If you are willing to spend $2000+? I would say without hesitation Miele. There are some Bosch units that I think offer good bang for the buck but if you are willing to spend $2000 then Miele all the way. There is not a higher quality made dishwasher on the market, period. Anything else is a compromise. And don't even get me started on CR.

See its funny everyone here loves Miele. I had a $500 kenmore which got everything spotless with no issues at all, or pre rinsing, or using special detergent.

If Miele is so good why do they only offer a 1 year warranty standard? Why not 3 or 4 since they are the "best". You can search posts on here from people who have issues with Miele dishwashers just like any other dishwasher. I typically only buy the best of everything, but I can't swallow the Miele pill. Not to mention the price protection on those things are silly. At least with bosch or kitchen aid you can get on sale.

I need 2 new dishwashers for my kitchen and I think i am going to go with a couple of Bosch or a kitchenaid if the price is right. Bosch has awful racks but since I'll have 2 of them space isn't really an issue.

i just got a new bosch shx58e15uc. i had a 7 year old one that i couldn't use in remodel. the racks have changed for the better! not sure why but it is much easier to load. and we love the 3rd rack for silverware. i would recommend that on any new dw. better use of space.

in the corner....Consumer Reports........in this corner.....GW users.......

My money is on GW

Love my Miele Optima (2006/07 model)!

Its not a consumer reports vs GW type thing. I have bought may products with good CR recommendation, and have been completely disappointing. Its well know that CR isn't the best at rating high end anything.

But seriously maybe someone can help me understand why a $2k DW is truly better in the real world than a $500 or even $1k DW when they both clean dishes really well and have similar efficiency ratings. Other than being able to say i have the most expensive (which is fine if your into that). I'm not even sure why there are LEDs in the Meile's now.

My annoyance with CR is that they do not disclose water quality, temperature, detergent, or dosage. I have no idea how they came up with the variability in cleaning they reported.

My own 40-year-long experience with many, many machines is that they ALL work just fine....unless something's wrong with them. They all do the same thing the same way. There are differences in room, loading, noise, etc. but cleaning-wise they're all good -- if they're working like they're supposed to.

"Like they're supposed to" means proper fill-level; temperature boost to 120F or above; clear drain-path; clear spray-arms; appropriate detergent dose; working control module. In other words a properly installed and operating machine. Whether cheap or expensive, such a machine will clean your dishes wonderfully.

johntex,

In brief:
In case your dishwasher selection process possibly includes your considering a Fisher-Paykel dishwasher, I weighing-in. I want to save you from a mistake. Fisher-Paykels are wonderful dishwashers, but they are problematic. I love my Fisher-Paykel. I hate my Fisher-Paykel. I am renovating my kitchen and I am buying a Miele Futura.

In Detail:
I have a dual-drawer Fisher-Paykel unit. It is the second Fisher-Paykel that I have owned. About nine years ago, I bought my first Fisher-Paykel. It worked great and having the two drawers was terrific because even if the one drawer was running, I always had another drawer in which to put dirty dishes. Two drawers are especially great when I have guests because the "fast" cycle takes only forty-nine minutes. I could put in dishes used during the time we had cocktails and\or the first course and those dishes were clean and, if necessary, available for use when serving dessert, etc.

But... when the dish drawers close, a watertight seal needs to be made between the door and the chassis. In the original Fisher-Paykel units, that seal was accomplished by raising the dish drawers slightly to press the closed drawers against a rubber gasket. That raising was accomplished using actuator motors in each drawer. However, the actuator motors were very sensitive and if someone (like my maid) pulled on a drawer when the drawer was running without first pressing the "pause" button, the actuator motors could become damaged. This happened about four times over the life of the drawers. Repairing the actuator motors cost about $250 a drawer. So finally, when the dish drawers were about five years old, the actuator motors broke yet again and I decided to get a new dishwasher.

I ended up getting another Fisher-Paykel because, by that time, the company had changed the way that the water-tight seal is made. Their current dishwashers have an inflatable gasket on the roof of each dish-drawer inside the machine. When a dish drawer closes, the gasket inflates to make the water-tight seal. If a dish drawer is accidentally pulled open while the unit is in the middle of a cycle, no problems occur. I actually sought out a store where a Fisher-Paykel was hooked up so that I could test pulling out the drawer in mid-cycle. And, as the company rep told me, the drawer was not damaged and pressing the "resume" button re-started the cycle.

But... the dish drawers are very sensitive to power blips. After a power blip, I sometimes have to turn off the circuit breaker for thirty minutes and then, hopefully, the dish drawer will restart. However, sometimes the drawer will starting beeping every so often until I turn the circuit breaker off overnight. Other times, I will play with the buttons and push the power button then the start button and then it starts working. My career is in the technology field. I am very patient with electronic devices and, like many "techies", I feel that I can make anything work. (In some weird way, I almost like devices that seem too complicated for most people.) But the Fisher-Paykel has become even too much for me. And I have certainly tried to resolve the problems with the drawers. I have called the company a few times and they have basically agreed that the problems I have are known issues. However, the "fixes" they have given me do not work as easily as they suggest. At times, I have had to transfer dishes from the top drawer to the bottom drawer because the top drawer would just not work. Then a day later, for no reason that I can understand, the top drawer works again.

I am, for a homeowner, now a near expert in these drawers. I know how to take them apart to check for water underneath the drawers. There is a sensor that disables the drawers if there is water in the pan below that contains the circuitry. (With my old dish drawers, I used to have to disassemble the drawers and dry this area with a blow dryer when somehow water leaked there.) I have read the manual many times and know every programming option in total detail. And I doubt there is anyone that loves his or her Fisher-Paykel dish drawers more than I. But these Fisher-Paykel dish drawers are just too problematic. I am totally renovating my kitchen and, much to my regret, I am going to give up my beloved dish drawers and get a Miele Futura. And lest you think that i just have a "lemon." I know others here in Miami who also have the same problems that I do with their Fisher-Paykel units.

At least I will now be able to wash taller glass vases. That is one thing I miss being able to do with my Fisher-Payels.

Rob

Rob,

I have to say, you have given incorrect information.

OLDER DishDrawer models (DD/DS601 and DD/DS602) used an inflating seal.

NEWER models from DD/DS603 to the current use a lid with integral seal. The lid is moved down by two motors (one at either side of the drawer) to press the seal against the rim of the drawer, and of course it's raised to unseal and clear the rim for opening the drawer.

In NO CASE does the drawer itself rise up to meet the seal.

Also, just to say for the record ... and of course others may have a different experience ... my DD603 is 1 month shy of 8 years old and has not needed any repairs.

F&P now offers a DishDrawer Tall version (the upper drawer is deeper to take taller items and larger-diameter plates), and a DishDrawer Wide (single-drawer unit, 36" wide instead of 24"). Racking has been improved with fold-down dividers and height-adjustable side shelves.

dadoes,

Regarding, the drawers raising versus the lid lowering, I said that backwards so thank you for correcting my misstatement. In terms of the gasket inflating versus the motors lowering the lid, I have never replaced the gasket or the motors myself, so I base that info only what my Fisher-Paykel certified repairman tells me. Right now, I have Fisher-Paykel model DD24DDFTX6. I thought that the gasket inflated, but I guess I am wrong. Although, it sure feels like a gasket that inflates when I feel it with my hand. But maybe it is again using motors.

The top dish drawer is taller that the bottom dish drawer. (In my original dish drawer, the drawers were the same height.) But the taller drawer is still not tall enough for anything larger than a big plate. For example, a flower vase of any size cannot be washed in the dish drawer.

You are very fortunate that you have no problems with your dish drawers. And, as I wrote, if the dish drawers worked the way that they are supposed to work and the way that they are apparently working for you, I would love them. But the drawers, based on my almost ten years of experience, are problematic. (I guarantee that no appliance repairman, if he feels safe in giving his candid opinion, will ever recommend Fisher Paykel dish drawers.)

In these forums, I often read posts where one person loves an appliance and another person has nothing but problems with it. And that is always confusing to me. For anyone reading this series of posts who is considering buying a Fisher-Paykel dish drawer, consider that I have bought two Fisher-Paykel dishwashers, but that I am not buying a third. And also consider, that to make a water-tight seal, EACH dish drawer has TWO motors (or two inflatable gaskets.) Think about that. In a two-drawer Fisher-Paykel unit, there are either FOUR motors or two inflatable gaskets that are designed to do nothing but produce water-tight seals for the drawers. (These motors and gaskets have nothing to do with the mechanics of actually washing the dishes.) Compare that sealing system to a normal front-loading dishwasher where the door has a simple gasket that requires no motors to make a water-tight seal. The dish drawers are just too overly complicated. As I think about it, when I bought the dish drawers, the price of the dishwasher had to include the additional cost of the drawer sealing system versus that money going into mechanics\electronics that actually clean my dishes. The dish drawers do a fine job of cleaning dishes, but they are not advanced in terms of features or electronics like Miele, Bosch, KA and many other, similar higher-end brands.

Dadoes, I am sincerely happy that the dish drawers are working for you. Because when they work well, they are neat machines. And again, thank you for correcting my misstatements.

Rob

Rob, yes I am well-aware how the units work. Each drawer is a separate mechanism, so two drawers in a unitary cabinet duplicate the components ... except for a single two-solenoid water valve and one mains power board that carries the flood sensor. I have some experience working in appliance repair, and have service manuals for 601, 602, 603, 605, and DD24/60. Contact me via this board if you'd like a copy of the DD24 manual. :-)

I also have two F&P washing machines (11 years and 6 years old) and two dryers, one of which is the toploader model (6 years old) and the other is a GE-clone frontload model 11 years old so it doesn't so much count regards to F&P service expectations. Of the four F&P-built machines, none have had any breakdowns. As with ANY and ALL brands and models of appliances, other people will have unique usage experiences!

Johntex,

This afternoon, I called some friends who have just finished renovating their kitchen to find out what DW they used. They have a Bosch. They didn't know the model, but said it was top or near top of the Bosch line. They are totally pleased with the dishwasher and recommended Bosch highly. I asked them what other DW brands they considered. They said their son installed Bosch a couple of years ago and he thinks it is a great dishwasher so they just went with that. To give you an idea of the level of their kitchen, for other appliances, they have a SZ 36" refrigerator, a 36" SZ freezer and a La Cornue range. The refrigerator\freezer and SZ are totally integrated. The La Cornue is the appliance star of their kitchen.

After I read your post today, I renewed my subscription to Consumer Reports to read about the Miele. They give a $1,900 Miele DW a rating of "9". Wow, harsh. Now I am thinking about dropping the Miele Futura and going with Bosch... I know Consumer Reports most always trashes high-end appliances, but a "9" is so low it makes me think there is something really wrong there. The highest rating they give any Miele DW is 73. As you know, the Bosch's ratings range from 75 to 77. Why would Consume Reports even print a "9" rating? Maybe they have it out for Miele.

Rob

Interesting reading here of the problem that miamirob states with his Fisher Paykel top drawer. I just had a DD24DCTX6v2 installed and after the plumber left, couldn't get the top drawer to operate, when I wanted to test it's operation on rinse cycle. The bottom drawer worked, but the top drawer wouldn't. I called customer service at F/P and had a serviceman come out. When I asked what the problem was, he was unsure but said he checked all the connections and turned off the circuit breaker, let the machine reset and it was working when he left. That was Friday, and tonight I wanted to run the top drawer since I finally had enough dirty dishes to do a load and *again* the top drawer was not working (same problem). I had to move everything to the bottom drawer. This is a real bummer, and I am really doubting this machine will be a welcome (reliable) addition to my home.
I am not tech savy, nor do I have a bunch of money to throw at this thing. Is it to late to have Sears pick it up and replace with another brand?

We are currently remodeling and have had our kitchen aid for 30 years. It is now just old and getting worn out. We put our first KA in the basement and it still is working after about 40 years. Yes, they are noisy as compared to the new KA but we have never had a days trouble with either KA. We looked at many of the above mentioned but went with the top of the line KA. We did read through consumer reports too. We did look at the Bosch, but hubby does all of the loading and unloading of the dishes and he chose the KA over the Bosch because of the larger racks and the quality of the racks. We have always had the KA that had the disposer in the dishwasher as compared to the new KA and the Bosch which comes with the filter in the bottom. Some have said that these tend to keep odors because they don't go through the disposer...We will see. Many of the dealers loved the Bosch and some did not because of the odor that the left over food causes if left in the bottom. Yes it has to be cleaned out but they told us that usually there is no build up of food unless one does not somewhat rinse off large pieces of food from the dishes before loading. Sure hope this new KA compares to the older models and I think we all know that nothing is made like it used to be. I do know that this model of KA is considered one of the quietest on the market. I guess we will find out.

In our previous home we put in a Jenn Air. I loved it, never had a problem in 10 years. Great rack layout, and superb cleaning.

In our new home, we opted for a KA as it seems JA doesn't currently have good reviews. I honestly hate it. It was mid-range ($800+), and is the noisiest dw I've ever had. Groans loudly...I mean LOUDLY...can hear it all over the house. I was disapointed because it was rated as VERY QUIET. And it doesn't clean nearly as well as the old Jenn Air. It's a tall tub, and the door is so hard to open all the way. I literally have to lean on it to get it open completely. Can't wait to replace it.

MiamiRob ... reply undeliverable.

Happy to report F/P authorized technician just left. He replaced the circuit board on top drawer and it's operational. After having posted on the kitchen forum, someone suggested to check for codes. Although it was not announcing an error code, I tried re-programming top drawer to turn on when drawer was opened (the bottom drawer would do this) and was unable to accomplish. I mentioned this to the serviceman and he was not able to accomplish this either; from there he determined it was the circuit board that was weak and replaced it with a new one. So far, so good just did a load in the top drawer and squeaky clean dishes. So quiet too! Keeping my fingers crossed that the problem has been fixed.

Well everyone has their opinions and experiences. We remodeled Feb 2010 and replaced a noisey 12 year old WP with the disposal with a top of the line KA, I think it is the KUDE70SS, stainless steel model. First of all, it is super quiet. We have an open floor plan with large kitchen/great room area, and now we can run the DW anytime and we never hear it at all. Before, it was only used with the timer after we went to bed. Even the installer had to open the door to be sure it was running.

It took about two weeks to get the cleaning cycle and detergent down. We found that the Cascade all in one tabs work well for us. Dishes come out clean and we have no particles in the food trap, but we do rinse before we put the dishes in. We did this with the WP as well.

All in all we are very pleased and would not hesitate to recommend the product. YMMV.

Some people say that Miele DWs don't dry as well because they rely on residual heat and rinse-aid to dry, rather than have an electrical drying element. This saves on electricity but probably does not dry as well as more traditional appliances.

Several brands/models nowadays have a passive drying process.

I'm a little miffed that the high end DWs don't come with a hard food disposal. I was going to go with 2 bosch DWs 800Plus series with the 3rd rack, but i really don't want to have to maintain 2 filters.

I could be wrong, but I believe the benefit of eliminating the food grinder is an improved noise/sound level while the DW is running; no grinder=quieter washing.

As for cleaning the filters, not as big a deal as I had thought it would be. We do scrape our dishes, although sometimes not very well (esp if I'm about to run the DW--I get lazy!). I try to check the filter in our Miele (Optima) monthly, but sometimes go a couple months or longer w/out checking it. There is rarely (if ever) anything more than the smallest am't of grit at the very base of the filter basket. I rinse it under some running water, and pop it back into the DW. It's as easy as that.

I find the CR rating baffling. I have an Inspira, their entry level model from a few years ago. It is a wonderful machine. Everything gets clean, every time. Though it's their "loudest" model, it's very quiet. I have been more than pleased with it's performance. We've had it for almost a year. By the way, if your Miele appliance is installed by a Miele certified installer, your warranty is for two years.

Cj