What gives me the right? You are acting like I did this or agree with it, get real man. All I am saying is that there are usually two sides to a story and we only have one side. She was growing food in her front yard, in most places you cant have vegetables gardens in your front yard and that is a huge issue in America. Personally, I think you should be able to grow your OWN food in your front yard, so long as its in touch with the landscape design of the area and not decreasing the area in property value. Why do you slap a label on me so easily, I don't have entitlement issues, obviously you want to press this. Like I am against this lady and for the city, or that I am some greedy man that is only interested $. I just think more people need not believe everything they read right off the bat or see on the TV. If this lady has a case it should go to court and she should receive more than adequate compensation for her losses and legal fees. What gives you the right to restrict someone from growing their own food in their yard? Nothing, its not my city nor do I agree with it. Why does your belief in some kind of entitlement to higher property values supersede their utility/use of their yard for growing food? She still has a backyard, side beds, and could have used the front yard, you can still grow edibles and have them look really good in a front yard without decreasing property value, I don't think she did anything to decrese property value "but also don't feel like I could say for sure", but I didn't see much of a before and after picture of the front bed and am assuming thats the bed that they used as justification to cut the yard, don't know where she lives, don't know if it was just a quick notice and then cut, or 10 notices, don't know if the beds were not 5 foot high and overrun with mice etc. There also could have been a history we don't know about, did she do something to "challenge the city" was the city getting even? Do you know everything? For all I know the pictures could have been from 3 years ago. You would think the city would have a reason for cutting it and not being total idiots, that is all I am saying. Don't be so quick to label me as greedy or a lawn monger.

yes joel, quiet a shift you pretty much have it one mate, yes a shift in lifestyle to a degree definately a shift in location, but not a shift in the philosophies i aspire. yes i will in all aspects adhere to what i suggest recommend to others, no i can't change the mcmansion manicured lawn set, yes the lawn on our place won't look that manicured it won't get any watering from us nor will it get any other man made or chemical application. as we are on a corner block the footpath represents app' the same area of available lawn space, so we will be planting the footpath with habitat trees as mauch as we can, that will minimise that grass area to a small degree, however there will not be much lawn in the yard, the yard will be utilised for those supplementry type activities (i find terms like sustainability and self-sufficiency don't carry any attributes to attract the masses it is like "tooth fairy" stuff isn't it, and sad to say with the undercurrent of making dollars in the permy' sector that word to is now being rejected by the lack of following building in the simple terms of it). so we need vege' gardens and as much room as possible for food trees as well as some of the more exotic natives especially to create atmosphere around the pool/patio area, where we will pretty much live in the summer time. at present (this could be modified) we are wanting to put in two 5,400 (24,500 ltr) imp' gallon water tanks, they will take up app' 14.2 sq/mtrs of space. the tank size could yet be settled back to the 3,200 imp' gal' (14,300 ltr) size, city administrators think that a tank in a garden looks uglier than most garden sheds but you can put as large a free standing garden shed as you like where you like, not so when it comes to water conservation, silly hey?? but yes i am still very much critical of what we humans are doing in the name of providing accomodation, in these new suburbs now the ruling bird is the crow (in my opinion not native but so out of control the officials don't want to deal with it) and the indian myna(h) ferel. so we have new generations of children who if they don't get to go to an expensive tourist attracting nature park/zoo/circus will never know that we have more birds than the 2 afore mentioned species winging our skies. where we are is close to some nature reserve so at least i can attract some of a small variety of resident good birds. there are no frogs but we can change that. still after spending many months living in a newer sub-division than that where we currently are there is no likleyhood that i can see of this mythical but wonderful shed-culture that existed in the 'burb's way back in the 40's & 50's and in rural up to about the 80's, but i would welcome it with open arms. and as our 2 car garage will be converted to a games room for the pool table and an area for tall tales and fishing stories we may well attract some of the neigbourhood hey? of course in today's world of litigation they will have to sign a waver won't they?? one neighbour has come over and introduced himself as i will when i catch site of other neighbours in their gardens, certainly want to be friendly at least. and our quicky vege' garden has already been a trail blazer though it hasn't attracted any looks from neighbours so far. and where the yuppy standard for water conservation is a tank of less than 1,000 litre capacity (no enough to brush your teeth with hey chuckle) our tank(s) will reset the goal posts. please excuse the typo's len

...and finally, a few terse paragraphs about the design and the thinking behind it. (I hadda write it up because an acquaintance insisted that I enter it in a garden contest, even though we're only half finished with the garden.) ===== Before the design process began we examined many types of traditional designs, including French box gardens, English cottage gardens and Renaissance gardens from around the world. We have incorporated many aspects of these traditional ideas into our edible landscape. In our opinion we have successfully captured the feel of meditation gardens, as well. When fully mature, the plantings in our landscape will be 'bio-intensive', as is often seen in traditional European and English cottage gardens. Our primary goal is to transform every square inch of the front yard into an edible landscape. In time, the sod will be replaced with edible ground covers. Other than concerns for soil compatibility and allowances for available sunlight, we are planting annual herbs and vegetables in concert with all of the edible perennials. The nutrients provided by each edible plant have been taken into consideration in the planning of this project. As a result of the design and installation, the result will be as maintenance free as is possible while remaining within our budgetary constraints. The overall design includes a labyrinth, which is more complex than it might seem at first glance. We have also incorporated a simplified rectangular mandala. A Celtic Cross, or Solar Cross, can be also be seen in the layout of the pathway. Some have asked why we chose persimmons as the centerpiece instead of the more traditional water feature. Persimmons are known as the 'food of the gods'. This concept fits with the imagery of the solar and Celtic cross(es) and reflects the overall themes and histories of labyrinths and mandalas. The longest part of the pathway lines up almost directly east/west, and conjoins with the autumnal equinox. That was a matter of happenstance, rather than planning, but it is incorporated into the design. These concepts were part of the original design and remained a part of every consideration during the process. Philosophically? (Offered as questions, of course.) Why do the green-ways in the garden narrow around the tree beds? Why did we bother with all of the straight lines, when the garden will be so 'bio-intensive' at maturity? Many of the mature plants will -eventually- constrain the walk through the garden, making it necessary to dodge branches and step around plantings as you 'dance the labyrinth' of this project. Why did we design it that way? How will the rise and fall (remember the grade and level mentioned above) of your path through the garden also reveal your path through life? In the design of this landscape, the ground is neither flat nor level. The four outer edges of the garden do allow enough grade to maintain the original drainage on the property. Each of the four 'rooms' of the garden tilts towards the center. This aspect of the design will hold and retain water and prevent excessive run-off during the region's normal rain showers. The plans include eight raised beds which provide five hundred square feet of space for 'square foot' vegetable gardening. The boxes around the raised beds will be leveled and plumbed. The shorter raised beds (fourteen feet in length) are each on the same level. The four beds that are twenty-two feet in length will sit approximately three inches lower than the shorter beds. In this fashion, by using straight lines and manipulating the grade and level, the space has become a three dimensional geometric sculpture. We kept the traditional circular tree beds in order to provide relief from (and contrast with) the straight lines. The major plantings will add contrast and beauty to that geometric sculpture with their naturally occurring 'fractal' growth habits. Although the fruit trees will be pruned and shaped, they, too, will form a component of this fractal contrast and beauty. We are pruning our young fruit trees using a combination of vase shape and espalier techniques. The exception will be the persimmon trees which will be maintained in a semi-open shape. We have double planted our fruit trees in order to provide a greater variety of fruits, vitamins and minerals in our diet. Double planting ensures cross pollination and offers more and better fruit than might otherwise be found in such a small space. The competition for resources will help to further reduce the size of the trees when they reach maturity. Budget and other considerations: This particular design is not a project for a novice gardener. We recommend that a novice utilize the services of a professional gardener and/or a landscape designer to achieve an edible landscape of this complexity. Thus far, we've invested $2,300 over two years. With our current budget and schedule, we plan to spend an additional $1,500 to $2,000 over the next two years. Costs include soil amendments, compost, peat moss, edging, stakes, sand, mulch, plants and seeds. In keeping with the idea of not breaking too many shoestrings, we provided our own labor and we used nothing but hand tools to implement this project. Most of the one thousand flower bulbs installed in the beds around the property lines were gifts. We saved money on the gravel for the walkways by re-grading and leveling the driveway, which was considerably above grade when we bought this property. We've used two tons of homemade compost in our beds, saving even more on our installation. ROI? Last year we filled two freezers with fresh fruits and vegetables and had dozens of meals of fresh produce from our garden. In short, over the last year and a half, the garden has returned our current investment. In addition, in a few short years, this garden will be valued at several tens of thousands of dollars. Increasing the equity in our homes seemed like a good idea when we began to plan and install our Formally, Informal English Garden. In view of the quick return on our investment, it seems like an even better idea, today. ===== Oh, yeah...pics... I call this series "fractals vs geometry."

Nice photo. Yeah, we have a ton of black widow and recluse's. I haven't been bitten, but a friend's son got bitten by a recluse years ago, he almost died, spent days in the hospital. I don't kill spiders, not even in the house, but sorry guys, I will kill the poisonous ones, I don't need myself or my dogs bitten. my SIL threatened to kill one of my zipper spiders that made a web on the pergola (no where near her), I informed her she would NOT kill my spider, just keep your fat a** away from her. ;-) Pam