But please tell me some of you would be a little disappointed as well?

i'd be *thrilled* to be getting something so closely resembling what i was dreaming of.

I feel like I'm getting a VW when I wanted the Audi.

it's more like you got the audi, but it's only got a single cd player instead of a 6-disc changer.

count your blessings!

I see you live in NY. I live in NJ. Maybe I could take it off your hands!

Thanks all. I know. I need to get a grip. We are not going to have the money to change it out right away so I will have to live with it for now, if not longer. Because of how the new kitchen is configured, dream scenario of 36" 6 burner and a wall oven is not going to happen. It's just that it's an "almost but not quite there" appliance. The Wolf All Gas don't have quite the same feel as the dual fuel models. They are more stripped down, hence the VW/Audi comparison.

Eh. I inherited a DCS all gas in my current kitchen. Again not the appliance I would have chosen but it has done what it's supposed to do.

If only they had opted not to install the built in Miele espresso station and put that money towards the better model of the Wolf stove. I'm going to talk to my contractor to see if we can remove the espresso maker so I can have more counter space.

Anyway, thanks for your feedback.

Boy, you are jaded complaining about kitchens with DCS and Wolf ranges and built-in espresso machines. :-) Most people would be thrilled. Also, many of us prefer gas ranges to dual fuel - and although I personally like sealed burners, many people prefer the semi-open burners on the Wolf AG. By the way, I CHOSE a DCS all gas range and love it!

jaded is a very generous and diplomatic way of putting it.

Don't really get off on the emerging class warfare. Just don't understand what a bunch of total strangers could could bring to this table. Since she doesn't have money enough to do anything about it anyway, what's to think about? Seems to be some mental diddling going on.

i think she wants us to feel her pain.

Start saving. Either 10 grand (or whatever) will come quickly to you in which case do what you want, or else it will take a while and you might have a bit more respect for what you are thinking about throwing away. It's a win-win. Either you get your dream range or you have 10 grand in your pocket to play with.

asolo my friend - what exactly are you bringing to the table here besides sneering? did you wanna go save Darfur or something? ;-)

Well, that would make the third post of yours on this thread that I'm apparently not understanding the purpose of. In this case, not even the meaning of.... although I do appreciate the winking smiley. Probably best if I just drop out of this one. See ya.

i actually have the same question as asolo. what is it you're wanting from this topic?

do you want specific questions answered?

do you want sympathy for your sad plight?

do you want affirmation that you're not being a nitpicky whiner?

what, exactly?

Something I am curious about is what do you cook that would require your stove to have six burners? Actually it sounds like you already have a Mercedes instead of a VW. Have you checked the prices on a stove with both grill and griddle as compared to a six burner with griddle?

Dipsy:

I'm assuming this is the stove you have...

If so, I'm going to agree with many of the other posters here and say "give it a try".

The charbroiler may not be the thing you really want, but who knows? You may find it to be very useful, especially if you don't grill outside very much. As far as replacing it, it will have basically the same resale value in 1 year as it does now, so you have quite a while to decide if it is worth the extra 10K (minus resale value) to upgrade.

I personally like ranges without computerized oven controls... just a personal preference. Good luck!

but the leather interior isn't black it's cream-colored. and the heated seats only heat the butt part, the heat doesn't go all the way up the back! oh, woe is me!

it sounds like you already have a Mercedes instead of a VW

but the leather interior isn't black it's cream-colored. and the heated seats only heat the butt part, the heat doesn't go all the way up the back! oh, woe is me!

Alywa - yes, that's the stove. And it will be fine. I guess I'm disappointed because I don't think the all gas Wolf is worth the money - if I didn't have the money for the dual fuel Wolf, my preference would have been a GE Monogram. To me, this is a Wolf for the sake of a Wolf, without having some features I really wanted (I have a preference for electric oven and I loved the hidden digital panel). I had a Monogram dual fuel in my previous kitchen and really loved it.We had planned a large kitchen extension on our current house and I had picked out my "dream" appliances, when we decided to switch gears and found a new house that better met our needs. So the stove that comes with is a slight disappointment. It's not where I would have spent my kitchen dollars. There's an outdoor grill just steps away from the kitchen so the chargrill feature is pretty useless to me. But it is what it is. And so it goes... ;-)

I really do not see why some of you are beating this girl up so bad. It is not like she posted without more than freely admitting she felt like "and absolute whiner" and "a chump" who needs to "get a grip". Tons of people here have "dilemmas" which I could only wish I had. So what?

dipsy - For what it is worth I can understand why you are having this "so close yet so far away" type of feeling. When I bought my house I was specifically looking for ones that did not have recent bathroom or kitchen remodels. That way I would never be conflicted about ripping out perfectly good stuff. But "perfectly good" is what your range is. So stop whining, chump, and get a grip! Like I said above, if it still means that much to you when you have an expendable $10G then that is the time to deal with it.

dipsy - I do have to say, though, as others have mentioned before, DF is not "better" than AG. Each has benefits. DF just happens to be more expensive. So in my opinion comments about leaving out the Miele or buying a Monogram instead, and insinuating that AG is just a cheap way to get a brand name, is completely misguided. And in retrospect probably why you are not getting much love here.

Dispy, I hesitate to say this as I know it could have the opposite effect I intend, but I am on the cusp of moving into a house with substantially what you want (36" Wolf rangetop with grill rather than 36" DF range) after five years in a house with a nothing special AG Hotpoint range, and am not expecting what comes out of my kitchen to be dramatically more delicious overnight. The cook makes the biggest difference, and I'll wager that you'll produce Rolls Royce results whether you're cooking on the VW, Audi, or Mercedes.

Oh come on Ya Think. I stand by my assertion that for the money, the Wolf AG is *not* the way to go. Having spent hours poring over this forum when we were planning our kitchen, I read and reread so many threads on every conceivable range out there that I came away pretty handily convinced that there were much better, less expensive options than a Wolf AG. (Which is how we ended up with Monogram in the previous kitchen and which is how I had planned to do the Wolf DF in my new kitchen). I'm not insinuating that AG is a cheap way to get a brand name, I believe it IS a cheap way to get a brand name. It's a VW masquerading as an Audi. The VW is a terrific car in its own right. I know. We have one. But a Passat is not an A6. Close. But not quite there. There are many similiarities but some subtle differences that may or may not matter to you but are reflected in the higher price. That is all. Cheers.

Chipshot - word up my friend! This is truer than true and perhaps the crux of the reason why I feel like a whiner. I will immodestly allow that I can produce a fantastic meal on a 24 inch apartment sized electric range with battered pots and pans and dull kitchen knives. And ultimately the vehicle gets you to the same destination. But yeah, I did sort of have my heart set on something else. Onwards.

Wow. I was going to actually post about how I could kind of see where you were coming from, until I saw that I apparently went the cheap way to get a brand name stove.

dipsy - Here are two valid reasons some people may actually "prefer" AG:

1) More versatle high and low range: All burners 500-16K BTU as opposed to all but one being 950-15K, just one 325-9.2K BTU.

2) Superior broiler - infrared

Oh and your beloved fold-away control? One could say that is a DF masquerading as an AG by hiding those embarassing electronics. LOL.

Oh and your beloved fold-away control? One could say that is a DF masquerading as an AG by hiding those embarassing electronics. LOL

Yep. Give me knobs, any day!

/This thread is hilarious, BTW.

it's sickening, honestly.

ranges are tools, people, not status symbols. my sense is that dipsy is *way* too caught up in looking at the letters, numbers, and namebadges on other people's cars, appliances, and probably electronics, shoes, and handbags as well.

the OP's mindset of how everything must be *just perfect!* is a big part of What Is Wrong With This Country right now. so many people feel the need to live up to these incredibly decadent images of other people's homes, weddings, clothes, cars, etc, that they see in magazines and on tv, they expend tons of energy/money trying to attain what they see as perfection. thinking that, once they get it, they will finally be happy.

it's crazy thinking. and it causes far too many people to get caught up in the hyperconsumption treadmill, always replacing, upgrading, trading in a 2006 car with 30K miles because it doesn't have bluetooth, whatever. nutso. people in this country throw out more useful stuff in a year than some nations import in a decade.

this kind of mindset is a big part of why our economy is in the shape it's in today, as far too many people decided to use their home's equity like an ATM so they could play keep up with the joneses, the j-lo's, and the trumps.

this is a sickness, folks, and it's constantly fed by the media, who make TONS of money making sure we are never cured. it's something that my wife and i work very hard at limiting in our lives, but it's difficult, because it's deeply ingrained in our society.

the sooner we, as individuals, realize this, the sooner we can start working to counter all the forces that are encouraging us to take part in it. it's not easy. but the first thing you need to do is acknowledge it.

Eyeroll here. And y'all who are pissing in your pants know damn well that if I came here posting the list of appliances I wanted in my dream kitchen and that if I included the Wolf 48 inch All Gas, there would have, no doubt, been thread after thread about what an idiot I was to fall for the Wolf name when there were clearly MANY better, less expensive options. Knock yourselves out.

edlakin....whoa! Never thought I'd be sharing an eye roll with dipsy!

Think I'll leave this keyboard and go make some primo food on my el cheapo kitchenaide. Got some shitakes that need attention. They've never cared what they were prepared on.

Actually from what I know of the Wolf DF it is one of many excellent ranges out there, certainly one to be envied. I think that most here would agree.

And like I said above I understand how you could be somewhat disappointed that your near-perfect kitchen does not include your dream range. But that is hardly a reason to come here and bash a perfectly good high-performance range as a waste of money. For all your supposed extensive research you could at least provide some reasons to bash a range that you have never used.

It is your snobby attitude that has turned this thread into some wacky social commentary. What was your question anyway? Resale value? Probably a fraction of what it cost new. Used and out of warranty and I have to move it? I would probably offer you a couple grand at best. So there you have it.

dipsy - what's really ironic is that for many years Wolf and DCS only made all-gas ranges for both the commercial and home market (how many restaurants do you know that have dual-fuel ranges). It was only to compete in the home market place with Viking and Thermador that they introduced dual fuel ranges about 4 years ago. Now the Wolf dual fuel is a nice product but to call the AG a cheap wannabee to get the brand name is totally absurd.

What is with all of the personal attacks and rude remarks?

Dipsy, FWIW, I wish that I could afford to remodel our new home's kitchen and find someone such as yourself who would love our Wolf 6 burner w/ griddle DF. Because of chronic back pain, I much prefer wall ovens and a cooktop instead of our current configuration. But with dh's employer's stock down about 75%, medical bills continuing to roll in and our other house not yet sold, remodeling will have to wait. However, if this house had come w/ any brand of gas oven, I would have found a way to replace it or else there would not be any baking or roasting done until I could. I lost most of my eyebrows once on a gas oven and have no desire to experience that again. That may be silly, but we all have our foibles.

As for the comment about the espresso station, I took that as meaning that the previous owner's choice of how to spend a finite appliance budget is not the way Dipsy would have allocated the same dollars. What's so bad about that? I don't drink coffee, so unless dh really wanted to keep that espresso maker, I'd be looking into removing it for more work space as well. Should it be kept just for show instead? Good grief.

what's bad about it is her attitude. she's lucky enough to be in a situation where she's moving into a home that's equipped with appliances that 99% of the population will never make enough money to even dream of affording, and she's turning up her nose at them.

there's a way to express the same feelings about the situation without seeming like such a materialistic snob.

but doing so wouldn't send the same self-image forming messages of "i deserve only the ultimate best most perfect things" out into the world and inward to herself. it's self-stroking via high end consumption. or, in this case, turning up one's nose at the not-quite-right high end consumption of others.

y'all who are pissing in your pants know damn well that if I came here posting the list of appliances I wanted in my dream kitchen and that if I included the Wolf 48 inch All Gas, there would have, no doubt, been thread after thread about what an idiot I was to fall for the Wolf name when there were clearly MANY better, less expensive options.

i have to say, i think that's just plain untrue. i have found people here to be very non-judgmental and diplomatic. i haven't seen anyone try and talk someone out of a specific purchase, and certainly not call them an 'idiot' for stating that they want one product over another.

folks here tend towards asking questions about cooking style and preferences so as to help someone understand what appliance will best suit their needs.

and i've actually been totally unaware of the is perception that dual-fuel is superior to all-gas. i've only ever owned all gas and don't like appliances to have a lot of electronics, as my perception is that those are what most often break down. i've discussed my preferences here often and no one has ever called me an 'idiot' or implied anything negative about me because i bought an all gas range.

so, no. i don't think anyone knows damn well that would've happened. because it simply would not have.

edlakin - you certainly have a lot to say but not necessarily the greatest reading comprehension. so. my final word. and then feel free to knock yourselves out all over again. Yes. I am *SLIGHTLY* disappointed that the new, otherwise supremely fantastic dream kitchen (that is in fact part of a move that made much better financial sense than doing the kitchen addition we had planned on when we purchased our current home) contains a VERY expensive piece of equipment that TO ME (and please, in your imagination, let's go back and insert this TO ME in 64 point bold type)is not worth the money. And that for the money that was spent on appliances in the supremely fantastic dream kitchen, it is a VERY SLIGHT NIGGLE that, WOW! GEE! I'll be honest here on the APPLIANCE FORUM where some of you have been rehashing the same discussions about BTUs and Bluestars for several years since I first started reading this site....It's NOT WHAT I WOULD HAVE PICKED! I would have HAPPILY DOWNGRADED to an appliance that made better budgetary sense.

But you see edlakin, much as you would love to assume that some of us use our homes like ATM machines, alas, I'm afraid,in this case you would be mistaken.

And so I'll ride off into the sunset, and when, on the day I find I wish I really did have the 325btu ultra low simmmer burner that did not come with the AG model, well, I'll shed a tiny tear and get the hell on with my life.

Thank you.

Goodnight.

Yes. I am *SLIGHTLY* disappointed that the new, otherwise supremely fantastic dream kitchen (that is in fact part of a move that made much better financial sense than doing the kitchen addition we had planned on when we purchased our current home) contains a VERY expensive piece of equipment that TO ME (and please, in your imagination, let's go back and insert this TO ME in 64 point bold type)is not worth the money. And that for the money that was spent on appliances in the supremely fantastic dream kitchen, it is a VERY SLIGHT NIGGLE that, WOW! GEE! I'll be honest here on the APPLIANCE FORUM where some of you have been rehashing the same discussions about BTUs and Bluestars for several years since I first started reading this site....It's NOT WHAT I WOULD HAVE PICKED! I would have HAPPILY DOWNGRADED to an appliance that made better budgetary sense.

yeah, you said that already.

but, what is your point? why did you start this topic? what do you want to have happen here?

do you want advice? sympathy? a buyer for your less-than-ideal very expensive piece of equipment?

you've been asked this question already multiple times and haven't answered. leaving people no choice, really, but to read between the lines.

don't want people to speculate about your motivations? well, then, by all means, fill us in!

Wow I didn't read all of this non sense nor do I intend to. I will say that I use many of theese products by different manufacturers frequently. I often find it exceedingly odd that some lesser known brands with some draw backs often get touted like they are the only brand to consider simply because they cost a few bucks less while other brands often get looked down upon. There is nothing wrong with Wolf. It is a quality product. Not what I would choose but then you could have negotiated that with your home purchase.
I assume you want a dual fuel. Dual fuel IMO is over priced, over complicated and rarely appreciated. You would have to be a professional baker utilizing the product every day to truelly appreciate dual fuel over gas. Even then I know several professional bakers that use AG. Not that this should impact what you use or want it's just food for thought.
With dual fuel comes complex mother boards and electronics. This is exactly what most are trying to avoid in a commercial style product. With dual fuel you need dual hook ups which can be very costly if they are not already in place. With AG you have a great high BTU broiler.
In short I see a silver lining.

cdave - thank you for your thoughtful and intelligent reply. I appreciate it.

How many here have ever based a home purchase decision even partly on the appliances included with the dwelling? If all things other than that were equal I can see it being a factor, but usually other things such as location, room sizes and configuration, condition, orientation, amenities, finishes, price, etc, etc, etc, dominate. Please let's try to keep things from getting too personal. Home decisions can be emotional enough already.

this thread brings to mind that wolf ad that's currently running on tv, where the woman is out shopping for what, presumbably, is a fancy dinner party, and this imaginary guy over her shoulder keeps questioning her choices--"the whole fish?" he says, implying that she's not a good enough cook to pull off whatever it is she's planning.

then, of course, she gets into her incredibly upscale kitchen with her top of the line wolf and starts cooking up a storm...and the imaginary demon guy is vanquished!

the implication, of course, is that having such a precision-tuned piece of cooking gear will bolster anyone's confidence and make them a better cook. it's total bull, of course, but what's interesting is that they're not even really trying to sell the cooking equipment. they're selling the *image* and *perception* that comes with the purchase of this particular brand.

not what you'll make or what the $10K range will enable you to do (they show her grilling bread for bruschetta--not really too challenging of a task!) but how it'll make you *feel*.

I must be watching the wrong channels, or at the wrong time, as I've managed to miss that ad. I did see our new glass countertops on an episode of HGTV's "Househunters". I was crushed, CRUSHED, to learn that we weren't the only people in the world with them. (Yes, I am kidding.) I've yet to meet anyone who cared what kind of appliances we have who isn't shopping for new ones for themself.

LOL. Edlakin. You are showing a more than unhealthy obsession with this thread. If it pleases you to assume that I am a yuppie scum who learned to boil water and wanted a Wolf Dual Fuel to impress my yuppie scum friends, well, knock yourself out. But you might want to ask yourself why you need to keep conjecturing. In my not so humble (!) opinion, I think you should go off and enjoy your new kitchen already. Sheesh. You aren't going to get a treatise from me, no Diet of Dipsy expounding on the reasons why I am worthy of anything more than a 24 inch Hotpoint ca. 1984. That's between me and my sugar daddy.

Yep. FWIW at this point, I can understand. You had been planning a kitchen renovation, and in that renovation your dreams included a specific type of range, and then you decided not to renovate and the alternate plan landed you with something that was not quite what you had hoped for. It's natural to be a little disappointed. A "so close but yet so far" type of thing--and the money it's worth or even the gas vs. duel fuel is not really the issue. Whether it was the above referenced Hotpoint you wanted and you ended up with a Magic Chef, or you had your heart set on gas and ended up with electric--the fact that it's a hugely expensive stove is not the issue here. You were hoping for one thing and got something else. I think that your reaction is completely natural, and I think that you are getting over it--also completely natural. Like any other disappointment in life, you deal with it and move on. You just had a "moment" and shared it with the group, some of whom took it in stride and some who decided that it was a monetary issue, and that you don't have the right to be disappointed in something that expensive. :-) However, I think the best piece of advice that you received is to live with it awhile, put it through it's paces, and if it's really not performing the way you wanted it to, and you can afford it, swap it out for something that's closer to what you wanted. If I understand correctly, the dual fuel Wolf you wanted is not going to fit in the space you have anyway, so you might as well see if you can make this one work. As others have pointed out, the resale value is not going to change much between now and later, so you might as well give it a go.

Good luck,
Cj

This reminds me of the thread where I asked if anyone knew much about a Molteni. I got 400 "you suck and you should die cuz you want a nice range" answers, and finally two great answers from chefs who'd worked with the range. Sheesh guys get a grip

So anyhoo, I'd be in the same boat...less on the duel fuel issue but more on the griddle grill thing. I hate grills in the house (they do not preform to the same level as our big green egg) so to me, I'd have a wasted spot sitting there on the stove that could be burners. I also am not a huge fan of griddles because I only make pancakes once a year or so...and don't "griddle" much else. So I'd be looking at that thing and thinking of a way to get rid of it right away because it's a waste of space given the style of cooking I do.

Anyhoo, on the issue, I'd wager you can get about half of it's value now if it's in good shape. Put it on Craigs list and I guarantee you'll see some results. Many people do like these stoves.

Heck I used to collect VW's :oP And I always think Audi's break down and cost too much to repair LOL so I do understand your analogy. :) If I were you...I'd save your penny's and then put the thing up for sale when you're ready to swap out.

And on the miele...consider doing a coffee station in the master suite (if there is room). I regret I didn't work one into ours...but we didn't have the room. I love the idea of a simple beverage station (coffee and cold drinks) in the master suite. :o)

Man people--give this girl a break.

She is disappointed because a house that is otherwise fine doesn't have her "dream" stove, but it is only a tiny disappointment. Read her post for Pete's sake.

If I wanted a large jetted tub and had always dreamed of a large jetted tub and found a great house that was near perfect for my family but walked into the master bathroom and saw that it had a nice sized tub that was long and deep but NO jets--I would be disappointed. But, it wouldn't be a deal breaker. And if I wrote a post on the bathroom forum that I was disappointed that my new tub had no jets, I doubt that I would be accused of conspicuous consumption.

Dipsy--use this stove for a few years, save up your bucks and replace it with the 48" dual fuel Wolf (if that is what you think you want at that time). If the kitchen is otherwise really nice, I wouldn't tear into the cabinets to put the wall oven in. And if I had the built in Miele coffee machine--Oh my goodness, I might learn to love coffee!

Enjoy your new home--and don't let any of the bad blood here take the joy out of the experience-life is too short. My gosh, some of the people here act like they really know the people on the other end of the keyboard. They might really be ashamed of themselves if they found out that the person they are berating is someone they might really like in real life.

Red_Lover, you reminded me of the friend who said we were nuts to replace the large jetted tub in our new (to us, anyway) house's master bathroom. We saw it as old and in need of replacement and an obstacle to increasing the size of the shower. When we explained our rationale, she apologized for using the word "nuts" and admitted she might have expressed herself better. She saw the new shower and smaller tub last week and said "too bad it wasn't like that when you bought the house." I just nodded my head.

I think it ironic that in a forum full of threads touting the latest, greatest, most perfect, can't live withouts and of course you should get whata you wants that the OP has gotten this flack. Every home has it's compromises, even if you build it from scratch, and this one's happen to be in the kitchen.

I'd probably feel the same way. While I like the look of ranges, I would want wall ovens becauase I am tall and have back and neck troubles. I do bake a lot and the low ovens would be a problem. For me, I would have to at least think about whether it would be a deal killer. I guess some of you think that would make me an even worse person than the OP, but a range kitchen might not make the cut for me. But we did redo our kitchen and don't plan a move, so I won't face that issue.

lascatx - People objected to dipsy's comments for various reasons. Here was mine:

"I'm not insinuating that AG is a cheap way to get a brand name, I believe it IS a cheap way to get a brand name."

Just like you have a legitimate (non-financial) preference for wall ovens while others may prefer a range, I think we can agree that some people might have a legitimate (non-financial) preference for gas versus dual fuel. The above statement turned a dipsy's comments from pointless to condescending.

Financial or not, we all have our reason for picking what we do, and it seem that on most threads folks can say they like something better and have others differ in opinion without it turning so ugly.

All gas is less expensive -- it has less components and costs less to build. That doesn't make it cheaper or a lesser product. It is better for some folks, not for others. I wouldn't call any of them cheap, but holy mole, I wouldn't start a battle over it either. I'm secure in my choices and only have to enjoy them -- not defend them.

I think this entire thread if nothing else, illustrates the folly of choosing elements of a kitchen redo solely with an eye on "resale value". During my process of "auditioning" general contractors for my kitchen job, I sent several packing when they dared to question my choices as "too far out there" or resale killers. I'm doing my kitchen for me, and I haven't the patience or imagination to try to predict the preferences of some hypothetical future homebuyer. I plan to be here for 10 yrs or more, and by then, my kitchen will be at least 10 yrs ol and any future buyer, despite the high end features of this house, may very well choose to gut the entire space, or even 'doze the whole house and start over.

OK, so the OP was a tad impolitic in her derision of the existing range in her new house. But it obviously wasn't a deal-killer. I've had lots to complain about initially in any new-to-me house I've ever moved into, but I've either learned to live with them, or changed them.

I just hope the seller of that house chose the appliances in his/her kitchen to please himself/herself, not to please a future buyer.

Look at the bright side dipsy, this should not happen to yours.

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

Here is a link that might be useful: oh no! beeping!