Ah, be prepared for the onslaught of the true believers!

Some of your questions deserve answers from those who have had their ranges for a while. I'm one of the recent converts who can speak to the thought process leading to our order, a Cluny 1400 due in two weeks.

Burner options are unique on the LC and that was the main reason beyond the style issue that we chose it, more than the ovens for us. LC offers a range of standard options (and you can get custom configurations for an upcharge). On a Cluny, the standard configuration is:
two 15K burners
one 11K burner
one 5K simmer burner
You then get to choose what the center burner will be. Two choices: the Traditional, which is an 18K "French top." That may be a new concept (it was for us). It's a heavy steel plate heated by the burner underneath. Temperature control is achieved not by controlling the burner, but by moving pots closer or further to the (hotter) center of the plate. It's similar in concept to the original Aga, or to many commercial flattop ranges. It's a very different way of cooking which I am looking forward to playing around with. YouTube for videos if you are interested.

Other option is the Classique, which is a more typical, large diameter 18K open burner.

This flies in the face of the Bluestar "all burners are the same" concept. Some like it (I do) and others are annoyed by it. I'd argue that dedicated burners will outperform "do it all" burners. Yes, the BS 22K burner can be run low to simmer, but what if you're using a 6'' diameter pot to melt butter? The star configuration means that it will work but you'll be cooking the outside of the pot more than the contents.

There have been extensive arguments on this forum which I've been part of regarding how many BTU's are enough. For true stir fry afficianados, even 22K is probably lacking versus some of the induction hobs out there. Is 18K vs 22K a significant difference for most home cooks? I doubt it--look at the number of Wolf owners who are delighted with their 15K closed burners.

So...I think LC burners are a huge plus. Some unique options, great flexibility and plenty of heat, albeit not volcanic.

I'll wait for igloochic and pluckymama and chef marty etc to chime in on construction as they have their ranges in hand, but by all reports these are some of the best constructed ranges short of a true La Cornue or Molteni. Certainly will put a BS to shame--no exposed screws or sharp sheet metal edges here.

Initial calibration is simple (go to the frenchranges.com website and navigate to requests > Technical support > videos to see how some of this is done--but, as has recently been pointed out, if oven calibration etc is needed, Art Culinaire will send out a tech under warranty to do that.

Reliability should be superb, because it's such a simple range. It's really a throwback--no LEDs, electronic controls, rotating displays, etc to go bad. It's so simple than any appliance repair person should be able to service it. That, plus the initial build quality, should make it a lifetime investment.

Price--higher and higher as the dollar has dropped. A price increase is I believe just around the corner, if not already in effect, so get up there quick!

If you can really visit AC, I'm jealous. I'm one of many on GW that bought their LC sight unseen, based mainly on these threads. The AC folks, Chelsea in particular, are super helpful and their long term customer service has been praised here many times.

Go for it--so much more fun than a BS or Wolf!

Thanks for the response. As I was looking at the Lacanche, I did think that the classique was more of what I was looking for.

I do hope some owners post about reliability in the long run.

Another question: After spending this kind of money on a range, do folks take it with them if they move? :).

I'm sure some people with ranges like this take them with them. If you're going to do that and replace the range with something a lot less expensive, I would do the swap before you start showing the house.

A few corrections, an observation, and a differing opinion:

The Cluny has two 11K burners and one 15K burner, not the other way around. The BlueStar burners are not all the same. The standard four-burner configuration is two 22K, one 15K and one 10K simmer burner. But the purchaser can specify any configuration they like. Ours has one 22K, two 15K and one 10K. The 10K burner has a smaller flame pattern that, in my experience, works very with pans as small as 5.5".

If you think you might want to take the Lacanche when you move and leave a less expensive range in its place you'll have an interesting design challenge because the Lacanche sizes are non-standard. I designed our kitchen with that in mind and it paid off when we recently replaced our 27" wide Lacanche Cormatin with a 24" wide BlueStar.

Which brings me to a differing opinion. I cooked for three years on the Cormatin and I've now cooked for about a month on the BlueStar and I think the BlueStar is a lot more fun. But that's just one person's opinion.

velodoug, just read your post with great interest -- as you have actually cooked on both BlueStar and Lacanche. Would you please expand on your comments -- you said your thought BlueStar was more fun. Is this because of the higher BTU's? All of us in tiny cities that don't carry BlueStar, Lacanche, or much of anything besides GE, Wolf and Viking are so appreciative of input like yours!

velodoug is correct in that if you want to take your Lacanche range with you someday when you move, you should design your kitchen with the Lacanche's non-standard size in mind. A Cluny is 40 inches, so you would need to design with a replacement of a 36 inch, in mind.

One correction regarding the Cluny burner configuration. velodoug, actually gave the Cormatin burner configuration in it's place. The Cluny has (1)18K, (1)15K, (2)11K and (1)5 K.

Since you live driving distance from Art Culinaire, I would suggest you call Chelsea and make an appointment to see and learn about the Lacanche ranges. Those of us who have them on order, would love to hear back from you about your time there.

I think the first decision you have to make is whether you want a handmade French range or a prostyle range. All three of the ranges you are considering are good ranges. They are very different from each other. As you read through the GW threads on each, it will become clearer to you as to which range is right for you.

We picked the Lacanche and then planned our kitchen around it. It become the centerpiece. We liked the fact that it was a basic, handcrafted, range that any appliance technician could repair. That Art Culinaire stands behind their product. That most of the people we spoke to who owned one were very pleased with their purchase. We also fell in love with it's beauty.

Velodoug's comment was interesting. I was sold on the BlueStar until I read all the posts about quality issues. I was then set on Wolf - when I decided to research the Lacanche. Velodoug - could you post as to why you think the BlueStar was more fun to cook on please?

I may be oversimplifying it - but so far, other than bling (and serious bling) - I am not finding many compelling reasons ( and yes, a good range with 2 ovens - as the others with 2 ovens are 48" and wider; There are 4 other brands that do have 36" wide ranges with double ovens - that dont quite work for me - for many reasons).

Just for curiosity - how much has the Cluny increased in cost (in USD) in the last couple of years? That's one thing I notice on the forum - there are few posts with the cost of a Lacanche. I had to call in for a brochure to actually find out!

I've repeatedly posted the cost of our Cluny 1400: about $13K at the beginning of the summer. If you're interested in prices, you can get some idea by going to the AC website and looking through their "Early Arrivals" (under the Requests tab). There you'll see for example that a Cluny in a non-base color is running $10,275. For other models not listed you'd need to contact AC.

I think there is a gene that predisposes to Lacanche ownership. For most of us who've taken the leap, it was an almost instant "I have to have that" response. It's the opposite of my usual painstaking comparative research approach to most of the purchases I made for our renovation.

If you don't have that "genetic" response to seeing a LC range, then it likely will be hard to justify the costs. To me, a Lacanche is the opposite of "bling." Bling is trendy, transient, evanescent, and of little intrinsic value. Lacanches are "classic"--they have been around a long time with very little change, which to me suggests time-proven lasting value.

Sure, the look is a huge part of the appeal, but it's a look driven by artful colors and wonderful craftsmanship, not the fact that some cooking magazine has annointed it "the range of the moment."

We can debate the technical attributes of a LC versus a BS endlessly, but if the exposed screws and sharp metal edges don't bother you, the "generic" look of a pro-style range works fine for you, and you don't feel your heart pound when you look at a picture of "your" LC range, then I'd agree totally that it is not a purchase that makes sense for you.

Don't get me wrong. I still think the Lacanche is a beautiful and very capable range. We moved our Cormatin into what was to have been our retirement house, and then received such a high offer for the little house that we had no choice but to sell it, with the Lacanche.

The BlueStar was DW's choice for a replacement. It reminds her of the Garland range in the house where she grew up. My comment about fun is all down to the star shaped burners of the BlueStar with the flames that go straight up. The performance has to be experienced to be believed.

We were fortunate that the design of our little kitchen worked well with the Lacanche that would be perfectly at home in a French country home, and it now works well with the BlueStar that would be perfectly at home in a restaurant kitchen.

Hydrangea: Here is a a copy of a post I made in the 'Part 37' thread. Hope it helps.

Lacanche two-year report

We have had our burgundy Cluny, "Julia," for nearly two years now. This forum was a great help at the time, so I thought I would pass on what our experience has been.

First, how we cook and what kind of stove we were looking for. We dont bake a lot of cookies and such. When we do bake it is usually cake or pie. We do make bread and a lot of pizza. We like to feed our friends and on a scale of 1 to 10 on the "IÂm not a professional chef, but I play one at home" I would rate us an 8-9. We wanted a stove that had enough oomph to sear, not steam food. It should look great. We definitely did not want something in stainless. It needed to have two ovens. We also wanted something less prone to problems. We have friends with a Viking that seemed to give them a lot of trouble and the tech support seemed lacking. IÂm not saying this is true of all Viking stuff, just my friendÂs. We know there are more powerful, cheaper and equally reliable stoves on the market, but the Cluny was a perfect match for what we wanted.

We ordered, sight unseen. Art Culinaire was good to work with except the pause in contact that everyone seems to have after the initial sign of interest. I donÂt know what this is about, but perhaps by now they have that fixed.

Our stove arrived on ValentineÂs Day and was installed the same day. We hired some movers to drag it from the garage to the kitchen. I could have done this myself with the help of a friend, but it seemed prudent to get two guys with lifting equipment.

I installed the rest. Very straightforward and doable by most DIYers.

We cooked a great V. Day meal.

Okay. From the top to the bottom.

The stainless steel top is easy to clean. I use soap and water followed by some variety of stainless cleaner. Going with the grain is a bit of a pain, but I only clean it this hard once a month. The brass burner tops can be cleaned, if you care, with BartenderÂs Helper if you scrub hard. When you get your stove, photograph the brass tops. They will never look like that again. The bottom portion of the burners can be cleaned the same way. I have tried other methods such as the dishwasher and even oven cleaner, but you just have to use muscle power.

We have the French top. We use it a lot less than we thought we would. Even with the burner set to low, it eventually gets too hot for a low simmer. We do, however, use it to keep stuff warm when we are cooking large meals. It also makes a terrific landing spot. When we first had it, we were instructed to season it like a cast iron pan. I suspect the only reason for this is to keep rust at bay. If it gets wet, it rusts. Easy enough to clean off though.

The burners are perfect. We donÂt cook with a wok much, but when we do the center, 18k burner provides more than enough power. The small burner is great for simmering. The other big burner, 15k, on the right can keep water boiling as you ad pasta, something my old stove could never accomplish.

The only annoying thing about the grill is that you need to use these little pan trivets if you use a small pan. Seems like they could have designed this better.

Two of my burners needed to be adjusted to simmer lower. Art Culinaire provided instructions for doing so. It was very simple to adjust.

We bought the griddle and grill pans. They came as a "buy one, get the other one free" deal. The grill is still in the box. If someone wants to buy it let me know. We use the BBQ. The griddle is good once you get used to it. It is F**ing heavy and it takes a while to get the temperature where you want it. I would just get a lighter weight one from a kitchen store.

The Ovens:

We have one gas and one, non-convection electric oven with broiler.

Oven size:
The ovens will take a half sheet pan lengthwise. When we do bake cookies we use two sheet pans and rotate them halfway through the cooking time. If you make a lot of cookies, this just may not work for you. You will probably want convection and a larger oven. This oven works just dandy for us.

Cooking a 20 pound turkey:
(Okay, we never really roast birds that big, but we typically do a 13 pounder.)
We have an all-clad 16"x13"x3" roasting pan. You put a turkey in it and it fits, just like the picture on Art CulinaireÂs web site. BUT Â grabbing the rear handle of the roaster requires some dexterity. The oven shelf is pushed back to its farthest position for the roaster to fit. The shelf does not just glide out. What we do is pull the roaster out until it is just about to fall off the shelf, then carefully grab the rear handle. We cook a turkey about twice a year, so for us this is not an impediment. There is a similar experience when using our large La Creuset pan.

We bought two pizza stones from Willy-Sonoma. They are rectangular and thick. Do not buy those thin things from other places. They always crack. We find putting them on the second to lowest oven shelf provided the best results. We turn both ovens to max. (Just an FYI for pizza makers. Like most people, we put corn meal on the peel to slide the pizza in. It works but always leaves a huge mess. Recently, we used parchment paper instead. I pull it out from under the pizza about half way through. Very tidy!)

The broiler works great. We donÂt broil that often. We live in San Diego, so any broiling to be done is usually on the BBQ.

Oven Cleaning:
Take out all the stainless shelves and shelf guides. Spray with oven cleaner. Wait. Wipe. This is so not a big issue for us. We clean them every 4 months. I remember my previous, almost self-cleaning oven. It never did a very good job, and always left me uneasy with the heat it produced.

I donÂt miss having a window. You could never see through them any way (see note about almost self-cleaning above)

I DO miss an oven light. Of all the things I could imagine complaining about, this is weird to me, yet it is so. You canÂt see the top of the pizza.

In general, I would say the ovens are quite adequate, with the two exceptions of making large batches of cookies often and if you wish to cook a dinoturkeysouras. When we go to a friendÂs for dinner, it is interesting to see the huge amount of space around whatever they are cooking in their oven. I like the ClunyÂs efficiency in this regard. I get two useful ovens in less than 48" of stove width.

The drawers under the ovens work okay. I do a lot of woodwork, and the glides they use are not exactly top of the line but shouldnÂt break.

Ventilation:

We live in a home built in 1959. There is a hole in the ceiling over the stove that leads outside. We were planning a remodel, but our old stove died before we could do the remodel (in fact we are still waiting.) Rather than buy an interim stove we just bought the Cluny. The stove is next to our back door, which is usually open when we cook. Yesterday we had Thanksgiving (everyone was out of town for real Thanksgiving) We had both ovens on and used all burners. This puppy puts out a huge quantity of heat. I cannot imagine using it without ventilation. We will be using a 900cfm VAH when we do remodel.

In general, we are totally thrilled with our stove and the decision to purchase it. Julia is a thing of great beauty and elegant simplicity. She has fulfilled our expectation completely. WellÂexcept for that oven light.

Hi clinresga,

I'm a bit confused and wanted to ask you a stupid question. I'm ready to order my stove this week but looking at the price brochure and reading your comment above; Does the center burner cost extra or any of the burners for that matter? I noticed as well that the price list brochure has burners listed with prices so I am really curious about this and a bit nervous hoping that I don't have to also add burner prices to my current cost. Thank you!

My experience is that the price quoted for the range includes the "standard" choices: in the case of a Cluny for example, you get the choice of the Traditional French top or the Classique 18K burner. You then get the "standard" configuration of burners, which as pluckymama posted above, consists of:
(1)15K, (2)11K and (1)5 K burner. I don't believe there is any upcharge for these.

There is the ability to customize by using any combination of burners that LC makes: that would be an upcharge. I believe the prices you're referring to may be for that (I never got the brocure you're describing).

I can't offhand remember which stove you're ordering. The standard configurations are the ones that you get if you go to the AC website, choose your range, click on the picture of the range, and then click on "configurations". This will give you the "standard" burner config. Obviously check with Chelsea as she'll be the truly reliable source.

HTH: we'll all excited to follow your progress!

clinresga

Thank you for getting back to me with the info, very helpful to me before calling Chelsea. I Ordered my STOVE today! Yeaaaaaaaaa. I ordered One Cluny! LOL It would have been one of each color if I had my way. LOL Color Marron Glace with Brushed S/S, in Classique. Which turns out is also Chelsea's favorite combo as she has it in the showroom. Chelsea said burners are extra cost if one wanted more than 5 on the bigger stoves only. I was glad to hear that. So I have a bit of a wait due to the French holiday. Mine will be delivered in November. Thanks again clinresga!

Congratulations, terry4sams. I never heard of Lacanche until I read these posts today and then looked at their website. In addition to the posts describing their excellent performance, the Lacanche looks stunningly handsome.

YES! Another one bites the dust!

Marron Glace was our other favorite color. I think it's gorgeous. I am very excited for you. Our renovation continues to struggle along but we are still on schedule for delivery before the dreaded August holiday but you're not too far downstream and I can't wait to compare pictures.

terry4sams, I am so excited for you. Welcome to the Lacanche family :) The Marron Glaze is going to be so beautiful. I can't wait to see it. So tell, me what through you over the edge of the Lacanche cliff?

polie;-)
Nice to meet you and thanks for the congrats!

clinresga, LOL And boy does it feel good to. I have my little Marron Glace Square Sample Chelsea let me keep. She said to have fun with it until I get my stove. LOL Boy I just love fondling that little square. Does France take ALL of Aug off? Has France shipped your stove yet?

pluckymama, Thank you. It feels wonderful to be part of the lacanche family. It's so special. I have learned so much here. I've been looking at stoves for a few years now. Thank goodness I didn't by a viking. I can't even believe I was even thinking of it at one time. I owned one for 7 years and hated it. I don't remember how I found Lacanche but I'm sure glad I did. I adore everything about it. I'd say I just fell in love with the little French Gem! It's funny how appliances will do that. LOL

But especially everyone here has been so helpful and wonderful and from the bottom of my heart I THANK YOU! Photo's are so much fun to see. It really does help to make a decision to buy. I bought site unseen and I could have taken a few days and drove to Washington to see the stoves but didn't find it necessary. And your right on the customer service of Art Culinaire. The excellent service makes all the difference on whether I will buy as well.

Chelsea sent me a photo of the stove I'm ordering since it's her favorite as well and she has it in her showroom, but I don't know how to post it here. I will try and figure it out. I read some things on how to do it but it was a bit confusing. I will keep trying.

Thank you again clinresga, pluckymama and chef-marty, you guys have been wonderful and fun.

Just read somewhere else your stove is on it's way, FANTASTIC!! I am so excited for you!

Yup, in transit according to AC. Pix forthcoming when we uncrate. The 800 lb steel beam that we have been waiting for now for over three weeks is supposedly going to be installed by the end of today so we're getting there. Hopefully we'll be at the point where we can move the range right in when it arrives.

Fantastic. I'm really intrigued by this beam you're mentioning. Sounds like a beautiful kitchen you're doing, definitely can't wait to see it.

Better be, after all this! Pix soon.

In a previous post clinresga wrote:

"We can debate the technical attributes of a LC versus a BS endlessly, but if the exposed screws and sharp metal edges don't bother you, the "generic" look of a pro-style range works fine for you, and you don't feel your heart pound when you look at a picture of "your" LC range, then I'd agree totally that it is not a purchase that makes sense for you."

I agree that the look of the Lacanche is incredible and certainly timeless. It did indeed make my heart pound with that "got to have it" pang at first sight. However, cooking performance is ultimately more important to me than looks (within reason of course).

The few times I actually did get to talk to Art Culinaire, I engaged them in an indepth interview focused heavily on performance and they, in substance, spent a lot of time rationalizing as to how the average peformance of the LC cook surface was compensated for by look and design. I was seriously considering the then SULLY 2+2 so much so that its rough deminsions were the initial ones provided to the cabinet shop during the layout stages. As I was early in the game, BS was not even in my sights yet but, as mentioned on another post, I could never get the folks at AC to send me the info packages and color samples they promised on numerous occasions even after repeated emails and phone calls.

In the interim, Bluestar did enter the picture. While certainly no match for the classic beauty of Lacanche, it became over whelmingly evident that Lacanche was, by an equal margin, no match for Bluestar's performance. My first upper end range was a Wolf with 16K burners. While it performed well enough, I was at times disappointed in its top end performance and power (once I got used to it) and Lacanche's delivered range top performance was marginally comparable with Wolf but its beauty was indeed breath taking making it a true contender. However, the LC was no match for the exceptional power delivered by Bluestar once it entered the picture so looks started to lose its luster a bit. Similar to your comments regarding the predisposed genes necessary to justify the look of Lacanche, if you do not have the same predisposition for cooking performance, then Bluestar may not be your cup of tea in that venue.

My perfect solution would be Bluestar performance with Lancanche (or LeCornue for that matter) looks and styling. However, that was not available. IMHO, my Bluestar and its peer group are a handsome enough bunch and not rudimentary hunks of sheet metal.

I guess in the end what turns my crank more at the end of a meal I have labored over is to hear "That was an exceptionally exquisite and perfectly prepared meal and you have a very nice range" as opposed to "That was a very nice meal and your range is exceptionally exquisite and perfect to look at." And for some of the dishes I prepare, it takes all of the power BS can deliver to achieve the results I am looking for in that dish.

breezy: we meet again! Just finished replying to your ventilation post.

I agree: I think you summarize the LC/BS debate quite well. I don't think anyone will deny the superior heat of a BS: 22K trumps 18/15/11/5 etc. I might make an argument about performance at the low end (i.e. simmering at extremely low heat with a small pan--yes star burners are better than round burners in accomodating small pots, but the outer edges of the star burner will still overheat the outside of the pan and the handle versus a truly dedicated simmer burner--and that doesn't address the possibilities of the French top) but overall I'd concede on that.

I'm sure you remember the recent "are more BTU's really better" and the "professional ranges are not for home kitchens" threads. I think both sides are correct. Extremely high BTU's clearly make some things (searing, stir frying) easier especially for the home cook. Conversely a good chef can do wonders on about anything, as my friend the professional chef/restaurant owner demonstrated repeatedly on on his 20 year old electric stove.

I guess what motivates me is not so much what other folks think of me or my kitchen but what gives me pleasure. It's not a BS but the LC will certainly far outperform anything I've had the opportunity to cook on. At the same time I derive real pleasure from working with something that is just "right"--designed elegantly, built well, and delightful to look at, handle, and use.

I am a stuck record with this analogy, but it is the difference between driving a Nissan GTR--a hunk of pure technology that can outperform a Porsche Turbo for half the price, but is ugly as sin--versus driving a Maserati Gran Turismo. The Maserati won't keep up with the GTR, and costs $30K more, but for some of us, just looking at or sitting in one would provide more pleasure than knowing that if I lived in Germany I could go 0 to 100 in 8.5 seconds in the GTR (which is darn impressive!).

I slow cook brown rice in a 1-1/4 qt. Le Creuset cast iron saucepan.

On the Lacanche, I started by putting the little trivet gadget on one of the 11K burners and a heat diffuser on the simmer burner and turning on the simmer burner as low as it would go. I brought the uncovered pan of water and rice to a boil with a medium flame on the 11K burner and then covered it and moved it to the simmer burner to finish cooking. I had to use the trivet because the opening between the legs of the grate was too big for the little pan. I couldn't use more than a medium setting because the flames came up around the sides of the pan. I had to use the heat diffuser because otherwise the simmer burner boiled the pan too fast.

On the BlueStar, I put the uncovered pan of water and rice on the simmer burner running wide open. The grate supports the pan nicely. The small circle of flame goes straight up and no flames go around the sides. It comes to a boil faster than it did on the Lacanche. Then I simply cover the pan and turn the simmer burner down to just a bit above the lowest setting to finish cooking. It actually simmers too slowly at the lowest setting.

In this particular application the BlueStar outperforms the Lacanche hands down

clinresga, yes indeed we meet again and it is always a pleasure!

I agree with so much of your response and on many different levels not the least of which that you can accomplish almost anything with what you have. A truly good cook views equipment limitations more as challenges than limitations and makes do. I have cooked on what, lets agree, are higer end units for only the last 6-7 years or so. For the 35-40 years preceding that, I feel I did quite well with what I had available and that ranged from coil electric to my first Magic Chef gas range which I thought I had died and gone to heaven over. To digress a bt (which too many here know I am prone to do) but I will never forget our first brand new house. It was a spec house in a nice neighborhood but did not have the range installed yet. The builder told me to pick out "whatever I wanted". I proceeded to the appliance store and picked out GE's TOL white enamel Gold Series gas range that boasted a 14K (let me emphasize ("A") power burner. Well pin a medal on my chest and declare me the flame thrower of the neighborhood as I complimented that burner! Improvising did not begin with nor isit limited to these higher end units.

One thing I must continue to take considerable exception to is that, although I will concede that the LC may be the Bentley of its cooking class in terms of styling, I consider the Bluestar et al. in the Mercedes Benz or BMW class and I categorically disagree if your analogy is that they are merely "ugly as sin" Nissan versions of cooking machines with power.

In response to velodoug's comments, I have not cooked on an LC and have no first hand experience but I will agree that the simmer cpapbility of the BS has been amazing to me. I actually rank the 15K burner as overall simmer king even above the dedicated simmer unit. Much like velodoug, I really like having the simmmer burner for some of my tiniest little pots/pans and not necessarily the low BTUs it delivers.

Again, always enjoy the interaction. Enjoy your Sunday and God Bless!