Thank you for the pics. I like to browse this site, and the layout plus 3D renderings are big and easy to see. Many of the layouts posted on this site are very difficult to read.

I love the simplicity. I have created a floorplan for myself, and just like yours, it is also a big rectangle. There is really only one thing that I dont particularly care for, and that is the garage entry and laundry room area. When my wife comes home with groceries, it usually takes several trips to get everything, and it would bug me to have to go through the laundry room and around to the kitchen. I realize that in real life, that distance is not very far, mere steps, but it would still bug me.

I would be inclined to
1. Get rid of that piece of furniture (or get a shorter piece) that would be to the right as you come in the front door
2. Move the laundry room doorway towards the front of the house.
3. Turn that little laundry room closet into a big laundry room closet.
4. Make the STORAGE area and that closet into a walk-through into the kitchen, with shelving on both sides.

So if you come in with groceries, you turn right into the kitchen storage area (both sides lined with shelving) and into the kitchen. If you and the kids come in all muddy from soccer, then you can clean up in the laundry room and continue on your way.

Since you brought up the sun issue, I think that it might be a pain to have the sun in your eyes while sitting at the kitchen table. Think about when you're in a restaurant and they have to lower the shades so you're not blinded. On that same note, maybe I'm a vampire, but I use blackout shades in my bedroom to keep the morning sun OUT, and I've actually considered how great it is that the bedroom we're building in our addition is on the other side of he house so I don't have to worry about morning sun anymore!

I do agree that there's a winding path to get groceries in from the car, and if you made the kitchen storage room a walk-through, that might really help that situation.

Personally, I couldn't live with 1 sink in the master.

Thanks for the comments everyone. The piece of furniture near the entrance doesn't actually exist :) Please disregard the furniture, it's just there to fill things up a bit. Also the finishes are just the software defaults, disregard them as well. The storage area off the kitchen is actually the pantry, sorry if that wasn't clear. Are you all suggesting we have a door in the pantry that leads to the garage just to cut down the distance from the trunk to the kitchen? Sorry this doesn't make much sense to me, we'd lose five feet of shelving, we'd have nowhere to put our shoes or coats so we'd end up tracking in dirt into the pantry/kitchen, we'd have two doors connecting the house and the garage which seems excessive.. just to cut down the walk from the trunk to the kichen counter from 36' to 28' (measure in the software)? The difference seems negligible no? If the car was parked in the driveway the distance would be more like 70'. The way it is now I would imagine we could open the door, dump all the groceries in the mudroom, take off our boots and coats (especially in the winter). Then take everything into the kitchen to sort it out. Regarding two sinks in the master, is it something typically found in 1700sqft homes? There isn't really room in this design, and it's definitely not something we personally need, but I would hate to omit it if people would be expecting in a house of this size. We probably won't use the fireplace much either but they're a dealbreaker for a lot of people.

Regarding the sun rlthomas7, we definitely have different sunlight tolerances :) Some people like morning sun and I know some people hate it (like you). Can't please everyone :) At the moment we live in a loft with two big south facing 14'x14' windows, our curtains are just a plain white cotton so when the sun is too much we close them a bit. It cuts the direct sun but everything stays nice and bright. I guess we could do the same for the patio door by the kitchen table. Anyone have the setting sun on their dining table?

Thanks!

It seems to me like you've been really efficient with the space except the laundry area. Sounds like good suggestions from others there. You could still have two exits out like you do now.

The one thing that bothers me about my current bedroom is windows behind the bed. I wish I had put the windows at the same height as they currently are, but offset to the side of the bed instead.

Maybe I'm misunderstand what people are suggesting regarding the pantry/laundry. What don't you like about having windows behind your bed? I'll be honest I didn't put much thought into that, is it a problem?

This plan fails to meet Sue's 'must have' of a powder room near the family entrance. It may not be YOUR family's 'must have' but it is the most used facility in our house.

I don't like the 'square corner run' to the pantry OR entering via the laundry area. (Tracked in dirt + clean clothes = crazy-making.) I'd put the washer and dryer where the dryer can vent away from the front door. I'd want the laundry tub near the washer. That pantry run is the kind of thing that gets very annoying because it's a constant task.

In our house the back hall is the 'staging area' for coming in and going out. My laundry area is at one end, but you don't have to cross through it to get in and out. I store 'pantry' stuff in the back hall closet. It's steps from the kitchen, and I have enough upper and lower cabinets right IN the kitchen for everyday use.

If you move the garage forward a little you'd gain a larger deck and a kitchen window. (You don't need a window in a garage.) I'd make the garage a bit larger (24 X 24). You'll have more car-door-swing room and room for kids' stuff. Your front elevation would be less bland too.

If YOU don't want a fireplace, don't build one -- especially not a corner FP that takes up so much room. A buyer could add a vent-free.

We almost never use our foyer closet. We come and go via the garage. Guests can put coats in a bedroom. IMO you could make a smaller foyer and use the space better in the back hall entry.

chisue, thats a serious critique, thanks!:

What do you mean by family entrance? The front door? I'm not sure what you mean, are you suggesting we add a third bathroom on the main floor of a 1700sqft house? That seems very excessive. Definitely not going to happen :) From the furthest corner of the house it's probably a 7 second walk to the main bathroom, that seems pretty reasonable.

What do you mean by square corner run to the pantry? The pantry is in the the kitchen, instead of it being a typical floor to ceiling cupboard, it's a pocket door that opens to 10 linear feet of shelving. Most often used items like cereal, peanut butter, baking stuff would be in the cabinets or drawers in the kitchen.

Regarding the dryer vent, it can vent sideways out the two foot wall by the edge of the garage door, would just have a bulkhead. I originally had the laundry room and garage entrance split but instead one big bright room with a window like I have now, I had two tiny awkward spaces.

Regarding the larger garage, I tried moving the garage forward but it looked strange, it didn't really do anything for the elevation? also it still wouldn't allow me to put a window in the kitchen because I'd have to swap the stove for the sink and I'd rather not have the stove near the seating on the peninsula. We could always make it 22x24?

Regarding the front entrance, half of the year we'd probably be using that entrance and not the garage. One common theme I've noticed in every house I've visited that has kids, the closet is always jam packed and over flowing. No one ever has enough closet space, so I figure with the closet at the entrance and the closet in the mud room, depending on the season one will be the main closet and the other for overflow and guests. There's no way I'm getting rid of storage space :) We're in Quebec, we have very cold winters and lots of coats and snowpants.

Regarding the fireplace, thats a good suggestion. My wife wants one, but I'm pretty sure we won't use it :) We'll probably get one :) if so I'm sure they make small ones? Alternatively we'd probably just stick a big chair in the corner that no one would ever sit in because no one ever sits in the corner chair beside the tv so it wouldn't be a great sacrifice to put in the fireplace. We could put a big plant there I guess.

I like what you've done with 1700 sq feet! I found that posting my plans, people did give me suggestions that really made me think.. and some of the suggestions given just wouldn't work, for the way WE live. Everyone lives differently, and chisue's must have powder room wasn't on my must have either.. but some other the other suggestions were really helpful!

I myself, don't like windows over beds either. I view a lot of model homes and don't really recall seeing them. Looking at your master bedroom, which is almost the current width of mine, I have two windows over the night stands, looks great and gives me plenty of light.

There is something about the garage entry, laundry area that looks off.. but I can't tell you how to fix it as I'm struggling trying to figure mine out! LOL all and all though, I like your plan... what software did you use to design it?

I like the simplicity of your house. We have a 3000 sf ranch with no basement. It's a big rectangle, but very functional. We found a designer who was able to make it look pretty too.

I find it awkward that the entrance to the house from the garage is at the side of the cars. Usually, you enter from in front of the cars. I don't know if a side entry garage is something you would be interested in, but it does help with looks on a house. You would probably have more room to walk into the house if you were walking in front of the cars instead of beside them.

My suggestion for entry into the house from the garage would be to move the pantry over to where the closet is and use that area where the current pantry meets the garage wall for an entrance. The mud room could be turned to face the opposite direction. The closet that was displaced by the pantry could be moved over to the current garage entry area.

Most of the time, master bathrooms are the biggest bathroom in the house. Your public bathroom is bigger. Your master need more counter space.

I'd shorten the second bathroom. I think it's ok if the door opens into the towel racks. I think that would give you room to adjust that third bedroom door.

Another random thought...Have you thought about moving the master closet to the span along the living room wall? You could still have a walk-in, but it would be long and narrow. This would free up some space to adjust the master and other bathroom. I would move the master toilet to the rectangle by the master tub and reconfigure the bathroom. so the rectangle sort of is longer in the other direction. It would free up some space to rearrange the other bathroom and you then work with the entrance into the other bedrooms.

I'm not sure about having a 4' hallway. I think you need to keep them wide enough in case you ever need to take a wheelchair down them.

I'm not sure if this is an issue in a house with a basement, but when we had a two story house, we liked having a door at the end of the stairs for the purpose of temperature control. We always closed off the upper level so we didn't have to heat and cool the area unless we needed it.

I can't tell if that is a washer or dryer closet to the front entry. The problem with having a dryer right next to the entry is that it vents to that area. You get lint right at the front door where the guests come in.

My last house faced north and I hated it. We tend to get ice storms here in winter more often than snow. It took forever for the ice to melt on the north side of the house. Another peeve I had was that I couldn't plant a lot of my favorite flowers on the front side of the house because it was too shaded.

You may get too much sun in your dining room, but you could plant some fast growing trees and shrubs to minimize that.

I prefer to have a seperate toilet. I would try to put one in the laundry.

Sorry guys but I just don't understand the obsession with entering the house from the garage via the middle of the kitchen (pantry). I understand it makes bringing groceries in easier but lets face it, 19 times out of 20 someone will be coming or going through the garage or mudroom and will not have groceries so it doesn't seem logical to me to force ALL of that traffic through the heart of the kitchen? I'm just not getting it I guess. adellabedella, i like your idea of a side entry garage! will definitely look into it.

Unfortunately I cannot shorten the main bathroom, if I do it means the master bath and closet have to be shortened and they're already as small as I'd want them. I figured throwing the linen closet in there was a good use of the space? By doing the re-arranging you mentionned it doesn't solve the issue with the corner bedroom entrance, all it does is allow us to make the main bathroom smaller, and we lose a classic walk-in closet for a long wall closet. I don't mind if it's bigger than the master, especially if it has the linen closet and garden tub in it. The kids will be taking about 100 times more baths than us and the bathroom will be used by more people. The tub you mentioned in the master bath is actually a shower. That box between the sink and shower would have built in shelving for towels and toiletries. We could make more counter room by making the shower smaller but again I'm not sure that's worth it. We have a small pedastal sink at the moment that has no counter space and we have no trouble with it. We also have a small 36" corner shower stall and could definitely use something larger. The one in the plan is 60"x35".

You're saying a 4' hallway is not wide enough? :) I thought we were being luxurious by bucking the 3' standard. A wheelchair will fit in a 4' hallway as it fits in my aunts 3' hallway.

That's a good tip about the basement heat loss, it won't be an issue however since our basement will always be kept colder than upstairs.

Regarding the dryer vent, we would put in a bulkhead along the ceiling and vent it by the small 2' wall section beside the garage door, away from the front porch.

We definitely want a North facing house. In Quebec we get snow and have a short flower season. We want lots of light and lots of windows and all of those windows at the back of the house for privacy.

tinker 2006: the software is called chief architect

Thanks for all the advice!

It's a great use of space and the layout can really work.

Regarding the window behind the bed, you can do small upper windows so it actually sits higher on the wall above either side of the bed or behind the bed and doesn't obstruct furniture. That way, it still allows for lots of natural light in the BR.
One thing I did notice is that your kitchen hood fan doesn't vent out to an exterior wall so make sure to vent it through the roof. Same goes for the fireplace, you can get a zero-clearance fireplace and vent it out through the roof if you want to put it on the long wall somewhere and utilize that space a little better.
I would definitely consider getting rid of the smaller closet in the laundry room and reversing the opening to that space into the hallway and make that a powder room. You can still use the same dimensions you have now and avoid guests walking though your bedroom area.

I think 4' hallways are plenty! I also don't think you need another powder room in a 1700 sq' foot house, there is a bath room in the hall guest can use. I currently live in 3200 sq ft and don't have a powder room and don't find the need to have one, but a lot of GW people like that idea, but we're all different. I'd much rather have storage space in my smaller home than another bathroom that may be used on occasionally... but that's just me!

As far as the laundry room entrance, I do see what others are saying and they make sense. What I would suggest, and what I've been doing, is go online and look at stock home plans around your size and see what the designers have done with the bath/garage entry.

I also like the idea of a side entry if you have enough room on your lot.

thanks junab, i appreciate your advice but i really don't think we need a powder room, i don't mind guests going into the bedroom area. a closet for things like the vaccuum, cleaning stuff, broom/mop, etc.. will be much more useful i think. i've reworked the laundry room, got rid of the big long redundant closet and turned it into a shoerack/bench area with lots of coat hooks. the room is a little bigger now, there's room for a sink. maybe i'm not understanding what everyone is saying about the laundry room, if someone has a second and can post a rough sketch it might help because i feel like you're all on the same page but i'm not following :)

Hi! Nice drawings- I like the software you've used, it shows everything so well. I understand what you are saying about storage, the more the better ! But I also understand what everybody is saying about walking into the laundry room. I have that situation now & I hate it. Mine is where everyone pretty much comes in to the house- our back door off of the carport. It's always trashed from stuff tracked in on people's shoes. You can see all of my laundry- there isn't enough room for all of the laundry/hanging clothes to dry, the counters I do have end up being a big catch-all. None of those issues could end up being your, sense you are coming off an actual garage. But some of them could...
I've drawn up an alternate plan, but have no idea how to post it. Come in from garage through current pantry, take out large closet- turn it into the new pantry opening to new garage door- don't even need a door there- I don't think. Turn right into the kitchen or left into the laundry room. turn closet onto the garage wall going to about where you have the chair now. Door into foyer from laundry move down closer to front door, but not obstructing it.
I like the suggestion about a little larger garage & coming off the front of the cars, maybe then the freezer you show could go in the garage & make room for a sink in laundry room.
I also think a 10' bedroom by anything is awfully small. the 10' x 10'-4" is going to be really small as your kids grow. Just a thought. also might think about a double sink in hall bath- if you have 2 kids especially girls as they get bigger- it might be nice for them each to have their own space.

Good Luck - it's a pretty nice plan as is. Everybody lives differently, so this plan I'm sure has had a lot of thought put into it as to how you live. And in the end - you will be living in it, not any of us

Not going more directly from the garage to the kitchen just doesn't make sense to me; it really seems inconvenient the way it is, and it doesn't need to be that way.

I'd put the door in from the garage where the present R pantry shelf is, put the pantry where the closet is, with its door opposite the "new" entry door from the garage, and put the closet to the L of the door coming in from the garage. Or at least play around with it in a similar configuration.

Anne

I also don't get why people are so insistent you have such a quick trip from the garage to the kitchen. My first thought about that is ick, everything on the bottom of one's shoes is going to be tracked into a pantry and then a kitchen, places where food is stored and prepared?!

Yes, your current setup means dirt will be near clean clothes but if you keep your washer/dryer where they are in the last pic, and people adhere to taking their shoes off near the bench, there shouldn't be a problem.

It makes much more sense (to a clean-floor freak like me) to enter into a mudroom, where you can take your shoes off first. If groceries become a pain you could a) have someone feed them to you with one person in the garage, the other in the mudroom b) you bring each bag in yourself and sit them on the floor in the mudroom, then take your shoes off and move them into the kitchen or c) and the most radical idea: make a pass thru (i.e. a small opening) from the mudroom into the kitchen pantry.

I'm glad to see you redrew your plan with space for a bench and shoe/coat/bag storage. My friend's house has a very small mudroom and all their shoes are piled up against the base of the washer/dryer/sink. I'm living in an older home now with a very small front foyer and side foyer and shoe clutter is an issue.

I really like your plan, but then I grew up in a ranch, and, after living in an older 2-story, can't wait to move into one again.

The only critique I have is it seems like there isn't much kitchen counter space. Is it possible to make the stove run longer (bring it closer to the patio door)?

Sorry if this is a repeat, but I'm having a hard time reading all of the comments because the margins have been pushed.

Is there a door on the master bath? It doesn't show on the plan or the renderings. If not, I would suggest trying to work one in. It would help in allowing one partner to sleep undisturbed when the other has to use the bathroom.

Good luck with your build - Jo Ann

When I refer to the 'family entrance' I mean the door where y'all most often enter the house from the outdoors. Nobody in our household uses the front door. We DO use the door from the garage and one from the back yard. Both get you right into the back hall. The reason our back hall powder room works so well is that nobody has to track through the house to use it. (It's a mess issue, not a matter of distance or time to another facility.)

Our under-2000 sq ft ranch had two and a half baths. The the powder room in the back hall got lots of use -- much more than the full bath in the BR hallway or our master bath. If you have more than one child and 'everybody' needs to use a toilet, where do they all 'go'? LOL

I wouldn't get hung up on dedicating a space as 'pantry'. Any closet convenient to the kitchen can be used to hold 'pantry' goods -- AND it can be divided for coats, mops, etc. It doesn't have to be right off the kitchen; it can be in the back hall.

The 'square corner' is the march from the garage, through the laundry, right turn towards the kitchen, right turn into the kitchen, right turn again into the pantry.

Four-foot hallways are fine; nobody disagreed with that. I like three-foot doorways too!

Few people like to sleep backing to a window. You have a perfectly good wall for the bed anyway. I like that the BR has two windows. (You may want a transom light over the foyer door unless it will have some glass in it.)

The panty off the kitchen is where we will keep all of our food, bulk stuff, rarely used pots/dishes, etc. I definitely wouldn't want to move that to the closet off the main hallway as that is something we will use dozens of times a day, it needs to be as convenient as possible. To sacrifice that convenience just to save a couple of seconds the once or twice a week we have groceries to bring just makes no sense to me. Nevermind the fact that why would we want all the traffic coming and going through the garage to go right through the middle of the kitchen? I wouldn't want the front door of my house opening beside my stove, so why the garage which will likely see an equal amount of foot traffic?

I agree with kitchenlover, I'd much rather have a mudroom off the garage where people can take off their shoes, hang up their clothes, drop off backpacks, etc.. I guess I just don't understand the need to connect the garage to the kitchen. I also thought of making a passthrough into the pantry, it would be quite simple, something as simple as a window design. But it just seems unecessary? I don't see the problem with walking a few extra feet. I guess it's because I grew up having to get dressed to walk 100 feet to get groceries from the car parked in the driveway when it's -30 out. Or now where we probably have to walk 400 feet from our car to the door of our apartment, and up two floors. I can't fathom ever being annoyed by a 36 foot indoor walk with no stairs :)

Drjoan, good eyes, I keep forgetting to put the door in for the bathroom, but yes there will be one :)

chisue, your powder room got more use than the main bathroom because it was more convenient. But if your powder room didn't exist, would it have been a big deal for people to just use the main bathroom? We'll have two bathrooms upstairs and one downstairs, so plenty of bathrooms. and people can also wait their turn :) Regarding the bedroom, are you saying we should lose the window on the long wall in the master bedroom?

You guys are tough! But I like it, thanks :)

You asked about the setting sun on the dining table. Yes, I have that and it is horrible. So much so that I bought a square patio umbrella and keep it open right next to the window to block out some of the sun while eating dinner. I have no trees near this window.

Do you think a rising sun would be any better? We could always flip the plan.

I'm afraid you are misunderstanding us. I havent seen anyone lobby for a garage-into-kitchen route. We all like the garage-to-back-hall route. The problem some of us have is the garage-to-pantry route.

Did you look at Anne's suggestion for switching 'pantry' and 'closet'?

We all live differently. I store my everyday foodstuffs in the kitchen cabinets (uppers w/doors and some lowers w/drawers). I don't need to visit a 'pantry' more than a couple times a week -- not many times a day, as you plan.

My bulk food storage -- and all that Costco stuff, LOL -- is in a portion of the 2 X 9 reach-in back hall closet that is between my kitchen and my garage. It has shelves and rods. The central vac hose lives there, as do mops, brooms, pails. I can hang-dry some laundry there. The ironing board is there. The extra leaf for the DR table is there. (You get the picture; it's multi-purpose storage.)

A problem I have with pantries off kitchens is that you have to deal with a door (or look into a dark hole) and you have to give up space for a person to stand inside the closet. I wouldn't want a pocket door there -- how to open and close it with your hands full?

This reminds me: Take another look at your MBR closet. You might have more actual storage with reach-in closets. This looks like you have a 3 X 3 space to stand in while dressing and no room for a place to sit down (shoes and socks).

I wouldn't worry about the sunset. Surely you can have blinds or curtains you could tilt or close if that's a problem while you dine. You'll enjoy having the light the rest of the time. Our breakfast room has a pair of French doors facing east. Depending on the time of year we will lower the between-the-glass shades to block the sun. Depending somewhat on the depth of your roof overhang, this would only be a problem part of the year anyway -- if you're even eating when the sun goes down.

When I look at a plan I try to 'live' in it. I walk into the house from the garage. I think about where I'll take off my coat and shoes or boots; where I'll put the car keys, library books, mail, dog's leash, cell phone. I think about getting kids dressed for outdoors -- the room required for everyone to put on coats and boots. I think about kids coming in from play, needing the toilet, going back out again. I think of DH and I going in and out from yardwork. I think about where I'm going to wash the dog's paws. (You can see why our foyer gets so little use and our back hall and powder room get a lot of use.) BTW, where will your children come in from playing?

I'm merely saying that the back hall powder room has always gotten more use, and it has spared the rest of my house from in-and-out kids and dirty gardeners. It's also convenient for 'the cook'!

I'd either place your beds on interior walls (usually warmer, for one thing) or flank a bed with windows. I've visited a couple homes with only high-on-the-wall windows in the bedrooms; they felt like basement rooms.

If you're comfortable 'walking around' in this plan, it's the plan for YOU!

I don't think closets work very well for family coats and boots. Hooks on the wall and low benches with shoe storage under them do work.

Just my opinion...
I am currently living in a 1750 sqft house.
One of my pet peeves that I am not doing in our new build is NO CORNER FIREPLACE! I am not a home designer but I have a hard time arranging the room.
Its one way and that's it no changing things up a bit! Ughhh!

A window behind the bed means if you have a headboard it will be covering the window, or if you want to sit up in bed your head will touch the windows. Ours are 30" up so pillows doesn't hit the windows so I generally prop several pillows behind me so I don't lean against the windows. I've been looking for a head board to use that won't make it look funny with the windows there too.

You could easily add a window near the corner and then one where the chair is, or just cover the rest of the wall with windows except where the bed would be and have a wall just where the bed is and have lots of light still. Don't remove windows on that wall, just space them out to the sides instead.

I've done the walk with groceries plenty and still do some. I don't think it is a huge thing, but what I do wish for is where it is easy to get the groceries to the kitchen without having to take off my shoes and still keep things clean. Looks like you have an opportunity to solve that which is something I would do if I had the opportunity, but I wouldn't put an entrance from the garage to the kitchen. I'd have something from the mudroom to the kitchen.

We have a 2300 sq ft house and have 2 baths - the master and the main bath. I wouldn't worry about a powder room. It doesn't seem like you need one, we don't miss one. If we had one would we use it yes, but it's not a big deal.

kbncan, if we put the fireplace on the wall, the tv goes in the corner. if we put the fireplace in the corner, the tv goes on the wall. there really isn't really a whole lot we can change about the furniture arrangement. i've found that most living rooms tend to only work one or two ways, in this design there's really only one layout because there's only one wall.

chisue, thanks for yet another detailed reply! i think i understand you more, but we have no issue with the garage to pantry route. when we bring in groceries everything goes on the counter and then its sorted (fridge, cupboard, pantry/cold room, etc) so even if the pantry was where the closet was, we wouldn't just drop all our groceries and start sorting what goes in the pantry. the first place our groceries will stop is the floor in the mudroom where we take off our shoes and coats, then the kitchen counter. from there either pantry location is the same distance. the way i understood anne's suggestion we'd come from the garage into the mudroom with a door to the pantry in front of us and to our right the door into the heart of the kitchen. i don't like the idea of going from mudroom to kitchen, or of having to walk into the mudroom to get to the pantry.

as for the pantry, i really like the idea of having it right off the kitchen. most people we know have a big floor to ceiling cupboard that is usually an overstuffed mess in their kitchen, and then a big shelf in the basement with all their extras and bulk stuff.. but we have one friend that has one huge pantry right off their kitchen, and its seems wonderful. when you think about it though there's very little food that you use daily, most of that is in your fridge.. so we'd have stuff like cereal, oatmeal, snacks, peanut butter, juice boxes, etc.. in a cupboard and some drawers by the fridge and the rest would go into the walk in pantry. everything we could ever need in the kitchen would never be more than 5' away. you mention not liking having to deal with a door, but i'd say more than half the kitchen cupboards i've seen in my life have been a hinged door into a 2x2' shelved, dark closet. so this is the same, its just a lot bigger inside, and we'd have a closet light inside.. the ones that turn on automatically when you open the door. i don't know, it just seems perfect in my mind :) by doing it this way we get 9-10' of storage.

as for the MBR closet, we have 18 linear feet of storage with the current configuration, we'd probably get a third of that with a reach in. i never envisioned getting dressed in the closet either, i would get dressed in the bedroom?

im also not worried about the kids coming in and needing the toilet, no matter what they've got to take off their shoes, after that whether they walk 10' or 30' doesn't really matter to me and i doubt it will matter to them :) in the summer when things are dry and there are no coats, snowpants, boots, hats, and mits.. i'm sure the kids will use the path of least resistance and come in off the backyard deck. otherwise, they'll come through the garage/mudroom.

thanks!

OK, I 'surrender' on the half-bath in the back hall/mudroom/laundry (whatever we'll call it) and the pantry IN the kitchen.

I won't give up yet on the door TO the pantry. Think about walking up to the pantry door with your hands full. If you have a swing door, you can just push it INTO the pantry. If you do use a swing door I'd like a window in it so that you don't push it open the other way, into the kitchen, when someone is standing in front of it. (You'd also save the wall space a pocket door requires.)

We dress and undress IN our walk-in closets. To me, that's one of the nicer things about having one. All our clothing is there, on rods and shelves and in drawers. There's a laundry hamper, a small ottoman and a mirror in each one. Neither MBR closet is huge; we aren't clothes horses! Ours flank a short hallway from BR to bathroom, with pocket doors that we seldom close.

I don't see 18 feet of storage in your closet. (Hanging clothing takes 18" depth.) How will you use the interior corners and the back wall, assuming you run rods on the side walls?

I'm not discouraging you from HAVING a walk-in, just wondering how you'll use it. There's obviously not enough room for two people to dress in this one at the same time. LOL

You can keep the kitchen/garage layout as you have it, but invest in a rolling cart to transport the groceries from the garage entrance to the kitchen. You've got good landing space near the fridge and pantry, and you state that the layout there works for you.
As for the master bedroom, I'd replace the window behind the bed with two windows behind the night stands.
Your closet can have, at a minimum, 18 feet of hanging space: 7'9" on each wall and 2'6" on the back wall. You can get more by doubling up on one long wall, for a total of 25'9". You could get even more space by replacing the pocket door with French doors, which gives you space on the inside closet doors for hooks, shoe storage, and other narrow items.

chisue swing door with a window sounds like a good idea. the master closet is 6'6" x 7'9" so we'll have about a 3'x6' area depending on how we set it up. i think thats plenty of room to get dressed should we start doing that. the 18' is 7'9" on either side + 2'6" at the back should we need it.. we were planning on doubling up one side with one low rod and one high rod so we'll probably just put a mirror and seat at the back wall. im definitely not worried about us dressing at the same time, it takes about 1 minute to get dressed so the odd time our schedules collide at such a precise moment someone can go throw their clothes on the bed and get dressed if there isn't room for two or waiting a few seconds is not an option :)

suero, i thought about putting small windows over the night tables but then we're stuck if we change bed size or want to move everything closer or further to/from the side wall. which was also a concern having the regular window behind the bed, your bed ends up having to go in precisely one location. hows this instead?

{{gwi:1497516}}

Very active thread....

My wife's house when we met was 1700 sq feet and had a seperate toilet room in master and a double vanity. I'm not saying that her house was a better layout - just saying that double vanities are common in my limited experience at 1700 sq ft.

My wife and I lived in 1000 sq ft when we were building. On the top 5 list of annoying things was not having a double vanity in the master bedroom.

Every time we go to a hotel that has a small bathroom .... well you get the idea.

But hey - we live in the South where I think we have really large bathrooms. The cold is less of an issue so we can spread out. My wife's 1700 had a seperate shower and tub also....

I was just remembering a friend's 1500 that was new tract construction at the low end. They had room for 2 sinks but only 1 was there.

Another one. Partner's beach house is 1500 sq feet - double vanity in master.

So from memory (on newer construction 1993-2005) in the South 3 of 3 homes at 15-1700 have double vanities (with 1 just having 1 sink installed)

I'll tell you what I don't see at 1700 is both bar seating and an EIK. Doesn't leave enough room for counter tops for prep. Try to imagine the blender/toaster oven/etc. Try to imagine cutting chicken ... now where are the kids supposed to sit? I realize you don't have a dining room but seating for 4 in such a small kitchen is killing your counter space.

One thing I don't understand completely. If you are really building a 3400 sq feet house, why cram so much into 1700? Just a thought. I think I'd try to convince my wife to put one or all of the bedrooms in the basement. I personally think the basement is great for bedrooms - cool, dark, super quiet ... but the wife doesn't agree. Imagine the walkin closet, double vanities, and kitchen counter prep area.......

Interesting, there's definitely room for a double vanity if we cut back the shower to a standard corner sized stall. We've been living in apartments together for 5 years and I don't think we've ever been in the bathroom at the same time and thought "i wish we had a second sink". I think it helps a lot that we've always had a really big mirror that extends over the toilet. I have dropped the soap in our current shower shower stall and thought "i wish this was bigger" :) I'll have to look around at recent constructions in our area (Quebec) to see if it's something people are putting in homes of this size.

Regarding the counter, the area left of the sink is 6' x 39" so it's a decent size. I imagine most of the messy food prep would be done in the area between the sink and the stove. If we need to spill over and make a huge mess on the other side then people can just sit at the table instead. The bar seating is mostly for kids/guests hanging out while someone is in the kitchen, doing a little homework, drawing, eating snacks, etc. We'll still have the same amount of counter space whether the seats are there or not so it doesn't actually make any difference. The seats take up one inch of space when pushed in, the only thing we would gain if we lost the seats is storage space under the counter where the seats are, but we don't need it.

And regarding why have so much on the first floor? Because that's where we will live. If we put a bedroom in the basement and have two kids then what? Certainly not going to put a toddler in the basement. We could put the pantry and laundry room in the basement, and then we'd forever be going up and down stairs like everyone we know in 30 year old homes.. the whole point of building a home is to avoid that :) With our design we've tried to put all of the things we'll need everyday on one floor, in as an efficient layout as possible. If I could change one thing it would be to move the laundry room closer to the bedrooms. Having everything on one level will also be handy when we get older. I want to spend as little time as possible in the basement as possible. Good area for a kids tv/playroom, guest bedrooms, storage, and an office.. but not for day to day life, for me.

Oh-ho! I thought you HAD kids, not that they were planned. You can't *know* about kids running in and out and how crowded a back hall can get when everybody's leaving for work or school. I was thinking you had older children. This changes things.

I don't see enough room for 'sprawl', unless you are OK with sharing your LR with the clutter of toddler's and young children's toys. They will not be using a basement playroom for years; it's too far from Mom. The family BR's are on the small side, and that's fine IF there are other places in the house for children.

I want one-floor living too. IMO basements are just that. Even walk-out basements have three solid walls without windows. I think you'll want a little bigger house during your 'family' years. This could be your 'retirement' house; you'd need to increase the door widths, and the bathroom is too tight. Maybe you don't need a full basement, but I think you'd like a larger first floor.

The MBR closet is sounding good.

How about planning for a king size bed with windows flanking it? If you use a smaller bed, that will be OK too. (I prefer an interior wall for any bed.) If you decide to offset the bed on the exterior wall I'd leave the windowed corner for chair, lamp, small table.

I am very happy not to share a sink with my DH. (Maybe you are a clean freak; he's not.) A smaller shower in the master bath is fine as long as it provides 'elbow room'. Most buyers would expect a larger master bath.

FWIW, My DH and I spent a lot of time finding a lot where the garage could be on the cold North side of the house; where the kitchen and screened porch could face East; where the LR could face South. The sacrifice was that our MBR faces SW -- better in winter than summer!

In the entry do you need that closet there and the bench on that side. You have the closet right around the corner in the laundry/mudroom. Maybe you could remove that and the bench or recess a bench on the other side and then make the small bedroom bigger, or just a narrow bench, as I'm guessing mostly you'll be using the mudroom.

A 10x10 is small. We have 10x12 rooms and I wish they were about 10x14.

BTW with entering the house from the side of the parked cars, make sure you have a large enough garage so you can actually move around the cars with the garage door closed.

Haha no kids, yet :) We don't mind having the kids play in the living room especially in an open concept layout. Can watch them from anywhere, keeps things lively. My sisters did this and it works well. The big deep drawers beside the computer desk will house the toys and we could put a trunk under the window by the fireplace if it isn't enough. When the kids get older (4-5+) they can just go in the basement like you said.

I am actually quite neat and tidy, I guess that's why we don't have an issue sharing a sink. We'll have to think about the double vanity vs large shower some more but I really think we would get far more out of a larger shower. As far as the master bed, there's really nowhere else to put it. With night tables we'd be nearly 10' wide and 7' long. It makes the most sense to put it against the longest wall, it leaves the most room for walking around, or having a chair/table in the corner like in the photo. I tried windows above the night tables but it looked a little strange in the 3D view, do you have any photos showing it off nicely?

The kids bedrooms are big enough, 90-120sqft is standard size around here and ours are 105' and 125'. Kids beds are tiny, plenty of room to play and if not just put the beds up against a wall. They'll also have a huge room in the basement so I'm not too concerned. In the states you guys do everything bigger. In Montreal everyone we know that has a detached house is in the 1000-1200sqft range. We have many friends living in Europe and not one of them even owns a detached home. It's all relative, what is small to you is going to be very big for us :)

Here is another option you could do for your master and get more closet space and double sinks. It does give you a slightly smaller master though. However to me that would be worth it as I only spend time in the master to sleep.

Here is a link that might be useful: Another master option.

Well if you have two kids it helps having the same size rooms for them. Seems to me like you have the opportunity to create that now.

I grew up in Europe and lived there until my 20's and I still don't go for super big places, but there are certain things that if you have the chance to do it I would because having the extra space is nice, just like having storage space is nice, however it is easier to create storage space in an existing structure than it is to grow room sizes.

Your plan for play space is what we do right now as it honestly works best when they are small if you want to be able to get something done and not spend all your time in their playroom. We have a train table as our coffee table and the breakfast area is a play area. Perfect when I'm in the kitchen.

I like it! I swapped the closet for the bathroom since it makes more sense to keep the bathrooms together. I also opted for one large closet instead of two small his/her closets, it just looked strange with three doors on the wall. This way we could put french doors or double pocket doors. We'd have 16 feet of half length hanging space (8 feet doubled up), 4 feet of full length hanging space, and 4 feet shelving so we wouldn't actually lose any closet space compared to the old setup and we gain another 5' of floor to ceiling shelving with the new hallway closet. I put the window behind the bed back for the time being :) It's 60x42", 48" off the ground so it should accommodate all but the highest headboards, could even make it 36" high. The other window is 60x60" the room shouldn't have any "basement feeling".

Regarding the kids bedrooms, I don't really see the issue. One is on the smallish side but they're kids, how much room do they need? One room is larger than the other, I don't mind that either, that's almost always the case in any house. The oldest kid gets the biggest room. My biggest issues were the master bedroom which is a more efficient use of space now, and the laundry/mudroom is still a bit wasteful but I'm not sure how to make it any better.

Hi qwibbled,

I threw this together. For many people, the kitchen becomes the hub of
the house. It really doesnt have much to do with overall
distance...because you are right, what is another few feet? My reasoning
is more about flow and usage of the space, and with your current design,
I dont get the feeling that it flows very well. A different design would
give you multiple options, rather than always being limited to one way.

I think that is why so many have posted that it would be nice to have an
entry hallway. From your entry spot, you can then move into multiple
areas easily.

[IMG]http://www.thinkballmarketing.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/sample.png[/IMG]

Fill in #1 with something like this
[IMG]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_3r5VWvQJnmc/SRUt64BrIyI/AAAAAAAAANg/S6xWOoYOKNk/s400/black+entry+hall+tree.jpg[/IMG]

Fill in #2 with something like this
[IMG]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3191/2897568286_ae3bc957d8.jpg?v=0[/IMG]

FWIW, I love having a large window behind the bed. We love the sunshine,
and waking up to it makes our day!
[IMG]http://www.thinkballmarketing.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/img_0231.jpg[/IMG]

Even in our super well insulated 3 year old home with tight new casement windows, our grandkids are warmer during the winter with the foot of their beds under the windows (feet under the warm covers) in the nooks of the rooms where they've chosen to sleep. Cold air falls from the face of the window pane which has an R of 1 or 2, whereas walls, even exterior ones are MANY, MANY times warmer--and interior walls as others have mentioned, are even warmer. In the summer, they switch to having the head of the bed under their windows, because there's no cold air to fall on their uncovered heads and shoulders. Since there's no headboard, it doesn't matter, but with a master bed . . .

Anne

I like how you improved on it. You could now space out the windows evenly since it is almost a square room and avoid having the bed under the window. This way you get light coming in from all directions too.

How much room do kids need? Room for a desk, bed, dresser, and room to play and spread out.

We have a crib, changing table and a chair in my daughters room and stuck a dresser in the closet to save floor space. She now has room to play, but it will become less and less as she grows older with a twin bed, and a desk, and we may have to pull the dresser out of the closet as her clothes sizes grow.

Having the same size will reduce the quibble about the room size and unless they are really far apart in age they'll likely need similar amount of space, so why would you deliberately force the youngest to have less space, when you have the opportunity to have almost the same size rooms.

I'm thinking you could re-work the laundry/mudroom to have the closet/bench part for the entry and have a larger bedroom. To me that would be be a win.

I guess what I'm saying is why settle for a smaller room, when you don't have to.

I don't have time right now, but maybe later I can play with the laundry/mudroom area.

theballs ideas:

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You don't seem too open about suggestions for fixing the laundry room issue, but I'll give my piece or two.

IMHO the laundry room is way too big for this house. Our house is 1750 sq ft and if we had a laundry room that big I'd convert it.

If it were my house (it's not so it's just my personal opinion/advice), I'd move the washer/dryer downstairs into the basement. After that, you can use the storage area/pantry, both closets, and the small area in front of the doorway to the hallway, as a mudroom/vestibule going to your main hallway. It would provide ample room for shoes, coats, etc., and you still wouldn't have to walk through the kitchen, as I know you've said you don't see the appeal in that.

Then, you can use what was the laundry room as a Den, Office, etc. Especially with open floor plans, I think it's important to have a space for the adults to escape to if they feel the need. You could put a couple chairs and a small desk or TV in there for some "alone time". Even with just my partner and I I'm very thankful to have a living room/parlor and a spare bedroom to escape to when I need some breathing room.

That's just my opinion and how I would look at it. I know people feel strongly about having a laundry room on the main floor, but the truth is that in a lot of modern houses, laundry rooms eat up valuable space, especially for medium sized houses such as this. For me going down a flight of stairs to do wash isn't that big a deal if I get some extra usable living space from it.

Just my opinion.

thanks for the advice krycek1984, i'm open to re-arranging the laundry/mudroom area but definitely not open to moving the laundry downstairs. if we need alone time we have our bedroom or the entire basement where there will also be an office. i have a feeling we'll be doing a lot of laundry, i want it as convenient as possible. right now it's not as convenient as possible since it isn't in with the bedrooms but it's a whole lot better than the basement.

suero, it just doesn't work for me sorry, to get to our food we would have to walk through two doors and over the mudroom doormat/shoe area. plus with that door there no one would ever bother walking through the door to the hallway, i just don't see the advantage of having all that traffic go through the kitchen. if my wife is cooking she's not going to want me going through there to get tools from the garage, or the kids coming and going ten times a day, etc.. but i like the photos you posted, thats pretty much what i had in mind for both the laundry and cubbies.

lyfia, please do when you have the time, i liked your first idea :) but honestly the kids rooms not being perfect equal is very very low on my priority list. if i can do it without sacrificing anything, sure, but i haven't been able to work that out. in the smallest room if i put the bed up against the wall/corner, even with a dresser and desk, there's still a 5'x10' open space in the middle of the room. that's plenty. in the original plan at the top those beds are double beds, i forgot to change them to twins which are a lot smaller.

qwibbled, I'm sorry, I didn't realize you would be finishing part of your basement.

To me the set up I described would be the most ideal use of space (except, of course, using what I described as an office/study as the laundry room!). I don't particularly like walking into the laundry room from the garage, I like spaces to be a little more defined. And I'd be depressed to always have all the clothes staring me in the face LOL. That's just me though.

You have a pretty good plan and it seems like the only part you're really struggling with is that area. Just try to think out of the box a little, then think how you will really use it and react to it and do your best :). It is a large area so don't fool yourself into thinking your options are limited, because they are not. We're not talking about a 4x4 area here.

qwibbled:

I can't take credit for the idea. I just posted the pictures so you could see theballs suggestion.

suero

Just so I understand, what do you expect to use the closet for in the entry? How often will the awkward bench area that is in the way of the door be used? Would a smaller decorative one that is free standing be a better option and that is placed further from the door as to not cause a collision?

The closet by the entry is so close to the mudroom that it seems so easy to just put that in there, but maybe I don't understand the usage.

Are you open to changing the layout of the pantry as long as you don't loose shelf space?

The closet in the entry will hold all of our outdoor clothing, shoes, snowpants, coats, jackets, and guest coats. What awkard bench area? There's a bench on the left side of the front door. There's a dresser opposite that bench and the closet, i don't really know what we'd put there i just threw something in from the software, whatever it is it wouldn't obstruct the front door. It would be something for mits, hats, keys, odds and ends, etc. The closet in the mudroom would be a closet for our broom, mop, bucket, cleaning products, vacuum, etc.. and then the cubbies and hooks in the mudroom would just be more space for coats and stuff. I'm open to changing the layout of the pantry so long as it no less inconvenient to use. Thanks!

Some of us question having a large closet in the foyer because that is not where most families enter the house. I'd prefer to see that square footage used for hooks and cubbies in the mudroom. Or, you could also use that space to expand the smaller BR.

I'd reconsider the master bath. The newest plan does not allow enough elbow room for the person using the sink next to the wall. I spend much less time in the shower than I do at the sink; IMO your shower can be smaller (and less work to clean). Would a square shower with a neo-angle door work? If you keep this layout, go back to one sink.

Re: Size of children's BR's. Here in 'The States' our little kids rapidly turn into HUGE teenagers. They have sleep-overs. They have gargantuan piles of homework, hobbies and projects. Girls' bedrooms are awash in stuffed animals, etc. I suspect this is true in Canada too. LOL

I like theball's idea for access to an open pantry from both mudroom and kitchen. (You can go via the foyer to fetch your stuff from the garage. You're not forced to walk through the kitchen.) This plan makes it easier to access the laundry from the kitchen too.

Well there's six feet of cubbies and hooks in the mudroom. We also need a closet somewhere, so it might as well be in the hallway, there's no room for it in the mudroom, we'll still be entering through the front door quite a bit (anytime we don't park in the garage), and it is the entrance guests will use. We need to put the coats somewhere. Having the closet in the hallway and hooks in the mudrooms covers both bases and assures that we won't run out of room.

Regarding the bedrooms, I just don't see the issue sorry. The smallest bedroom is 105sqft which is the same size or bigger than the bedrooms my sisters and i grew up in, all of my friends grew up in, and all of my nieces and nephews are growing up in. As long as there's room to comfortably fit a twin bed, dresser, and a desk I'm happy. I even looked at about 20 1500-1800sqft plans online today and they all had 2nd and 3rd bedrooms in the ~100-120sqft range.

Regarding the master bath, we could just move the sink over and add a couple of inches of counterspace, its not a big deal. A large shower is very important to us while a second sink couldn't be lower on the priority list. Different strokes :)

The problem theballs plan is that to access the pantry we'd have to go through two doors instead of one and walk across all the dirt in the mudroom every time we wanted a can of soup or some potatoes. It just doesn't make sense, and as I've stated many times, I truly do not see the need to have direct access to the kitchen via the mudroom nor do I particularly want traffic coming and going through the heart of the kitchen where the sink and stove are. People will always choose the path of least resistance, put a door there and no one will ever use the hallway door. I doubt we'll get so lazy that walking that extra 10 feet will become an issue.