There will always remain a little water in the sump in any machine. The pump-motor is under the machine. When it pumps the water out, the water remaining in the drain hose that hasn't made it past the high-loop or air-gap will come back down there when the motor stops. Quite normal. The question is how much? Too much? I rather suspect you're fine. If you took apart your clothes washer, you'd see the same thing.

If you remain concerned, give the mfr a call and ask them about it. Ask them what a "normal" amount for that puddle should be.

Thanks asolo. The amount is about 4 oz. I am concerned about it because sometimes, not always, there seems to be a smell that comes from the dishwasher. I thought maybe it was from the water that was left there.

Ah...the smell is another matter. After a normal wash/rinse -- especially an extra-hot one -- that remaining water (4oz is nothing!) and the rest of the machine should be pristine. Shouldn't be smelly.

How often do you do a load? I'm thinking since you mentioned the filter cleaning, you've not found much there. Do you see food residue in that 4oz of remaining water? Do you notice residue on dishes or inside anywhere? There should be none. Have you checked the actual wash temperature during the cycle? Should be above 120...."sanitary" above 140. Does the smell come and go or is it always there? Are you sure it's the DW and not, maybe, the disposal?

I run a load every day. I dont find much when I clean the filter. The smell comes and goes. I dont see any residue on the dishes but at times the clean glasses do have a smell to them. I dont have a disposal, as they are not allowed in our area. I have not checked the actual wash temperature but I certainly will today when I run the dishwasher. When I do have an issue with the smell, I will run the rinse cyle with a bit of bleach and that will take care of the smell for a while.

I don't like this on-and-off smell thing at all but suspecting likely not dishwasher except......CLEAN glasses smell? Glasses only....nothing else?

Can you describe the "smell"? Sewer-smell? Rotten food smell? Bad water smell? Chemical smell? Thinking whatever odor there might be would certainly become more evident with warmth....like the warmth of your finished load so whatever's being noticed would likely be noticed in/near DW. Wondering about consistency of your incoming water, now. Is your supply from a well?

Asolo, we have this same "smell" situation with our Miele (Optima, about 7 months old now). It's pretty consistent, whether the rinse aid is full or empty, or whether we run normal or pots/pans or express (we run the DW every day). The smell is in glasses, and the only ones we care about are the wine glasses so in most cases we actually rinse our wine glasses separately (in the sink) after the DW cycle. It's hard to describe the smell.... It smells CLEAN, but with a whiff of something just a little putrid (smelly wet socks?!) It's not the worst thing I've ever smelled, but very noticable (and consistent).

We do have a well, and just this weekend we had to add some bleach to the storage tank after having some work done, and we DID NOT have the smell after the DW ran today.

We use Cascade liquid detergent, and Jet Dry rinse aid. We also have that few oz of water after each cycle, and it's clean. Our temp is 120 I believe (at least our water heater is). And the dishes are typically clean with no residue or anything.

I've never called Miele about it because it's not a huge deal, but if you think you know what it might be, any advice would be greatly appreciated!

"We do have a well, and just this weekend we had to add some bleach to the storage tank after having some work done, and we DID NOT have the smell after the DW ran today."

I don't think you're odor is Miele's problem. And I believe you've just answered your own question. Suspecting mold/mildew or similar bio-contaminant in your water supply that the bleach killed for you. However suspect the bleach will be temporary fix and it will return. Wells and well management can be troublesome.

"Our temp is 120 I believe (at least our water heater is)."

I'm sure it's at least 120F because your machine has it's own heater and will bring it to that minimum. It also has hotter cycles, I'm sure. However, suggest don't "believe"....measure it. Quick/easy with instant-read thermometer that you probably already have.

Since you mentioned wine glasses a light bulb came on for me! Both of you have mentioned that the glasses smell. Of course.... because of the way we smell them! They capture the airborne odor inside themselves and make it easier for us to sniff. Just like a wine-tasting. That's why they call some of those glasses "snifters". What you're smelling is residue from the final rinse water. However, you should be smelling it from the entire machine when you open the door, too. Are you getting that?

I would suggest this, at least, for both you and roseabbey: The next time you do one of those loads where the glasses smell.....stop right there. Go the the sink; turn the water on hot; when it gets even a little warm, put a tablespoonful full of it in you wine glass; swish it around like you'd do if you were tasting a wine and smell it. I suspect you'll find your odor right there....coming from your water supply.

Thank you Asolo, and you don't have to tell me that well management can be troublesome!! Just spent 5 days dealing with that (this time). It was a tough Thanksgiving around here with no running water.

We do get the smell upon opening the door after the cycle, especially if it's still hot. So it's not just in the glasses, but your theory about the wine glasses is spot on -- of course they're designed to get a good "nose" from the wine! So yes, we do notice it in those glasses and not the others. But, our water (from the tap) does NOT smell, so I don't think that's the issue. We have good well water (compared to others around here...some smells/tastes awful out of the tap).

So...after reading a few more posts this evening I think I might be putting in too much detergent, and the rinse aid just can't rinse it all. I'll also try your test with the warm water in a (clean) wine glass and see what happens.
But I think a little less detergent might be the ticket.

Bottom line, the dishes are clean, so I don't worry about the smell too much (and definitely don't blame the DW!)

(Sorry to hijack the thread Roseabbey! Just saw that it was so similar to our situation. Hope yours gets resolved!)

I would switch to a powder detergent. I used the Cascade Gel and liked it BUT then started having problems with machine not cleaning and it was the gel had gunked it up. Have a neighbor right now going through the same thing with a KAid and she was using the gel. It gunked up our machines so I would change. I also used some jet dry at one time, forget which one, and it caused glasses to smell. I got the blue kind the next time and the smell stopped.

We too are on a well, no smell to the water from the tap. I am going to do a water test this week and see if maybe something has changed. I do agree it is not the dishwaster as everything comes out clean. I use powder detergent and also the blue jet dry. It really makes a lot of sense why we smell it on the glasses, good point.

"We do get the smell upon opening the door after the cycle...."

"...our water (from the tap) does NOT smell, so I don't think that's the issue...."

I'm still suspecting the water....not DW or products used. Suggest this: Next time you notice that smell after a cycle, stop everything. Leave the dishes in there, close the door and run another cycle with NO detergent or rinse aid -- nothing -- in there. I suspect that when you open the door at the end it will smell exactly the same.

You said the problem went away since you chlorinated. May have to wait until the problem returns. I'm suspecting your tap water does smell -- after it's heated and aerated. Which is what the DW does to it.

Sparky823....what your describing sounds like insufficiently hot water in the machine. Do you and your neighbor know what your actual wash temp. inside the machine is?

What do you mean by "gunked up"? Can you describe better?

I noticed a musty smell from my Miele dishwasher from day one. I even left it open a bit so it would dry out before installation, I had it about 5 days before it was installed. Its been in use for a couple of weeks and the smell is still there, but not as strong as it was initially. I have never had a dishwasher that smelled like this before.

A "musty" smell from a brand new machine? I don't get this at all. They always smell sort of "new" kind of like a new car does but that usually disappears with the first or second hot wash.

Asolo- My water heater is set to 140 but yes I have used an instant read thermometer and checked the main wash temp and it was 145-146 cause I use the hi temp scrub all the time and that is 145. That also proved the dishwasher temp was correct with the cycle. Mine happened over a year ago. It was leaving junk all over the dishes,both racks. Took apart and checked the chopper and it seemed fine, a little stuff on the screen. Cleaned it and called a repair place asking what they thought. He said either temp or not enough water. Then he asked about detergent, I said I was using the Cascade Gel and he said that has a tendency to clog. I ran dishwasher Magic through it and then vinegar later on different days and it got better. Now it cleans and doesn't leave the stuff on there anymore.

This weekend happened to be talking with a neighbor and she said she had been to Lowes to look at DW's. Then told me hers was leaving all the junk on the dishes and her husband had taken it apart and couldn't find anything. I told her about mine and that I had found out it was the gel. She said Oh, I have been using the Cascade Gel from Sams called Extra Action and that is the same exact thing I was using when mine messed up. Now she has bought powder and ran cleaner through it to see if it helps hers. She has only had hers about 4 years-a KitchenAid. Mine is a KenmoreElite about 7-8 years old. I just know that changing from the gel fixed mine after several vinegar& dishwasher magic cleanings. Not sure how hot the neighbors water is, I will have to ask.

FWIW - gel detergents wrecked havoc on the prior generation on Miele DW's (Gxxx series an older). Using it was a no no.

On the current generation they have added a gel feature to most units and it adjusts the program to deal with it.

That said , I'm of the mind that Mieles use powered detergent period! Not tabs, not balls , not gel, not organic homebrew, ect... That's what they work best with and give the least trouble with. Now, should a $2000 +/- DW be able to "use what ever soap I throw in it and clean dishes anyway I arrange them" ??? Maybe. It may not be super customer friendly to have narrow requirements, but think of it like a high performance car - many only take hightest gas and there will be very limited choices for tires (if any) and it won't hold a lot of people or those with a hefty girth.

Your repair guy is all over the map. On one hand he says maybe temperature or low water, then goes on to say the Gel has a tendency to clog....which would have nothing to do with low water level or temperature. However, he has mentioned the things I, too, would focus on....except for the gel part.

What you've just described here is most likely an obstructed drain line....which is pretty common. You got it partially cleaned out with your DWMagic and vinegar so it seems like your problem's solved. I suspect it isn't and will come back....it usually does.

Suggest you take a minute and do this: Disconnect your drain line from its connection point under the sink. Get a good look in the drain line end and into the discharge connection tube. This will take minutes and will tell you a lot. Stick your finger in there and examine whatever clings to it. Whatever that is is the stuff that will be accumulating again and eventually causing the obstruction that's slowing your drain and leaving junk all over your dishes.

After that, on your next load do check the water level in the machine after the fill is complete. Fill-solenoid problems are pretty common and easy/cheap to fix if that's a component of the problem. I'll bet its fine, but there's another easy check. Low water is another culprit that will, indeed, leave crud all over your dishes. I think that's probably OK because of your description of good results after your magic/vinegar cleanout. That's why I'm suspecting the drain line instead.

From your description, I have a hard time accepting the "bad gel" theory. However, powder works fine, too so use what you want.

Of course I'm sitting here at cyber-distance and haven't seen what you've seen so I need to back off a notch. However, your description appears to me to be tell-tale.

When I called the repair guy,I told him it wasn't cleaning. He said usually either the water is not hot enough,or the dishwasher isn't filling with enough water. I told him that the water heater was on 140 plus I use the Hi Temp Scrub,then I told him the water was to the heating element. He then said,Maybe you need to try another detergent. That is when I said I was using the Cascade Gel. This is when he said they have a tendency to clog. To me, that wasn't "All over the map".

Go to Fix It Now.com Samurai Appl Repair or Repair2000.com Dishwashing Tips
Both those sites have techs telling how the gel detergents clog the pumps.They also say gels can ruin the seals and cause too much sudsing.

Maybe the gels work better for some, But for me, it caused problems.

And the drain line?

Mine was clean--at least where it connects to the sink. Mine is fine now since doing the cleaner a few times.

Haven't talked to the neighbor anymore so not sure about theirs.

Asolo-what brand dishwasher do you have? and do you use powder, gel or pacs?

Good on ya. If you were going to find trouble you would have found it there. I'll bet you're OK, now.

I have Whirlpools (Just replaced one after nine years. Minor problem, actually, with relay that controlled the heater but too expensive to repair vis-a-vis replacing.) Replaced with another Whirlpool. Except for the circuit-board issue the machine was fine. Actually sort of angry about the circumstance.

I have soft water and use Cascade complete (reformulated) with excellent results using 1tsp pre-wash and 2tsp main wash for full, dirty load. Less with lighter loads. Can't use paks with soft water because it's a huge over-dose and the paks can't be broken. Have used gel in the past with no problem except I thought messy and how does one get the last of the product out of the container?

How do you like the silver basket in the door? I feel like I would like the extra room in the bottom rack, but have read that some people feel like the silver doesn't get as clean in the door and rather have it the other way?.

Is yours the one with a grinder or one of the new ones with a filter similar to a Bosch?

Hope you don't mind me asking questions?.

Everything -- including silverware -- gets clean whether I have the basket on the door or somewhere else in the machine. Only exception is sometimes when my sister loads the machine. She doesn't understand how anything works and sometimes stacks big plates or cutting boards in front of the basket so that it doesn't get any spray. Assuming reasonable intelligence in loading, I can't imagine the silverware in that basket wouldn't get clean.

However, the silverware basket is a stupid design in one particular way. It has this latch on it so you can open it up all the way. Trouble is, that latch is so easily tripped that unless you're really careful you'll trip it by accident and spill your clean silverware all over the floor. I solved the problem via plastic ties on the corners so that can't happen. Whirlpool's been building them this same stupid way for almost thirty years, now, so it must be some point of pride thing with them.

I have a "Quiet Partner" III model which was installed a few weeks ago. It has a masticator. It cleans wonderfully but I think the machine is too noisy and am replacing with "Quiet Partner" V next week with full dealer cooperation. The V has a filter instead of a masticator. If you've shopped, you'll see all of the quietest (and more expensive) machines have filters instead of grinders.

Hope that you will give a report on the new one and the likes/dislikes. Being the "Resourse Saver" model(I believe that is what they call it with filter?) this one will use less water than your current WP? Also, do these use the alternating wash arm thing where only one arm runs at a time?

I have noticed that some of the new KitchenAid models now have a decb.rating of 49 and these are the $6-700 models. The Kenmores have those also. Have you seen the new Kenmores with the new bottom wash arm which is actually 2 arms on one? I believe GE had something similar years ago.

Keep us updated. I am interested in how well it works and how well you like it.

Can't imagine the "resource saver" feature could use less water than the one it's replacing, but maybe. The promo talks about using less water than machines manufactured before 2000 so I'm not sure it's that big a deal compared with other competitive machines today. I don't know anything about alternating wash arms.

Dba rating is around 52 which I think is as low as Whirlpool goes.

Frankly I'm not concerned about any of these features except for the noise. In the last 40 years of living with dishwashers of all kinds (KA, Maytag, GE, Whirlpool) I've never had a single one that didn't give me clean dishes every time and last a long time. I have every expectation that the GU2800XTVY coming Tuesday (replacing too-noisy 2300) will do the same.....hopefully quietly. Will certainly report if it doesn't.

We're having issues w/our Miele. The warning intake/drain light goes on - the problem isn't getting the water out (as we've put water in and it drains ok) it seems to be that water isn't getting into the diswasher. The closest Miele tech lives 70 miles away and wants to charge $250 just to look at it. No tech in our area will touch a Miele. Have any of you Miele dishwasher owners have or had this problem? Thanks.
Lisa