I have to agree. I am a journeyman plumber and additionally have a great working knowledge of hydrodynamics. The height of the water level in the bowl is determined by the height of the bottom of the "throat" or "neck" tube at its highest- after the bowl. The bowl water when flushed, enters a tube. The tube curves upward above the waterline in bowl, and then back down and eventually to drain line. When water is still it rests up to the "floor" of the tube at its highest point. Any more water flows over the "tube floor" and down the drain. The only way to raise the bowl water is to somehow raise this tube - which is cast in the porcelain just as the rest of the toilet. I'm thinking - maybe - somehow place a block on this floor (now restricting water flow) and adding a tube at the "roof" of the tube, feeding up through and above the bowl to compensate for the loss of volume. We have two of these in our home, and as gorgeous as a toilet can be, they are full of sh*t.

We have two toilets installed with the G-Max system; the Promenade and the Clayton. I had planned on a Guinevere for our downstairs bath, but it means too much rework of the water supply line which comes up from the floor. We are so happy with the G-Max flush, we are getting a third for that bath as well. We are looking at the Carrollton, Dartmouth or Whitney - all G-Max. The Clayton went into our master bath and the Promenade is in our kids bath. Originally, the Promenade was in our Master, but had to be relocated due to the height clashing with a window sill behind the toilet. We used to have Kohler toilets that clogged constantly - cannot tell you how old they were. I was warned about the Soiree from a salesman, apparently it is the only toilet in the Toto line that has a different seat type than any other of their toilets. I was never really interested in it any way so never followed through to check out if it was true or what the differences are.

Well, I called down to the plumbing office... and sure enough, I'm wrong! I was thinking of the original AS Cadet, thus everything I said about it is about the original AS Cadet, not the "3" version, which is apparently a totally different animal. Siphon-jet, gravity-based, no expensive/failure-prone/noisy pressure-assist tank. They're still not real hot on American Standard 'though, but that comes from many in-field failures and lack of good quality control on others like the AS Champion toilet and some of their other plumbing fixtures, such as tubs & sinks. From what I'm told, AS has claimed several times that a toilet model was "Better than a Toto Drake", like their Champion toilet, but what they've seen in the field, especially with the leaking tanks, proves otherwise. I do find dchall's comments interesting and plan on doing a little excursion to the local home improvement store to take a look at this Cadet 3 toilet. AS switching to a gravity-based system with standard parts is a huge step in the right direction as far as I'm concerned, BUT, my AS Compact Elongated & AS Rennaisance toilets are gravity-fed and use standard parts and don't work worth a damn, BUT both of my AS toilets are washdowns and not siphon-jets, so I'm willing to give them a chance... BUT not in my bathroom -- both of my AS toilets will be replaced with Toto toilets. I'd rather pay more and get the real thing rather than skimp and get a knock-off of unknown quality. The Cadet 3 has been on the market for less than a year and their Champion toilets became rather problematic after the first 6 or so months. The one thing I'd be really curious about is the distance the AS Cadet 3 can move the waste down the waste pipe. I donated a few Toto Drake toilets to my church after they were calling Roto-Rooter every 3-4 months to unclog the lines. Previous toilets were 6 gallon models. Since the Drakes were installed in Feb, no clogs/backups have occured. Commercial-grade products and standards/codes *ARE* of higher quality/standards than residential. Electrical codes, structural engineering design, ventilation codes, and plumbing codes are all more strict and demanding for commercial applications than residential. In the case of toilets, this would be performance, durability, and weight-handling capacity. There's a reason that both AS & Toto list far fewer toilets for commercial applications than residential. This isn't dissimilar from being able to use 15-amp receptacles & Romex wire in houses whereas you must use 20-amp receptacles and hard-pipe conduit in commercial buildings. As far as the disclaimers go, they came about from homeowners buying $50-75 toilets @ Lowe's/HD and expecting the plumber to install them, then calling & complaining that the toilet was installed wrong b/c it didn't work like their old 6-gallon toilets did. This requiring a call-back, which ate more time & money, and of course, customers who were buying $50 toilets are going to complain even louder when you come out a 2nd time and have to charge them for the 2nd trip when there's nothing wrong with the install. Their $50 toilets are junk and there's nothing the plumber can do to make it work better. The disclaimer simply states, "I have been informed that not all low-flow toilets perform equally and wish to install something other than what ________ Plumbing has advised me of and that ________ Plumbing does not guarantee the performance of this toilet." Ever since coming up with that, the # of false callbacks have dropped to almost zero. As far as wanting to sell toilets (as I have been accused in the aforementioned link), my degree's in EE and do electronics design/engineering and currently going back to school to study medicine, my father's is in law, the plumbing business is simply an investment, not an occupation. My specific plumbing knowledge was taught to me by one of the plumbers and consists of "hot on left, cold on right, gas goes up, s**t goes down", said like a true plumber. The plumbing business really don't make THAT much on parts, however labor is billed at actual cost (~$100/hr) rather than a more appealing rate other plumbers charge ($65-75/hr) and 50% markup on parts. So, they sell a Drake for ~$220, Carusoe goes for ~$120. I doubt you'll be able to find them for much less than that. The high labor rate also tends to weed out the less-desirable clientelle who are most concerned about price and not quality or performance. They've worked on numerous repairs and renovations for the local 5-star resorts (I won't say which, but one of the resorts selected Toto Drake toilets and Speakman dual-head showerheads; most road-warriors probably know which chain this is), numerous 4-5 star restaurants, and plenty of high-end houses. At this level, performance is your reputation, NOT price. As a last parting shot :), the AS toilets are made in Central & South America, whereas most of the Toto toilets sold in the US are made in the US. Like I've said, I've had Totos in my other residence for 5 years now, used a plunger 0 times, no leaks/quality control issues. For my money and posterior, there shall be a Toto beneath it. I'll gladly pay more for a product I know will work the first time, every time.

Same trapway, same flush valve, but usage cut just a bit to 1.28 gallons. I've been installing the II's, like the Drake II and the Ultramax II, all working very nicely. We are starting to see the other II models, like the Vespin II, Carlyle II, Carolina II. Double Cyclone rinse, still using a 3" flush valve flush. I have the Ultramax II in my main bath. The Ultramax one is downstairs. Both of those have Sanagloss. Terry Love