Still lost...it was " I also wanted to see the thing and with Fivestar that was very difficult."

I agree that the FS site is confusing.

It seems we may have exhausted the Wolf vs Bluestar comparison at least for now. I think the only comparison not made b/t Wolf and BS at this point is how many screws per pound of range each uses.

Again, a good and thorough thread though and some great insights on some other units and points as well!

It's not the screws per pound that matter but the threads per inch, pitch diameter and tinsel strength. Wolf uses a 6-32 machine screw which is standard for the industry. Bluestar uses an upgraded 8-32 which nearly doubles the stress area (square inches).

;-)

When I was searching for a range the 30" Wolf AG $4,995, 30" Viking AG $5,399 and I got the BS RCS for $1,995. Albeit its not BS top of the line, but it has the same if not better burner specs as the other 2.

I looked at it very simply, its a big piece of metal with some gas pipes. The same gas goes in them all and a flame comes out to cook the food, its not rocket science. If price was no object I probably would have gone with the Wolf, but I do have to say I'm very happy with the BS, and will buy another one if I move.

I do have one issue with the BS, the oven runs very hot on the outside, it appears they are not completely insulated on all four sides of the door, just three. In this hot weather, it is a bit of a nuisance having the house heat up an extra 10-20 degrees when the oven is on for long periods of time. But hey, it'll help heat the house in the winter!

jr_chef,
FWIW,I'm with you, it isn't rocket surgery.
I've drooled over the Wolf range tops for years.
Viking, meh.
The BlueStar just seemed right to me.
Big ass, cast iron star burner like my old neighbor's Garland. No frills, just knobs, burners and a SS case to hide the guts.
My 36" range top is sitting on a pallet in my living room waiting to be installed.
BTW, I checked out the knobs are they are smooth and solid feeling.
As far as I'm concerned, if I can't turn out a good meal on this thing, I'm hopeless.

Breezy 2, Ok got it, I could not find a local Fivestar dealer in Chicago so I could look at one.

"When I was searching for a range the 30" Wolf AG $4,995, 30" Viking AG $5,399 and I got the BS RCS for $1,995."

When you compare the BS 30" RNB which actually has the 22k burner and the is the primary reason most seem to choose BS the on line price is $4600. If you compare the Viking with out the self cleaning oven or DF but with open burners in AG you can find it on line for $3600.

http://bluestar.mwrc.net/en/product.php?product_id=24005

jeffreyem, Were you able to see a BS or did you buy on faith? My understanding is that a distributor went out of business in your area and this has impacted the availabilty for some brands in Chicago. Either way I see a bit of a difference between a cooktop and a 48" range especially in the financial commitment.

Here is a link that might be useful: Viking 30

I was able to see a Bluestar, I bought it from Plass, but the Unit I saw was at Trage, Couldn't find a Five Star anywhere. Purchase the Independent hood Direct, saved about $500.

cdave - By going to the cheapest place to price the Viking and the most expensive place to price the Bluestar, you are comparing apples to oranges. Better to look somewhere that sells them both. At AJ Madison, for instance, the two are exactly the same price - $3939

Having purchased both, I just checked my bills. Wolf 30" AG $4999, Bluestar RNB 30" $3999. Those are Canadian dollars and that's a HUGE difference.

Poor Mark g He is new to this and didn't know what a box he opened when asking to compare the two ranges :) (why don't we throw in a few others to confuse him) I got the Blue Star 36" in cranberry Red and I love it. Fit finish and performance! I have never cooked on a better stove in my home or elsewhere. The clean up is good too. the color selection made such a wonderful statement!
just my 2 cents!

All my friends were remodeling their kitchens, who had the Wolf, who had the Viking. The prices for these were very high and personally, I was not impressed. I walked into a kitchen to see the cabinets, the reason for me to go to this person's house, and made a "b" line to the range and there it was a red Blue Star. I had never heard of it and asked her, this range was crazy money and she said it was cheaper than the Wolf/Viking. Well, after dreaming of this range, I bought one in a color(burgundy) Everyone loves it. Oh, it it works like a charm!!! It is a little ballsy to get a color but I did it and I am so glad I did. Remember 190 colors to choose!!!!

Ya Think, I agree but why wouldn't I consider the best price? If the BS is 4k then the Viking at the store I listed (which has very good feedback) is still $400 less than the BS not more $$ like so many would have us believe. Clearly some of the information getting posted here is not current. Viking comes in colors as well.

cdave - But it is a limited time offer. But they charge shipping. But they only sell to three states. On the other hand, on viking the backguard is standard, on Bluestar it is a $179 option.

I tell you what: I came here and said viking was $1000 more (based on what one particular salesman quoted me on a 36"), you came here and said it as $1000 less, based on two different web sites. I think that once again we should be able to come to an agreement: they are pretty much similarly priced. On the other hand, at least in keitel's Canada, it appears that Wolf is in fact 25% more expensive.

And those prices included island trim on both. Before I found that particular Wolf at that particular store I hadn't seen it for less than $5300. If i remember correctly, a 30" Viking AG at the store I bought the BS at was $4500.

The "builder" price for a BS 30" RNB was $3,199 at the local BS dealer (included the 6" riser). All the prices I mentioned are "builder" prices, which anyone off the street can easily get.

If your going to compare Wolf and Viking ranges with 15,000 btu burners, then you need to compare them against the RCS (18,000 btu burners), not the RNB (with 22,000btu burners). Lets compare apples to apples.

I just used the Wok tonight, and the RCS's 18,000btu burner did a very quick job of it. Even boiling large corn and lobster pots take no time at all. I haven't missed the 22,000btu's, but they certainly won't hurt, I just didn't think they were worth $1,200 extra. I use the 18,000btu burner on low to simmer water for poaching eggs, works perfectly.

I worked for Fairmont hotels, and many of the chef's have BlueStar's at home, that's why I was happy with my purchase (even though I secretly wanted those red knobs). Hey, maybe I can buy some red knobs on eBay for a few dollars?

Could you explain more about what "builder price" is and how to get it?

I could be wrong because it was not the range I priced, but I have good reason to guess that AJ Madison's approx $4100 for a 30" RNB with 6" riser is right around UMRP (or whatever that acronym is.) That would say that UMRP is about 32% higher than builder's price. Now assuming that dealers are not selling to builders out of the goodness of their hearts, are you implying that UMRP is considerably more than 32% over dealer cost?

I have no idea appliance mark-ups are, but are they really THAT high???

"The "builder" price for a BS 30" RNB was $3,199 at the local BS dealer. All the prices I mentioned are "builder" prices"

The prices you mentioned are HIGHER than MSRP for Viking so either builders pay a premium price where you live or your not comparing apples to apples. The RNB in the size you mentioned can be found for a little over 4k just as ya think stated.
Your also comparing 30" models so you have what? One 18k or one 22k burner on a 30" BS but you get stuck with a simmer burner. IMO that's a lousy set up on a 30" range unless you like cooking on three burners. I can't imagine any one giving up 25% of their cook space for 3k more BTU on one burner. On a 30" range that's even a HUGE trade off for one 22k burner.

ya think. I'm not sure what you are reading but on the web site YOU suggested the exact Viking model that compares closest to the BS is $3500. This is the same model I linked above that was $3600 at the other store. I'm pricing SS not custom colors so I think you need to check which price you are looking at. I have no idea how you see that as the same price as the BS at $4,100 with the cheapest back guard. So in the 30" range Viking is $700 LESS and offers a a lot more cook space. It seems a little odd to me that you seem to take exception to the price I pulled for BS right the BS sales page ($4600) and claim it's THE highest price and yet it's only $500 off the price on your web site. At the same time you try to state the Viking is priced the same as the BS when it's actually $700 less?????

http://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/RNB304BSS.html

Here is a link that might be useful: Viking at Madison

cdave - You are right, I misread and did not notice that the price was for colors.

HEY EVERYBODY - VIKING IS CHEAPER THAN BLUESTAR!!!color>size>

(It oughta be, too, as it is widely viewed as a POS.) size>

Ok, I am done!

Wait, I'm not done. What are you talking about, one 22K burner? Try TWO.

So, since you are counting, 22+22+15+9=68. 15+15+15+15=60

And is a simmer burner really a bad thing? It is still about 9K and Actually what it does is allow better heat to hit smaller cookware. Now if you are someone who needs 4 big pots on high regularly, perhaps a 30" range is not enough for you in the first place.

Once again I stand corrected. Comparing apples to apples, the closest thing to the Viking is RCB model which (with backguard) sells for around 3349. So rather than point out the $200 savings I will just go back to saying they are about the same price.

Ok, now I am REALLY done pissing in the wind!

ya think? Kind of a pain when facts actually get in the way huh? I do want to clarify that when I made the last post I was taking your 4k figure at face value then like you adding the $200 for the BS 6" back splash. However the BS is actually $3900 so when I said $700 less I was wrong it is $600 less.
HOWEVER, on the Madison website (you know the one you suggested) click the rebate tab. They have an additional $500 rebate on 30" and a $1,000 rebate on the 48" Viking models until early this fall so that currently makes the 30" Viking $1,100 LESS.
That my friend is a long flippin ways from the $5400 price Jr Chef is trying to tell us was some special "builders price" and freight is free.
Does it help the OP in any way talking about 30" ranges and cooktops? Maybe, maybe not.
One thing is for certain. The days of BS just being universally less expensive than Wolf or Viking are over. If you haven't priced theese out in the last year you may be in for a bit of a suprise.
As far as your wittle POS comment I don't think either BS or Viking will be winning any awards for customer service but at least Viking makes the cut to get reveiwed by consumer reports. I very much doubt BS would rate well in the repairs category.

Here is a link that might be useful: Madison Viking Rebate

cdave - you posted too fast. Since you are taking my BS prices at face value, look at the post above. A comparable BS is cheaper.

"A comparable BS is cheaper"
Check your math again. The RCB has ONE 18k burner. NO 22k burners. That product even if I take your price as a fact (which based on your BS fanboyism and POS comment I'm not sure I do) is still $350 more than the Viking and the RCB doesn't even have center grates and other features of the RBS. The vast majority turn to BS for the 22k burner and now your looking at a product that doesn't even offer the brands primary feature.
The RBS is $1100 more and your seriously telling me it only has 8k more BTU's? YA THINK it's really worth $1,100 for 8k BTU's?
IMO a dedicated simmer burner is a major negative when you only have four burners.
The bottom line is that you want to take exception to the BS price being $500 more on the BS web site but when Viking is $350 less than a stripped down BS you try to say they are priced the same. Come on, what happended to a level headed conversation?

"Come on, what happended to a level headed conversation?"

It ended the second you accused me of "BS fanboyism" when I was in fact the first person on this thread to post negative comments about BS and continued to do so throughout.

You think that the primary reason people think BS's burners are so great are because they can throw around the 22K number? Think again - otherwise people would be jumping on your fivestar bandwagon, too. You have posted at least as many inaccurate statements as I have. At least mine are unintentional and I step up to the plate and admit them, sometimes even before you come back with your snide remarks.

Get a life.

How did we go from BS vs. Wolf to BS vs. POS?

It ended the second you accused me of "BS fanboyism".

And where did you think it would go with that childish post you made? I take it that you can't argue with the facts in my last post because you can see I'm correct. People can BS all day long with prices for a 30" viking over 5k but the links YOU CHOSE prove that's nonsense.
This has passed the point of silly and now your all wet from whizzen in the wind. I may have made some errors in my posts but at least I corrected them. However if you find a new RCB for under $3,000 with two 22k burners I'll be happy to stand corrected. LOL
I actually own and use one of theese brands. I'd be very suprised if you could say the same and your not just regurgitating more nonsense you read on the internet.

cdave - No, I do not own a very good range. And guess what, neither do you.

I'm sure many of the readers are enjoying this thread, it's quite amazing how off topic it has become.

I must stand corrected: I just took a closer look at the quote and the Viking was $5,399 for the DF (not AG). Sorry for the misrepresentation.

I did look at the BS site, none of the actual BS dealers sell for anything close to those numbers. Like I said, the 30" RCS is $1,995, and 30" RNB was $3,199. Viking had to lower their prices, look at their reputation & the economy ( just do a search on Viking on this site and you'll see why I never even considered it in the running). This is certainly the time to be buying high-end appliances, I just purchased a new c/d Thermador Freedom fridge for $2,800 below list and I'm considering the top of the line Asko DW for $500 below list (I'm hoping Miele will drop their prices before I need it delivered!).

I also considered DCS and FiveStar, but I just couldn't find anything substantive about either of them (I even posted to find out about the Five Star).

But I digress, the thread is BS vs Wolf, not BS vs Wolf vs Viking vs 5Star.

The RCS has two 15,000 burners, one 18,000 btu, and one 9,000 btu, plus the 1850F broiler. Even at Thanksgiving, I've never had 4 burners on high, so I'm perfectly fine with the simmer burner. However, let's not discount that simmer burner. I would rather had a simmer that went down to 350F like BS, than Wolf's 500F simmer. At 500F you just cannot do delicate sauces (of course you could just use a simmer plate, but that is a pain if you need some quick heat). After all, the reason you buy one of these ranges is to cook, after all they are pieces of Steel that produce a flame so you can cook food, quite simple really.

My advice to mark_g (the original poster, if anyone can remember the poor guy) is do your research so when you get a great deal, you can jump on it right away. US Appliances.com is also a great resource for getting online prices, then take them into your local dealer and get them to match them if needed. I put my top 5 choices in my pda, and when I saw a good deal, I started negotiated right away. I really think BS or Wolf are both good brands, but for me the $$ won out. My only concern with a Wolf 48" is to make sure your gas inlet pipe to the range is 1/4" bigger than what they say in the book, because Wolf has a known issue with the 36"+ AG ranges running both oven and all burners (read the forum to see more about that issue). Not sure if that'll be fixed with their new lineup which is due out in a couple of months.

Another strategy is to tell them your flipping some high-end homes and will need high-end appliances regularly. This will get you the "builder" prices, which has been pointed out is sometimes good, sometimes not so good.

And the evidence continues to mount

"I must stand corrected: I just took a closer look at the quote and the Viking was $5,399 for the DF (not AG). Sorry for the misrepresentation"

I appreciate your honesty. It was only my intent to show that those prices were not current or the best comparisons.

Ya think, I want to aplogize. Even though I think your posts were incredibly immature I should not have called you a fanboy as you have indeed been very impartial except for price. I'll even conceed that the 30" BS with one 18k burner is the best comaprison to the Viking.
I also want to apologize to the OP. I'm truelly sorry this took the turn it did. That was not my intent and I can only hope in all of this there has been some small tidbits of use.
I'll second what Jr Chef stated about the Wolf Gas line. I've been told the same by a sales person I work with often and I have found his advice to be very reliable over the years.
On a 48" like the OP was asking about the simmer burner is a non issue for me as long as a six burner option is utilized. BS also has the best infrared broiler at 1850 degrees.

Just for the record: an apology that begins with an insult is quite insincere. Can we please end this.

stevep, you ruined it for me. I was actually moved by the gesture. LOL!

cdave, it's all good. I was wrong on price, but it was not intentional.

So, anyone have anything more meaningful to say on BS verus Wolf? If so, put it on another thread and let this one die!

Re: gas pipe/line

The fitting on the range is only 1/2". The typical house pipe is 3/4". The flex pipe converts from 3/4" to 1/2". If the oven is rigged for a 1/2" feed, what do you mean by using a 1/4" larger pipe...where? The house pipe? (you'd still have to convert down from the house pipe down to the 1/2" required by the range....are you suggesting changing the regulator in the oven to receive the larger pipe? I'm not following this and I need more specifics--we're experiencing the burner problems with the 36" AG.

We've asked Wolf on more than one occasion about the gas line size (having read about that here) and been assured that the 3/4" house pipe connected to a 1/2" flex pipe to the range is the proper set-up.

"Even though I think your posts were incredibly immature"

Ok I'll aplogize again because that was a typo. I am possibly the worlds worst typist. I meant to say post not "posts" and I should hope we both regret at least one post on this thread. In either event I unequivocally apologize.

Cat_Mom, You are correct the main gas line should be 3/4", then it will be converted to 1/2" so it can connect to the range. The issue with Wolf was the instructions said 1/2" all the way (this may be corrected by now). It should also be mentioned its the same issue with BS, however their manual says the main gas pipe to the range should be 1/4" larger than the connection on the range (which is 1/2"). We had a 1/2" pipe, and we had to spend another $800 bringing in a larger 3/4" one (fyi - it was 30' away for the main gas line, so it cost more).

Now if you are still experiencing the problem, that would be interesting to know, then it would mean it would be a Wolf range issue, because my BS with everything going (which has more total btu's) works perfectly fine.

I'm a decent cook, but I'm not going to rival any real chefs. I cook for the enjoyment of the cooking itself and for the pleasure of eating the food I've prepared. Wolf or BS...I don't think it really matters that much. I have a BS and the baby rocks. The burners seem plenty hot enough and neither I nor my partner has ruined a meal cooking on them. The oven does my roasts just fine and so to my cakes and pies. I have not observed any issues with the door not closing properly and letting heat escape. I've cooked and spilled things into the burners and yet the stove top looks about as it did the day I bought it. I clean up what I can but I don't invest the elbow energy to get of every last spec of spilled grease or sauce.

I put water on the stove to boil and I go on chopping things or whatever and when I see it boiling, I put whatever in the boiling water. Maybe the BS boils water faster than the Wolf, but then when I had an old-school Hotpoint stove, it boiled water too and I got things done while I waited for that water to boil. The point is that I now know how long it's going to take to boil the water and I use that time to do other things I need to do. I don't think it matters one bit whether my range boils it faster or slower than any other range.

I'd read much of the ranting here last year before buying a BS range and finally, after comparing American, BS, Wolf and Capital, I opted for the BS mainly because it was less expensive than the rest and was just as likely IMO to adequately cook the food I'm likely to prepare. As it turns out, my partner, a professional chef, is similarly quite content to cook on it. Indeed, his response when I asked him about which to buy was:

Get whatever you want because it won't matter for what you cook and as a pro, I can cook great food on anything as long as I have a good knife.

So, though I can't tell you that one brand is better than the other, the fact is that it probably doesn't matter. Also, I can tell you that you should think about is how important are other folks' opinions. Decide (and rank) what matters most to you, be it fit and finish, name recognition, simple aesthetics, BTU output, sealed burners, or whatever, and buy what you want based on that set of criteria.

The fact is that you are looking at two fine appliances and until you actually use one or the other, you won't really know whether you made the right decision because the differences between them are oh so subtle.

One observation I have is that the BS owners/users here seem to praise the BS based on its performance and functional design features, and little else. And the Wolf owners/users here seem to raise a variety of factors that have nothing to do with the observed performance of the range, although some did mention performance factors.

The entire line of discussion about lineage and commercial cooking appliances is a red herring -- you aren't buying a commercial appliance. Period. A lousy commercial manufacturer is quite able to make a stellar home product and a great commercial manufacturer is just as capable of making a pitiful home product.

For me the most beautiful thing about a range is how well it does the job of heating food, not how well it looks when I stand next to it. Let's face it, I'm not taking it on a date. My BS cooks food just fine. I can go to a friend's home and cook just as well on his Wolf.

I defy anyone here to find someone who can honestly say they just can't cook well on one or the other of these ranges.

Hot knobs? Puh-lease, are you telling me you don't have a hot pot holder right there when you are cooking? Fit and finish? Does this refer to somebody's sense of aesthetics, or are you saying, for example, that the seals around the oven are poorly made and your heat is escaping?

I'm fine with valid complaints about dissatisfaction, but I just don't see any of those sorts of things here.

jrchef, may I ask: are you in Canada or how did you get the RCS for $1995?

Blue Star had a special last fall. I saw an RCS in person at Universal Appliance in Van Nuys for that price. Long, the salesman, told me they had about 70 available from Bluestar at that price. When I was there the warehouse had 7 left.

Thanks, jeff. Just my luck. RATS. I just called and they're out of them at that price.

I have a Bluestar, but I wish I would have gone with the Wolf. This is just my personal experience, but I've had issues with the Bluestar and getting repairs made has been a nightmare. If you go Bluestar (and I didn't read the whole thread, so I don't know if you've already decided) make sure you have local service familiar with the brand and willing to work on it. I warn you, please, do NOT believe everyone who says it's so "easy" and "anyone can fix it." I was told, by Bluestar's then-service rep that there were "dozens" of people in my area who could work on this range, prior to purchase. When problems cropped up it took, literally, months to find anyone who would even touch it and, even then, that person had never seen one before in his life--and the service I've received reflects that inexperience.

With a well-known, national brand like Wolf, this wouldn't be a problem.

Just one person's opinion/experience ... Take it for what it's worth.

-Susan W.

nail 1

nail 2... can I get a 3? Let's nail, this post shut.

Most of this blog sounds like a bunch of appliance guys trying to go 1 up on each other yathink

breezy_2 - you need to learn how to count :-)

I have a nail to spare... nail 3!

Just a few more to go...

A guy in a cab taps the cabbie on the shoulder. The cabbie jumps on the gas, loses control, slams into a light post. The guy says, "Geez I didn't mean to startle you, I just had a question." The cabbie says, "It's really not your fault. For the last 25 years I drove a hearse."

(ok, not very good but fitting just because of the coffin)

Funeral...cold winter day. Coming out of church the pallbearers slip on some ice and the coffin goes flying. Down the steps, across the sidewalk, down the street, up a curb, crashing through the front of a pharmacy, right up to the counter where it comes to a violent stop, sending the coffin up on end. Lid opens, the pharmacist asks the stiff "Can I help you?"

"Yeah, you have something to stop this coughin'?"

weissman - ??? did I miss something? Anyway, we now have a 3, and arguably 4 and 5 so I put up a 6. Do I hear a 7 in the crowd? This has been a very enjoyable post. Just trying to retire it while it is` has good bones.

breezy - I think he thought that you thought that just a third nail would do it. Almost there!

yup - ya_think hit the nail on the head :-)