You could always buy a roaster/oven if you ever need something that will hold a larger turkey.

Here is a link that might be useful: Nesco roaster

We have both the Miele Speed Oven, and the full size 30" (big) Miele Oven.

99% of the time we use the Speed Oven. The Microwave works flawlessly, the true convenction oven works flawlessly and you can do combo bake with both microwave and oven (fast cooking), broil, set favourites, delay start...

It will not hold big cookies sheets, but I do bake cookies in it. I roast chickens, bake lasagna, roast veggies, casseroles, etc, etc.

While I do use the Big Miele oven 1-2x a month, if I had to choose just one...in a NY minute I would personally choose my Miele Speed Oven over the Big oven. I LOVE it!!!!!

Thrilled to hear from you both!
Looking like I may well get the Miele speed. Which seems like a real extravagance, but if it lasts, and works for all of these functions, then it may be worth the extra cash.
Anyone think this is a poor choice?

Yes, I could totally be happy with a 24" oven. Personally, I would love one of the competent little 24" ovens.

However, a combination of budget and the resale bogey will probably force me into a boring unnecessarily large range instead. Sigh. (In my case it's not only the added cost of going separate, but the cost of upgrading electric all the way from the main road.)

But yes, I think this is a great choice, especially if you live in an area where future potential buyers would be younger people who aren't busy fantasizing about cooking for 30 at Thanksgiving, even though they always eat out then.

(In my area nobody would know what the Miele is.)

I don't know about the speed ovens, but I haven't needed anything larger than a 27", and MAYBE I could get by with a 24" oven.

(I just moved leaving my cheap but excellent 27". Now I have a range oven and a 24" oven which preheats so quickly. But I need new pans--only my old Corningware fits it. My FOOD fits just fine though!)

From what you originally said in Kitchens I had thought you meant no oven at all. In regards to that discussion, I think the Miele speed oven should be adequate for any oven needs, which you've said are minimal, and should qualify as "an oven" if you need one for a CO.

In regards to what Davidro1 said, I am one of the millions who use a 30" oven regularly. Just this past week I've made three things in it that were beyond either of my smaller ovens. I do agree, though, that unless you're flipping the house, or you live in a development with nearly identical houses that yours will be compared to at resale (even if you're not planning to move, it's important to plan for sudden changes and emergencies), a big oven isn't necessary if you don't have use for it.

The "turkey" thing, however, is something of a misdirect. It's a shorthand those of us who cook for crowds regularly use to represent the cooking that doesn't fit in a small oven. You can always make turkey parts if you don't have room in your oven for a whole big bird. It'll cook faster that way too. It's not the turkey itself. It's the capacity.

This is an issue close to my heart. I just did a $35,000 kitchen makeover and installed one...that's right...one 27" oven. I don't bake often, and when I do, I bake one cake at a time. Maybe 12 muffins. Or a 14 lb. turkey. I heat up pizza. I think the trend to big or double ovens when about 50% of those who buy them or insist any house they buy has them rarely if ever use both at the same time. It's like a status symbol. I have a Cuisinart toaster oven which I use a lot for baking. Heats up in 1/5th time as an oven. Now if you bake a lot, that's different.

Thank you so much GW people! I am also considering a small wall oven and a larger range so I, hopefully, all needs will be met over a year of cooking for crowds to one person.

The idea that people are buying GE Appliances or Whirlpool double ovens as status symbols is rediculous.

I currenty have a Oster Toaster oven and 30" gas oven. Three or four times a week I will have bread baking at one temp,main dish at another temp, and a side dish at a third.

Most of our moms made due with one oven by selecting a compromise temperature and stuffing one oven. I don't like doing that becuase most things don't come out just right. Buying a single 30" or 36" Wolf range is far more typical of the status symbol kitchen.

In my new Kitchen I will have a 24" electric Gagg,36" gas Culinarian oven, plus a Viking 27" warming oven. I purchased the warming oven for $260 so worst case scenario I have a nice metal drawer.

My Gagg has super efficient insulation and can be turned off the last 10 minutes of cooking and maintain temperature.As a result of that insulation it heats up just as quickly and uses as much energy as your typical toaster oven. Much much more even heat and much larger capacity among other benefits.

The toaster oven is hotter on the left side by 50 degrees and the temp is constantly rising so I have to keep an eye on it and lower the dial. Sometimes I overshoot and need to raise it.

The idea that multiple ovens are unused or unnecessary is just plain silly. Sure there are those people that buy more than they will use but that does not represent the majority.

I just made the same call. I just got a 24" Gagg combi/ steam and will get a microwave+ like Miele or advantium. My kitchen space is a premium and I need appliances to do more.. I will however note that we mainly cook vegetarian dishes and bake desserts. I wanted a precise oven that will turn out madelines and tarts beautifully in convection mode. And I am so looking forward to all that I can do with the steam options. My budget just went a bit further..

I've long thought about doing this - ditching the big oven and using the oven capabilities of a built-in GE Advantium whenever an oven is needed. The built-in/wall-oven versions are pretty big inside and have 2 or 3 shelves (the over-the-cooktop version is shallower since it must fit amongst 12" deep cabinets instead of 24").

From what I gather the thermal ovens are similar on the 120v and 240v versions, although the speed oven function is vastly better on the 240 (which has access to 4x as much wattage since it also runs on 30 amps rather than 15), and the microwave slightly more powerful.

I did get a 30 inch range and have used the oven only once since April, to try out the broiler. I have no doubt that I could satisfy all my oven cooking needs with the combination of my Miele Chef speed oven and the Breville counter convection oven. (also have a toaster). The few times that I do larger or messy things like a duck I would used the Green Egg outside -- would rather do that even in cold weather than muck up the oven.

I would used the Green Egg outside -- would rather do that even in cold weather than muck up the oven.

Well, that is one way to keep the bluestar oven door from freezing. j/k

You don't use your oven so you won't get it dirty?

So you bought a BS range instead of rangetop so you can just look at your custom painted oven door?

Resale, resale, resale.
Sigh.
No, I do not plan on moving any time soon. However aware that one never knows what the future holds.
I really want the small oven.
Solution may be what someone suggested to my related post about kitchen layout in the kitchens forum: put drawers in the cabinet under the induction cooktop. Space for future homeowner to add her own oven if she needs the greater baking/roasting capacity.
I have no doubt that some do! If my cooking and entertaining skills expand, perhaps it will be I who puts another oven in!
I love "listening" in on the conversations here. So fun and helpful!

No, I couldn't live without a decent sized oven. And I would have to think long and hard about buying a house without one. I'd have to remodel somehow to get one....or even two. One of the main priorities for my new kitchen (in progress) is to get two ovens. Dinner last night would have been so much better, easier and faster with two ovens!

Just to clarify. I think that having double ovens is seen as a status symbol to some people. Not all people. And I did say that if you bake/roast alot (and that would probably include anyone with a large family).....that's different. But spending thousands and giving up space for something you don't have a real need for sure seems unecessary and wasteful to me. IMHO

My Miele 24 inch Speed oven can bake 2 trays of perfectly even cookies. If you buy another rack, you can bake 3 sheets of cookies. I also have a 30 inch gas range as well because I have a pretty big kitchen by city standards. I find that the capacity in the Miele is not limiting for me as was the case for others that have already spoke up.

My Dh's cousin in Europe only has the Miele speed oven, and it works fine for her family. Her kitchen is not small by European standard. My estimate for her house is about 2500 to 3000 sq ft, huge by Euro standard. She has standard size DW, 30" induction, 30" frig/freezer, wall of cabinet pantry etc.

Having said that, I do not think Miele broils well enough for me to not have another source of "excellent" broiling... This is a functional issue. I have an infrared BBQ and infrare gas broiler in the gas oven. I use both my infrared BBQ and infrared broiler alot. If I did not have that, I would have to change my cooking style to work with what I don't have. I would be doing the stove top steak with preheated cast iron since broiling in the Miele would turn the meat into grey mush. We also bake home made pizzas in our gas oven and it takes 7 to 8 minutes for thin crispy crust pizza. There is no way my Miele will have that kind of heat capacity.

I would have the same broiling/pizza issues if I had an el-cheapo huge oven. When I did not even know what an infrared broiler was nor have a BBQ, I put together perfectly good meals. You learn to work with what you have....

Miele is a very accurate oven but it is not a high heat capacity oven. For 90% of what you do, Miele will be adequate.

I cook alot. In response to what Breezy has said if I bought a house with 2 "standard" ovens, I would be replacing one with an ultra high heat capacity oven that I could bake pizzas and broil steaks and the other with a multifucntional ovens such as a Speed oven. 2 standard ovens would not be adequate for me... What I am trying to say is that each person will have a very specific needs that may have nothing to do with your paritcular situation.

Mostly, if you are this limited for space in the kitchen, then this house is probably not big enough to be a family house. So your market will not be a typical family... What I am trying to say is that each person has his/her needs. Don't get swayed by what others need. Go with what you and your house wants/needs.

when installing a wall oven, if you add heat refractive material around the sides you will improve its performance.

i have a 24" wall oven with drywall on one side and a chipboard (OSB) panel on the other side. It cooks more on that side. Slightly. But visibly. One day I will slide the oven out and put something slim and heat reflective on the sides. Sheet metal and leftover porcelain tiles.

This idea is not new and not mine alone. I have been told to do this by people who are in the business of kitchen renovations.

f.y.i.

Interesting idea! Would you do it on all the 5 sides surrounding the oven?

kaismom, I appreciate your post which I found interesting because you highlighted that it's not just he capacity, it's what they can do. You're right about that -- the Miele is just not a fabulous broiler, and the Blue Star is. The Miele is great because it combines a lot of functional alternatives in a small space. I use the microwave to soften a quart of gooseberries with tapioca and sugar, and then I put that in a pie shell and finish baking in the Breville countertop oven. Then I microwave a second batch and then finish that second pie in the Miele on convection bake. Never went near the Blue Star. But if I have even one little steak for just the two of us, I turn on the big 30 inch oven broiler. It's function, not size. Thanks Kaismom.

A 24" oven is big enough for just about anything -- unless you like to cook a chicken, a turkey, a casserole, and a tray of cookies at the same time. Trust me: I've roasted 20+ pound turkeys in my 20" oven. (Yes, I have a 20" stove. I live in a small NYC apartment.)

All the fuss over large ovens make me roll my eyes. Larger ovens are no taller or deeper than small ones. In fact, they would have to be at least 36" wide to accommodate side-by-side baking sheets, so what's the difference? Even the stovetop burners on my 20" unit are the same size as those on larger stoves. You'd think the whiners on those House Hunter shows must have gigantic 2-foot wide cookware. I suspect that they never cook and have no idea what they're talking about.

When it comes to ovens: Size doesn't matter.

this proves my point. A 24" oven is big enough.

Rollicking laughter here. A small oven is big enough for those in small homes because they can't seat large groups anyway.

For the OP, a small oven should be fine. I can get a lot out of my smallest oven (18"x12" x8"h usable space). I could feed four people with only that. No way I could feed my whole family (minimum two dozen) that way!! No way I could make a week's worth of kale chips that way either, unless I were willing to devote double or triple the time to the project.

In a good sized suburban house, I think having a space that can accommodate 30" double ovens, even if it's used as a pantry, is a good idea if there's any issue of the price or speed of resale in an emergency. For all that many people don't use ovens at all, there are a lot of people who have weekly get togethers, where their double ovens are given good workouts, even if it's just for make-and-bake pizza, and Costco appetizers. Those people, and those who aspire to be those people, are the "whiners" who complain about the Easy Bake oven. Those, and the chef on a recent HGTV show who bought the place with the small Gaggenau oven and changed it out for a bigger one that might have been an Elux.

I'm going for the Miele 24" speed oven and either a range or cooktop with a 24" wall oven, for the rare times I want to bake a sponge cake or cook a standing rib roast.

With respect to resale, I think it depends upon your abode and the neighborhood. What a suburban house "requires" versus a city apartment...those are really different things, and have different buyers.

Hi everyone, Just thought I would give my opinion. I have a small 24 inch. I am a big baker. I make large turkeys several times a year. I can all my own veggies, perserves.I have dinner parties a couple times a month all on my mini. I Love it so much that we are going to remodel and put in a new stainless steel one.I think we in the usa think bigger is better. I lived in germany for many years and 24 inch is the standard. I hear they have more even heating also.

We just went with a 36" range and a second 30" wall oven. Wew previously had 2 wall ovens a 27" and a 30". Do we use both on a regular basis - no. But we do use them often especially when have family over and baking. Like the luxury of being able to do main dish in one and sides in the other especially when in large dishes. Plus as someone mentioned resale is a plus.

Glad to see your post sskit. We are doing a major remodel. Will have a 36" gas range, 30" electric wall oven with a microwave above. I cook quite a bit, so the two ovens will get used more than holidays. Plus I think it's good for resale.

If anyone bakes a lot, the test is to see if a 1/2 size or full size commercial sheet pan will fit inside.

Jennybog--I have a 23" (old) oven and after many years of the turkey still being a bit raw on the inside and needing a shot in the microwave, I would dearly like to know how you cook your turkeys! I try to use a neighbor's who is away for the day and doesn't mind my using her oven.

Not sure what you are comparing, but my kitchen has two small (24") wall ovens. I have a cooktop and not a range. I am able to bake just about anything I want in the oven. I haven't done a turkey larger than about 15 pounds and that's probably the largest thing. More important to me is having double ovens so that I can cook things in parallel instead of serially. Not sure what the point of a large oven is. It's much more valuable to have two if you can. If you can't, 24" is fine.

We have a Lacanche cluny with two small ovens. You can get a half sheet pan in them the long way. We do a small turkey a few times a year (12-15#, again they go in the long way. I agree with dimitrig, two ovens is way better.

We have a friend with large ovens and the stuff she bakes always looks so alone in those cavernous things.