miele's entry level units dont have softeners.

almost none of the Bosch USA model have softeners, only one model does - two if you count the model in the 18" size.

mile's are a bit different in install , but they DO NOT require or recommend a GFCI outlet. In fact it might be worse to have one. You may consider installing an outlet with surge supression to protect the electronic board, but GFCI is silly. Miele's are 60cm wide so if you are replacing a 24" unit there will be space on either side that most people wantfilled. Miele has compensation strips but most people aren't thrilled with em. They have to e ordered from dealer.

$300 is fairly excessive for Miele DW install unless you are in NYC, SanFran or a very remote area. $200 should easily cover it with a nice profit.

The Bosch 800 Plus series (Integra & Evolution) have the water softener right?

KA has been owned by Whirlpool for quite a while now. Why is that scary? Whirlpool and KA are quite functional, reliable appliances. My 8 year KA DW and fridge are going strong as are my 29 year old Whirlpool fridge, washer and dryer!

We had a Miele Diamante installed 3 months ago. It has a water softener since we don't have a whole-home softener. It can be turned off however, if you do have a home softener. The bottom Inspira model does not come with a water softener and is the least expensive. The benefit of soft water for the dishwasher is that it helps the detergent clean better and doesn't leave residue or spots on the washed items.

Our delivery and installation was $149 and was done through a certified installer, which extends the 1-year manufacture warranty to 2 years. I watched them put it in, and it was pretty simple and straight forward, done in about 30-40 min. The electrical plug was connected to a standard 15W plug under the sink, but it is on its own circuit breaker line. There was another dealer in my area that wanted to charge $250 for the installation, so it's best to shop around. $300 is way more than I would pay for a dishwasher installation. Tell them that if there is a current 15W outlet, they don't need to install a new one.

Even though we have a total of 2 years on the warranty, we're still planing to buy the 4-year Miele extended warranty for $250. But that 4 year period starts after the original 1 year warranty ends, not after the "free" 2nd year warranty. So for the 2nd year, there would technically be two warranties running in parallel. Then the 3rd-5th year would just be the extended warranty.

Just stay away from Whirlpool dishwashers. A friend of mine has gone through two of them in the past 5 years. He says when this one goes, he's getting a Miele like mine.

We do have a standard 24" space now, so you're saying there will be a gap between? I don't know if that will look good. Anyone have any pictures of their Miele installed with the compensation strips? I checked and we have a circuit breaker dedicated solely to the dishwasher. No idea what kind of plug is there though. I too thought a GFCI outlet was overkill and I am not willing to pay $299 on an install. Perhaps if the price is not negotiable, the delivery charge will be?

It was between Miele and KA. KA won out because we got such a fabulous deal on it. It also had the cultery tray which I must say, I will NEVER buy another dishwasher without one.

KA has really surprised me because it is quiet, maybe not as quiet as a Miele. However, I live in Canada, and everything is a bit more expensive, esp. for Miele. Plus the additional warranty and install by Miele pro was a con for us.

From what I can see Bosch has 5 different models with the built-in water softner and I think 3 or 4 of the models come this the 3rd cutlery tray at the top. These are the machines that are built in Germany.
With as bad as the detergent is after the phosphates have been removed dishwashers with water softners seem to be working better than those that don't have them.

Bosch also make a Thermador model with a water softner and built in interior lights.

I have a whole house water softener, but I still purchased a Miele dishwasher with built in softener. A whole house softener is great, but you can always end up with some hard water on some days and generally its the day you placed all your lovely crystal into the dishwasher. I know..its happened to me! All that lovely crystal ended up in the garbage since it was totally ruined. The Miele's you set for your water hardness and so if that day you have lovely soft water, the dishwasher knows and does not use its own softner. I use 2 boxes of salt in a year. The purchase of this dishwasher has given me piece of mind, plus the most sparkling dishes you've ever seen. They literally sparkle!

We installed the dishwasher ourselves. We have a surge suppression outlet for it. We had to build our own 'dishwasher kit'. Miele's are not standard plumbing sizes as compared to the North American dishwashers. The hoses connect to a 3/4 inch adapter instead of the 1/2 inch N.A. standard. We went to Home Depot and the plumbing guys showed us what we needed. It was very inexpensive. As for the standard cabinet opening, yes, the Mieles are narrower and thus you have a space. We just filled in the side with extra lumber, installed the dishwasher and then applied a matching strip to the outer cupboards. It took a couple of extra days to install only because we didn't know ahead of time the plumbing issue nor the cabinet issue.

This dishwasher is worth every penny.

bobbi1023,

Can you please post a picture of what you did "We just filled in the side with extra lumber, installed the dishwasher and then applied a matching strip to the outer cupboards."
My cabinets have a standard 24" opening for a dishwasher, we first had a GE Profile, then an Elextrolux, and now Miele Diamante. The Miele is a tad narrower, but the gray rubber gasket strips that come pre-installed on the top & sides have filled any gaps.

Just got rid of a very disappointing LG 7811 and replaced it with a KUDE70CVSS. Our teenage daughter barely scrapes the dishes but I have yet to find anything in the filter. We really like not having the food grinder.

I have a new Bosch and one of my requirements, when I was
looking for a dishwasher was the sound factor. The print
literature on my Bosch says that it is "virtually silent."
Mine is anything but that. Bosch sent two different service
guys to my house and they both told me that my machine
is noisy, but I have to accept it, because Bosch will do
nothing about it, and they won't. I know a lot of owners of
older Bosch machines rave about how quiet they are, but
the newer machines are not. Buy the Miele.

Rayrose, What model Bosch did you buy?
They have several levels of quietness and the decibel ratings are all listed on their website. I know I've had customers who have looked at the quietest Bosch rated at 42 db but ended up buying a less expensive model that may be rated at 54 db and there is a big difference between the 2.
54 db is quiet and quieter than most other dishwashers on the market but a $400 dishwasher is not as quiet as a $2000 one.
One thing you may want to check is does your d/w seal against the sides of the cabinet that it's in. A lot of noise can escape if the sides have gaps between the d/w and cabinet. I think this is mentioned in the install guide.

I have the SHE55M05UC, and I had it installed, then
uninstalled, then reinstalled at the insistance of Bosch.
There are no gaps around my machine. It's as tight as you
can get it. The first Bosch service rep actually told me
that I should wrap my machine in insulation, in order to
make it quiet. Heck, the machine is already wrapped in
insulation. What a jerk. I regret buying this expensive
piece of crap.

The SHE55M is their middle of the road model. They are quiet (47db) but you can hear them run. Bosch has 2 or 3 more quiet levels lower than the one you have.
The unit I have is a 48db unit and I do hear it but it's far from what I would say is loud.
The 800+ units are extremely quiet but if have my ear right next to them you can hear them but in most cases I've seen they are quieter than the refrigerator in the same kitchen. Some have a light that shines on the floor to let the user know its running.
I'm not your tech visiting your home but it could be the noise you are hearing is normal for your unit but your expectations of noise level exceed what the unit is rated for. I've seen salesmen "over sell" a Bosch on their quietness and when the customer buys a step down model they think it should be quieter.
THe only way to really tell is with a db meter but those tend to be expensive pieces of equipment and a servicer isn't likely to buy one.

There used to be a thread that talked about DB levels and the quiet level expectations of each rating but that was several years ago.

Most all dishwashers that I've seen and used have the insulation wrap around the sides and top that you can see when the dishwasher is not installed into the cabinet. But with Miele, they have the insulation enclosed into it's own metal frame, so you don't see it at all. When my Miele Diamante was installed, it was the first dishwasher that I had seen that has an real metal enclosure around all the sides/top/back. To me, that is quality you won't find on any other brand that I know of.

Pulled the trigger today and got the Miele Diamante Plus G2183SCSF. Got install for $175 which is much better than the other place that quoted me $300! Can't wait to get it. I can say I am a little disappointed that with the hidden controls you lose the Turbo wash & delayed start that come with the G2143SC in the same line. The hidden controls were just too appealing to me. Thank you all for all your input. When it came down to it, I think others came close to the Miele but it seems to just stand in a class of it's own.

Congradulations on your decision, Hope it works out great for you! We've had the Miele Optima for 4 years and like it, especially the cutlery tray. We like the short cycle on it too, as it is more than enough to clean the dishes.

We had a KA before with the hidden controls, wasnt particularly crazy about them, couldnt read without glasses, and we wanted the Miele panelled as the SS on that KA was a real pain to keep clean and spotless, so we ordered the "Semi- integrated Miele and we really like it. We can look at the display and tell "what its upta".

Additionally I saved money as I did not have to purchase one of those fancy Neon signs that say "This way to Miele"
as ours shows the name on its front panel!!!

Just Kiddin!!

We hope you enjoy yours and serves you as well as ours has, for 4 years + now!!!

Gary

gavavemom,

I too could not figure out why the Diamante G2183 loses the Turbo and Delay Start with LED with the fully integrated model, as it cost $150 more than the G2143. But both Optimas G2472 and G2432 have it. Weird.
Glad you were able to find another retailer that had a better price on the installation.

Suggested dishwashing detergent? I am just becoming aware of the no-phosphate situation. Is there a particular brand that is recommended with the Miele's?

For Detergent and Rinse Aid suggestion, read my last post here:
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/appl/msg0801273817865.html?15

Here is a link that might be useful: http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/appl/msg0801273817865.html?15

Miele comes standard with a built in water softener but you dont have to add salt if you dont want to. The Bosch is a great unit very quiet but nothing compares to the quality of a Miele. They make the best dishwashers on the market. The seperate cutlery rack tales some getting used to but gets the silverware cleaner than any other unit on the market.

http://www.plessers.com/Miele/g1182scvi.htm

Diamante Plus installed yesterday and I must say I am impressed, at least initially. Dishes were spotless with all default settings. A couple of questions at this time. With the hidden controls, do you actually have to power off the dishwasher, or will it turn off after a certain period of time? The installer suggested we try it without adding an water softener salt initally. Our water hardness is 10pbm, so not all that bad, but enough to not make our glasses perfect. Also, the installer did not install the heatshield. My husband told him that eventually we will be replacing our cabinetry & formica countertops but I am wondering if that was a mistake given we don't quite know when we will be doing the renovation. We know if do want to do one in the future though. I was so impressed with how quiet it is. It trumps the builder grade GE that we just got rid of by a mile!

Not all of the 800 series come with H2O softeners.

I had to look this up, and it has changed since last season, but Bosch now offers 5-6 models with the built in softener. Last year it was only one model, two if you count the 18" version. It seems to have trickled down the lineup now.

Anyway, I am no longer rec. these units because of direction the USA division is steering things. You're just not credible when your sales weasels try to tell me your $400 dishwasher is as good as the $2000 one only it has less features. Please!

Rayrose,

Thanks for your post. We have a similar model except it is a 45 and I can't believe how noisy it is. At first it was fairly quiet and we could watch tv in the other half of the room. Not any more. I run it during the day when I am not around. We have tried different detergents and different loading procedures with no real change. I would have loved to get a Miele but I guess that will be our next one instead.

The answer doesn't depend only on how well a product works for a particular user, but also on how well the manufacturer stands behind the product if you happen to have trouble. I don't know what the answer to that is, but here is a posting at another site concerning things made by Whirlpool. It seemed to be typical at that site.
http://www.applianceblog.com/mainforums/whirlpool-reviews/11144-kitchenaid-executives-do-not-stand-behind-products.html