Dell and HP are still having some problems, especially with support and quality. While the raw specs look good, you want to think about things like cooling and quality of the wiring ...which IMHO should both be up their with CPU,GPU, RAM and hard drive.

Also, XP is not going to be around for ever. The writing is on the wall and Microsoft probably will start phasing it out wihtin two years...if they had their way (the government might throw a wrench in that). They are in business and they have to sell to stay in business. I just wish they were more accountable and more fair...that's for another dimension.

With the Dell,speaking of Dimensions, you are wasting money on 1 GB of dual channel RAM. It is cheaper, at this point, to get 2GB of dual channel RAM now then later. Heaven forbid if it ever gets to 4GB we might need, and it might, but your 1 GB is just taking up space and might have to be replaced, not added to.

My aunt was going to buy the HP Pavilion Slimline S7740N Desktop PC for about 550.00 with Vista Premium. HP issued a warning they STRONGLY advise 2GB of RAM with VISTA. People who are getting these are out of memory just surfing the web and can't watch the movies at You Tube. They also are developing serious overheating problems. She came to her senses about all the warnings here and on the HP forums and at the checkout got the more expensive expandable HP Pavilion A1740N with 2 GB of RAM.

I know you are not getting Vista, but you will soon enough. When it comes to computers "Luck favors the prepared" as Edna from the Incredibles would say.

As HP said to me "I would like for you to believe that the above information will be helpful to you." Which should send an alarm down anyones spine, support is offshore.

A lot of people will reply with suggestions of different makes and models, take a good look at them, especially if they are not HP or Dell. Dell used to be the leader in support and computer care. Today, there are still so many DELL HELL sites, I don't even want to get into that. Why HP decided to follow in their footsteps I'll never know.

There's a good budget entry easily upgradable computer from Micro Innovations. I tried to sell my aunt on it, and failed, as I probably will with you. The cases aren't pretty and the site isn't spiffy, but they use good stuff.

I hate to be a buzz kill, but you are not going to get a worthwhile computer in the 500.00 range. Things are in an upheavel like they have never been before. CPU is giving away to GPU's ...even for web surfing. That's a nice processor at 2.8. Mine is 3.2 and going to be utterly useless because my graphics is integrated. There's a shift.

Take stock in investing not only in the here and now...which is a mess, but in the future, so you won't have to replace your computer in two years.

Micro Express Home page:

http://www.microexpress.net/default.asp

The one I recommend:

http://www.microexpress.net/proddetail.asp?category=Desktop&subcat=&linenumber=106

If you are interested, customize. Hit the button under the little picture. There are some very good computers out there, I think that is one of them for a reasonable price.

marf

I have a fried brain, I keep calling Micro Express, Micro Innovations...forgive me. marf

A friend of mine just got the Dimension from Dell and loves it. It was the same price, but she also got a 19" monitor (they offered her a deal when she called to order the tower).

Jane

All my computers except for one Dell laptop have been HPs, and I've never had any problem with the hardware. One time I was having a software problem and used the online chat at the HP site and got the information I needed to straighten things out. In fact, I have never had to call the support line on either the HPs or the Dell. I currently have a desktop HP that is 1 1/2 years old and a newer HP notebook that is almost 6 months old. Both run XP Media Center Edition, and both are upgradable to Vista Home Premium if I so wished. The only thing I would do to either is add another gig of RAM to the present 1GB each has. I have been very satisfied with the quality of these machines. I also found them to have more bang for my buck!

I was reading someof the reviews at CNET, whom I usually don't agree with at all, but apparently we are in agreement on the current lineup, especially where HP and Dell is concerned.

While I'm glad my Aunt didn't buy the HPS7700N and bought the HP A1740N instead, their recommendation was to leave it on the shelf and gave their higher ratings to lesser known company.

I for one don't have the cash to buy a computer every few years. When I look at a computer, it has got to last at least five years. Actually only one reason is the cash, its an agonaizing decision, and a decision I wouldn't want to make more than every five years. I know plenty of people that have spent more than a 1000.00 for a computer that they hate, doesn't meet their needs, has to repaired constantly, and ultimately had to replaced within one or two years. Surprisingly, those friends are people that bought a computer to meet their needs.

My Aunt got almost 10 years out opf her old HP. The company has since changed, there's a few good models, but not great for the price. I couldn't persuade her, she wanted HP and that was that.

There was a recent debate at the CNET forums on whose to blame for the lack of Vista compatibility, of course CNET defends Microsoft...since everything has to be Microsoft approved to work with their OS offerings, I don't see how they can defend them ...yada, yada, yada, but most of the Vista problems came from people who had bought HP computers. Finally about a hundred or so posts down, someone finally titled their post..."Ya know this thread really isn't a ringing endorsement of HP!" I didn't even realize it at first. I went back over as many posts as I could, the ones I skimmed over with huge VISTA complaints all were from HP owners. As I said, they are having mucho problems with overheating on their new slimline series (probably an effort to be the PC version of the MAC MINI).

Dell is neither here nor there at the moment. Sometimes you can get good deals from them, other times you are saddled with stuff they are trying to get rid of.

I remember back in 2000 when Dell made the very best computers and had the very best support. I wanted a Dell so badly. No more. But that is me.

CNET recommended Velocity Micro in the budget field and they were the price range of 750.00 to 1000.00, which you should figure on paying (including rebates and incentives). Most users agreed with CNET's choice, except for the 1000.00 model. A lot people reported problems with it.

If companies skimp, they skimp on cooling and quality of wiring materials.

Beneath 3 or four VM models their next choice was the MAC MINI...and some other Mac around a 1000.00 which is something to think about if you aren't required to use Windows. That would solve a lot of problems and hassles.

People that break the Microsoft (sort of anyway) umbilical cord seem to be very happy. I don't know of anyone screaming "I went out and bought a Mac and I was so miserable without Windows, I ran over to BB and bought the first PC saw!" It might be the case for some, none that I know of.

Ultimately you are going to buy what you want to buy, just as my aunt did with her HP. If you want your choice sanctioned for confidence, I can't give it. I just spent two weeks going over details of 500.00 to 600.00 range computers (including rebates) and even my 74 year old aunt had enough sense to realize cheap is cheap at the checkout.

Budget now is in the 700.00 to 1000.00 range because XP's days are numbered. Vista works computers hard. Vista is not an upgrade. It is a whole new ball game.

marf

Are you currently running Windows 98? If so, you may want to look for an XP machine. It will be another year until Vista's bugs are worked out.

The best bang for the buck that I've found is cyber power pc or I buy power. You can pick the case, motherboard and upgrade the power supply. My friend just paid $800 for an IBM that was not as good as a preconfigured $600 model at CP.

There are several new Dells and Hp's in our area. I have set most of them up for internet. Their owners are pleased with all of them. I always have custom built, but if I were to buy a manufactured one, based on what I have seen using either the Dell, or the Hp, I would consider either one of them. Good Luck with your decision. :-)Cat

I think the message is to stay away from the "mini" towers. If you choose a full sized tower, you should be okay as far as the heat problem. Ask about the size of the power supply and how the cooling is set up. My new HP notebook is so quiet, I sometimes wonder if the fans are working, but it never gets hot to the touch, just barely warm.

Currently we do have XP, and the Dell does come with Vista. We just bought a brand new 19" monitor about three weeks ago so we don't need that or a printer. We don't need a mini tower, our computer desk has a cabinet for a full size tower so size isn't an issue (insert joke here).

Thanks for all the suggestions!

Another consideration is service. You need to be able to reach someone who you can understand. Dell seems to have really improved. I had to call about a problem regarding an internet connection problem and thought it was IE7. Turned out it wasn't. Verizon problem.
I was pleasantly surprised. I was only on hold a few minutes and got a very nice man in Tennessee. Spent a lot of time checking everything before we both realized it was not a computer issue. Had called Verizon first and had demanded someone I could understand. I was so furious at their treatment. They wanted me to reinstall my OS. The Dell guy checked as much as possible, off-line, over the phone, but was satisfied it was a Verizon problem.
Anyway, I was satisfied with the service.

Jane

Michelle, if the desk has a door on the compartment, you need to take it off. Air will not circulate

The Toshiba A135 received a Very Good rating from cnet. Cnet doesn't give very many $1000 affordable laptops that high of a rating. I recently bought the A135 2877, I believe is the model, the one with 2 gs of mem. (would recommend 2 gigs minimum for vista, from what I hear. It has a 180g hard drive, actually two seperate hard drives, a 100g plus an 80g. Great for backing up your system. With this much memory and hd space, you could collect a sizeable video and audio library (were talking hundreds of songs and movies). It runs Vista flawlessly. Yes, there are faster systems out there. I would have loved one with the Nvidia graphics card, which would give you a whopping 512m of shared graphics memory. The Intel that comes with the A135 has 256megs, acceptable. For about $1100 at costco online, I thinks it's one of the best deals out there. It was about $300 more than I wanted to spend on a laptop, but I'm just thinking where technology is going today, with streaming video, tv and music becomming more and more prevailant, before too long, anything less that 2 gigs of memory and a harddrive less than 100 gigs will probably be obsolete in the next couple years. I think this will be sufficient for our needs for some years to come.
--
john

ooops, I thought you were shopping for a laptop. After rereading your post, it seems you are shopping for a desktop... anyway, good luck!

I am on my fifth Dell (three desktops and two laptops). I just got the XPS 410 this time around. With Vista. It's brand new so it has been working like a dream (in other words, I haven't had a chance to mess it up!). I find these computers to be very reliable. Knock on wood, have never had an unfixable problem. Any problems I have ever had were fixable by little ol' me. I use to love it when the technical support dept. was in Texas and you could call them in the middle of the night to resolve issues. I once called and with the help of the Dell technician reformatted my hard drive - it was so much fun and I learned so much!!! I don't know if they do that anymore.

Wanted to say thanks to all for computer help. Special thanks to marthapartha for your detailed and informative replys. Found out one of my neighbors builds computers and has built several for other neighbors. So I got him to build me one. ECS elitegroup G33T-M2 motherboard. Intel core 2 duo E6850 processor. ATI Sapphire X1950 XT graphics card. Kingston DDR2 2GB memory ( 2 1GB sticks). Logitech cordless keyboard and mouse. 500GB hard drive. Antec sonata II case. And leaving my 17" CRT monitor for a Samsung 21.6" widescreen. Oh, I also have Vista installed and so far so good. My old computer was a 10 year old Dell. So I feel like I have parked the Fred Flintstonemobile and am now driving a cadillac!