Since you appear to be looking at all options, another way to go is the Demeyere Atlanis cookware. It has a 2mm copper core that's completely surrounded by stainless steel, so it's dishwasher safe. I have some, and really like it. I find that the heat is extremely even--when you get a simmer going, it's the same over the entire bottom of the pan.

SolarPowered, hi, well i have the pans, copper core and the LTD and stainless, and some Calphalon one and commercial NS as well, plus one copper windsor sauce pan, i am trying to get feedback and opinions, how do you think the Demeyere pans stack up against these?

Jerry,

I haven't used any All Clad, so I can't really give a direct comparison. What I can say is that the heat in the Demeyere is very, very even, and that their "Silvinox" treatment to the steel does seem to make it clean up more easily than other SS I've used (Farberware, Tramontina, and Revere Ware). The way they run the disk out to the edge works well at preventing a hot spot at the edges. The handles are welded on, rather than riveted. The handles are cast, which is very nice; they are much more comfortable to lift than the All Clad I've examined in the store. The handles do stay cool enough to handle. The pans are quite heavily constructed--I note that the lids are a lot heavier material than on other pans I've looked at; they feel and ring more like a heavy casting than the pressed metal they are. The pans do have a pouring rim, which works well.

SolarPowered, Have you heard of Sitram,I believe thats how its spelled, They have a interior thats like a mirror, the surface is so fine that it creates a form of low stick, is that simular to what your talking about with the Demeyere?

The Sitram "non-stick" finish, I believe it's called "Cybernox", is something different. And it has a bad reputation out there for not working very well. Sitram's regular SS has a good reputation. The Demeyere is probably about half a step to a full step up in quality and weight from the SS Sitram.

I understand that the Demeyere Silvinox finish is a "reverse plating" process, where they actually plate out some of the iron from the surface of the 18/10 stainless steel. That makes the concentration of the alloying elements higher than 18/10, causing the metal to be harder and more "stainless" than regular 18/10 stainless. Because it is a more durable material, they actually recommend that you put it in the dishwasher, because the stronger detergents used in a dishwasher will clean it better than you can do by hand. I believe that All Clad, on the other hand, recommends that you not put their stuff in the diswasher, while at the same time saying that it's dishwasher safe. (Not counting their copper and anodized aluminum.)

In my experience, it works very well. I've had my Demeyere for the better part of a year, and it still looks brand new, which I can't say for some of the other stainless I have around. The only thing I have trouble with is the chili I cook, which contains a lot of tomato. I have to use a little bit of Bar Keeper's Friend on the inside bottom of the pan to get off the discoloration from the tomato. Then I put it in the dishwasher, and it comes out beautiful! We've had a couple cases of things burning dry, and the pans have cleaned up with no problem.

(I don't want to sound like this is a miracle surface--it's not. It's perhaps 40% better than regular stainless. Which to me is significant. But it's not billed as a "non-stick" surface, so I don't want to leave that impression in anyone's mind.)

SolarPowered, thanks for the info, your correct it is cybernox, i had one of there pans, you really had to use low heat, it seemed to really heat up fast then you lost the benefit. Its interesting that you would get that tomato stain, that process must when making the metal harder create micro pores that snag bits of the sauce, seems like there is a weak spot in any material, I myself dont use a dishwasher, Its not very kind over the years on the metal, most of my All-clad is either LTD or Copper core, I have only two SS pans, my 3 qt saute All-clad and a Calphalon tri-ply everyday pan, i had the SS All-clad Dutch oven but i got rid of it before i ever used it, I picked up the LTD french oven, and am thinking of getting the Emile Henry Flame, I am still researching the Flame though for any weak spots, I have not found much feedback on the flame yet, thanks again for the info JerryMB

Hi all

My latest pet peeve is warped aluminum that rocks all over my gas burners (Wolf). I own a set of the original Calphalon anodized - love the cooking performance, but when I noticed how warped my 3 qt saute pan was, AND the tilting fry pans, I went on the warpath for a few new pieces.

Am I wrong in assuming copper cores would warp less than aluminum cores?

Sitram Catering (copper clad - stainless steel) seems to be a good value on Amazon, FYI lids are sold separately, and I'll look at the Demeyere.

I'm not as concerned about appearance or dishwasher/hand wash. Prefer to stay away from non-stick for this application - I own other non-stick for other types of cooking.

Thanks!

I can't find the link now, but there's a big article on egullet.com about different metals and how they react to heat. It says in the article that copper core on All Clad is more merely for look and not function. It says that the copper is so thin it makes no difference if it wasn't there at all.

Jessy,

I've had a lot of Calphalon for a long time (over 20 years) and I've had some warranty issues including warping and non-stick coating failure. Calphalon is great at dealing with warranty issues. They replaced every piece I have ever had a problem with. I would contact Calphalon and get your warped pans replaced. If they warp again then get them replaced again.

deanb

Thanks dean we've done that several times with some pieces(also for the anodized discoloration). They are very good about taking care of problems but I just don't want to go that route every few years. As I understand aluminum, it warps. Period, end of story. My mother had the heavy duty Guardian Ware from the 1950s/60s - I just took a look at it - warped. Its not a BIG warp, I'm just bugged by the rocking as I work within this particular pan (3 qt) and my fry pans. Stock pots I'm OK with. I hope I don't pass that annoyance on to other happy Calphalon users!

I'm emailing with someone here about Sitram Catering and the (gulp) Mauviel....

Anna,

See this link for the eGullet article you mentioned.

Here is a link that might be useful: eGullet Cookware Article

I have not compared the A-C LTD and Copper Core "head to head" and am not a big fan of the A-C that I have (a half-dozen pieces distributed over LTD, MC, and SS). The advantage of the CC seems to me to be the shape--I like pouring lips. That said, copper clad in any configuration will be far less effective as a cooking vessel than will copper lined with tin or stainless. If you want a great pot, from the standpoint of conductivity and response time--both to heat and to cool--Falk Culinair, Bourgeat, or Mauviel copper is the way to go. Tin-lined copper is the best for sauces, as far as my experience goes, because of the evenness of heating and the quick cool-down time. Most practical--because you don't need to get them retinned--is the stainless steel-lined copper, but you do sacrifice a bit of responsiveness. As for A-C LTD versus copper core, from the standpoint of the respective metal combination, I would imagine that LTD is a better conductor than CC because the former has so much aluminum and the latter has relatively little copper. Just my guess.

We created a breakdown of all the All-Clad styles. Check it out!

Here is a link that might be useful: All Clad comparison guide

MK Bobby, that's disappointing to hear that the All Clad Copper Core isn't induction compatible. I was considering getting one of their CC frying pans to try out, but I guess they're not a possibility.

Hi Solarpowered,

If you had your heart set on getting Copper Core, Mauviel makes an induction disc that can allow you to use it on induction ranges. It does add to the cost of owning CC, but it can used with any kind of cookware that is not considered induction-safe like copper cookware and aluminum cookware.

Bobby

Here is a link that might be useful: Mauviel Induction Disc

Bobby,

Thanks for the pointer. I didn't actually have my heart set on Copper Core; I was mostly curious to see how CC compares with the Demeyere Atlantis frying pans. Demeyere uses aluminum, not copper, for the core in their frying pans, and I wanted to see if there is much difference in performance between the aluminum and copper cores. Using something like the Induction Disc would pretty much eliminate any advantage the copper core might have, so for me there's really not much point to the experiment.

The Demeyere frying pans use a thicker aluminum core. All clad uses different thicknesses of aluminum in their various models..you can look at the edge and see the difference.

I have copper, farberware and Le Creuset but I need a good sauce pan. What do you recommend? The link above about cookware was very informative but how do I choose A specific saucepan?

My vote (no surprise!) goes for the Demeyere Atlantis saucepans. I have their 3.2 qt. pan, and really, really love it! It has a 2mm copper disk in the bottom, so the heat is really, really even; the Silvinox finish cleans up really well, and goes in the dishwasher; there are no rivets to catch food on; and the cast stainless steel handles are much nicer than the handles on All Clad.

I've attached a link. The saucepans are the third set of pans down on the page.

Here is a link that might be useful: Demeyere Atlantis at 125 West

The copper on AC may be thin, but wouldn't it still be somewhat better than just all aluminum? I'm not so much interested in the speed as the conductivy throught the pan. I cook on electric and am trying to decide on a frying pan. I was going to go with the Atlantis till I read some guys review on Amazon about his copper core heating better on his electric than ss/alum because the aluminum didn't heat all the way to the edge if he was on a smaller burner.
I've been looking the copper lines but the bronze handles get really hot, the cast iron handles are way too heavy. Mauvel has a new line with 2mm copper (people say 1.6 is not enough and their 2.5 only has cast iron) that has stainless steel handles. Its about 285? more? Would I notice 100.00 worth of difference?

I chose the A-C SS over the copper core for two reasons--cost difference and the ability to put the SS pieces in the DW if I so desire on occasion. The pouring lip would be nice, but so far I've not found it's absence to be too inconvenient. FWIW, I am really enjoying using the pans.

FWIW, I have the Mauviel induction disc and it actually works :)

I have a lot of copper cookware and was happy to find something that would allow me to use it on an induction burner.

There are some constraints - my instructions indicated that you needed to use low power with it.

I started thinking about induction some time ago - and every new non-copper piece of cookware I've bought in the last few years has been induction capable.

I only have a couple of freestanding induction burners right now, but I hope that by the time I need to replace my range again there will be a suitable induction or induction/radiant combo stove available for me to consider.

Pretty sure you know already, but Viking does have the hybrid radiant/induction. I've have mine for about 3 wks - LOVE INDUCTION!! I don't have enough pots to use for induction so that's why I'm on this site - usually hang out in Kitchens or Appliances. My one regret is not getting the all induction. I so hate waiting for water to boil with the radian burner now!!

Thanks for the inof on ACC Copper-core. I've been considering it. I may keep looking for a minute though.