the endless pool, a jacuzzi, that if you could do without for a couple of years you may be able to add when situations change. Do not overextend the mortgage payment, and especially be careful about ARM's becuase as rates change they can kill you as far as payments go

it seems to me that pool table negates any good an indoor pool might do.

I agree with Tinker. Whether you trust the GC or not you should have a few comparable bids. It will help you quantify a number of things and force you to define a spec you're comfortable with. With a well defined spec and comparable bids for each piece you should be able to make an educated decision about choosing a contractor AND knowing what you can/cannot afford, must complete now/can put off until later.....The more clearly defined your spec is the more accurate your bids will be and the "less" surprises you'll have in the long run. At the end of the day I would consider an OB. If you and your husband feel like you could manage the project then you could call in your GC on a consulting basis. If you've given him a lot of business in the past he shouldn't be adverse to the situation. Depending on the total cost of the house you could easily save 100K in overhead and profit. It may be the ONLY way to "build the dream" and afford it.

I'm with letting DH, the numbers magician, figure it out from here. You go hang out in the city coffeehouses, bookstore, galleries--whatever you enjoy about your city while you still have time to do that. That will be the time you create by letting DH pick up the ball from here!

My bigger concern is that I remember you saying you do not want to take on a financial obligation that will require you to work longer--in your "retirement job" already. If you don't state that clearly everyday to him, I think you're really missing the boat. It is your limit, a clear boundary he should not cross. And up to YOU to enforce it.

In fact, before it's too late, and while you're handing the problem over to him, I would over-emphasize that limit. I would tell him that I knew how things go in your household, and that with him working even more to pay for this (overgrown) new house, he will be way too busy to tend to any maintenance. And, because of that, it is your intention to fully retire and manage the mansion once you move in. No more financial contribution from you. (You can always "change your mind" and keep working.)

Tell him that he alone will have to support the new house and pay for all the hired help. Because he will be way too busy to do ANY DIY maintenance, even lawn cutting. And your plan is to hire it all done. And you guys are getting older. Who knows when he, with his bad back already, and his overwork already, will be UNABLE to do anything.

Cast it in terms of your concern about his health. Which, I'm sure IS a concern of yours. What happens if he is suddenly unable to generate income? Will the mansion in the country be sold? Is there a ready market for it?

Just because someone can crunch numbers doesn't mean they always make the best financial decisions. Look around you for examples of that! He's so busy with work, and out of town a good bit, hasn't he realized that he'll be like all the other people who have no time to enjoy their gadgets at home? His back is so bad already that he needs to install an endless pool for therapy. So, he needs to probably cut his working hours in half, stop sitting so much, and spend time everyday in that pool. Right?

It is your responsibility to not allow him to make this your problem.

Hi,

I also have a bad back. I'd love to have a pool to help my back. OTOH, I would not get near a pool table with my bad back. Wonder what his back doctor would think of the idea of a pool table? Maybe advice from a back expert would put an end to that idea.

Take care,
Jerry

Hi,

I know the feeling. I had my brother design a house for me. But he was new to USA prices and we came in 2 x over budget. Budgeting is not easy. I still however think my brother did a great job. After all he designe Hong Kong Airport and worked for Foster Associates and Richard Rogers.

The key thing is "DON'T PANIC".

Looking at your description I think the main budget buster is the endless pool. You need to have extensive pumps, heaters, filters and cleaners. Removing that I think will make a big difference. Note also the pool is heavy. This does not mean much, but it means concrete, rebar, and hence concrete pumper hire and heavy plant.

The other recomendation is typically most houses come in about 1.3 x over original budget. (Based on my experience and that of the town inspector). So bear this in mind.

Often people do not realize in the design stage how each decision will hit them, untill the quotes come in and then they say Wow. So in my case I had to redesign from scratch. But in the end we ended up with a great house.

I also agree not going with the cheapest quote. Go for the guy with the best reputation and the guy that you can get along with. A builder can bid low and then "add on" later or cut corners ... how are you to know? If you hold him to the contract, he simply stops work. You sue him, he declares bankruptcy. In any case you have lost time, paid more on the bank loan and are generally in a bad way.

I think some careful thinking, and re-syncing to reality may be in order here. But don'd despair. It will be O.K., it may not be the Buckingham Palace of a home, but it will still be a home that you will love and be very happy in.

All the best, Mike.

Our GC's first bid came in $90 K over what we could afford. That was a 35% overagae. We met with him thanked him for his time and work and told him we couldn't afford it. He came up with lots of suggestions which I'm sure included less profit for him and we got it down $85K. A metal roof, cedar shingle siding, barn, house and garage attics, fencing and some other very nice but non-neccessary features went. Because he and we kept the project on budget we were able to use our contingency funds to add the house attic and property fencing back in. So I think you can work out this $100K difference if things as a pool and pool table are negotiable. If they aren't then mabye you don't have to make the move into a larger house in the country. You still sound not too enthused about this and maybe the house's cost will give you a breather. Good luck. Tom

Wow, Tom had a zinger of a thought there. This is great! DH has made design choices that have priced you out of a move to the country. Which you've never wanted. He just has a very subtle way of getting you what you want.

That is a thought. Maybe I should just try and relax here and figure it's the Universe getting me out of this move to the country that I am conflicted over.

Update: I'm being fairly quiet about the whole thing. I think hubby is still being fairly non-logical. His 2 solutions so far have been 1) I close down my business and work for him full time so he can take more clients, and 2) maybe the office wing is too large and we should take out my office. Obviously, he is still not thinking logically - seems like taking out my office AND working for him full time are 2 opposing ideas. Okay with me to dump my office, but that is literally the smallest room in the whole house - gonna save a whopping 144 sq ft. On the plus side, we have a cousin coming to visit with us this weekend that is pretty much a management genius - can look at figures and see immediately what will fly and what won't. He also has had some experience with building, so hopefully he can be the voice of logic and help hash this out.

I think you are in a tough spot and handling it very graciously. I agree with you that your husband is not thinking very logically, but it happens to the best of us.

You are smart to be fairly quiet - you aren't at the point of no return yet so there's still a chance he'll get more realistic on his own.

Would you consider posting your plans? People who aren't as intimately involved in your planning process may be able to spot areas where you are overbuilding more easily than you and your husband.

Wouldn't mind posting the plans, would appreciate the input. I've never done that on this site, so as soon as I figure out the system, (and my current work project slows a bit) I'll post them.