Consumer Reports Toilet Reviews-American Standard & Kohler On Top
blondelle
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sevenecho
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Consumer Reports Reliability Data 2008
Comments (35)Roadbike, of _course_ I'm comparing CR's reliability reports to those of other research journals. Gathering data, reporting on it, and analyzing it is what CR purports to be doing. What else should they be compared to? I am _not_ talking about their individual product tests - I'll get to that in a minute since you brought it up - but rather these data compilations from which CR expects its readers to draw conclusions. There are literally thousands of research journals in all kinds of fields, and their processes are standardized and transparent. And there's a reason: because you can't draw conclusions about sample data or generalize such conclusions beyond the sample if the research isn't rigorous, well controlled, and transparent. The fact that CR is sampling owners of mowers is no excuse for their piss-poor work, anymore than if they were surveying patients in a research study for medication compliance. The research is only useful if it meets research standards. Such things as interrator reliability (where different-branded mowers that are the same under the paint and made in the same factory should have the same result) matter. If the reports aren't reliable or valid, then what is the point of buying the magazine!?! Why would _anyone_ buy CR if they didn't think the info in it was reliable or valid? That would just be plain stupid. But it's not, and all the advertisement of their _journalists_ in white lab coats won't change that. Speaking of their product tests, I recall one test of an Echo blower that was tested in some standardized way (ANSI? OSHA? I forget) and reported with some sort of decible rating for that lab test. CR purported to replicate the test and got a louder result, and called Echo liars in writing. Unfortunately, they didn't know all the original test procedures and therefore couldn't possibly replicate the standardized testing. But that didn't stop them from smearing the Echo product all to hell and back. Even after Echo wrote a letter protesting the incorrect procedures, CR wrote a rebuttal saying "Echo does have a choice: tell the truth about their product!" That not only shows a lack of willingness to listen, but also a fundamental misunderstanding of proper testing procedures....See MoreConsumer Reports + Miele DW = What the...?
Comments (53)Wow, Mojavean, that's really interesting about the founder of CR and its schism with CU. Or maybe schism isn't the right word, they were perhaps more sequential. Anyway, the reaction to the communist and union threat is really interesting. I, too, chewed on CU a bit in their recent "survey". I have done so in the past, though, and heard nary a thing. I know many, many who have criticized them in this way over the years. I think I even read an interview with the director responding to this sort of criticism a few years back. ("We can't release our findings because that would jeopardize our objectivity"... blah blah blah - nonsense. I suspect they won't release their findings to minimize that which specific companies can complain about, but of I course I don't really know). It really is a crying shame for CU not to morph into more open accountability. I should think the take-home lesson of wikileaks and this whole modern internet era is that more transparency is vital. If it hasn't happened already, sites like GW will leach CU's support as people take stock of their bomb-purchases and find other ways to supplant the "research" provided by CU. Trouble is, the aggregate summation of information provided by CU is unique, and the right, really the only way to provide useful information. I am really valuing GW, but at the end of the day, these are all just individual anecdotes, provided by strangers with varying degrees of reliability and their own often-unacknowledged sets of filters and biases. It's always been something of a transcendental and frankly, political question the degree to which one values anecdotes. But I should think this internet era ought to be pushing at least one forum (e.g., CU) to more thorough and open accountability, not less (which would be the inherent realm of a anecdote-site such as this). But it's always frustrating trying to tell another how to run their business! From salesmen who could actually *make* the sale if only they ever smiled, just once, to mega-testing firms that instill presumed filters onto their analysis without disclosing their makeup. I suppose there might be more hope of tilting at this windmill than at some others, in deference to their inherent or at least stated 'democracy' (I think they give a nod to such theory, do they not?). But I think, truthfully Mojavean, it is a lost cause. CU knows full well their value would be enhanced by open reporting, and they have consciously chosen, long ago, not to do so. They have variously defended the decision over the years, but I am unaware of them ever wavering. I think nothing short of a flat-out full stakeholder's revolt will force any such change of policy. I hope I'm wrong and if you'd like to direct this particular footsoldier, lemme know how. I'll sign whatever you suggest or write an individual letter if you think it worthwhile. Feel free to contact me offlist if you'd like to strategize. :)...See MoreConsumer reports makes me feel like I can't buy a top loader wash
Comments (22)* Posted by jerrod6 (My Page) on Sat, May 24, 08 at 18:23 "I wonder if it is possible to compare TL or FL made 1 or 2 years ago to the ones made today because the energy requirements are stricter. I think washers made for the 2008 market must use less water than washers made for the 2005, 2006 or 2007 market. In this process they must use less energy which has made some manufactures define a hot wash as 90F. Sorry, but any temperature below my body temperature is not hot." My F&P Aquasmart purchased a couple of weeks ago defines hot as "Incoming water from faucet". I assume you could crank up your water heater to whatever temp you wish, although I still wish it had an internal heater. Couple things I dislike: No FS dispenser. I thought this was very low rent for such an expensive washer. Even people who don't use FS may use vinegar. There is no feedback on programming. You can program in an extra rinse but there is no way I can see to look at the machine and tell if it is going to do one rinse or two. F&P recommend deep fill for sheets, whites, bulky and Easy Iron. So maybe 50-60% of the washing sees an energy (water)saving? I like that it has 1000 RPM spin... clothes dry faster. As for cleaning ability... it seems adequate. I haven't had it long enough to have any challenging tasks. If I could change anything it would be to add a fs dispenser and an internal heater to easily reach sanitizing temps....See MoreConsumer Reports decry expensive, high-end sinks
Comments (23)My recollection has been that the Kohler cast iron enamel sinks are guaranteed. Their advertising shows someone heaving a frying pan into the sink from some feet away and leaving no mark or dent. But, here's the latest version of the guarantee, which sez that Feb 10, 2000 rewrote the guarantee. They're more cautious than previously, but if I read this correctly I think that the chip/dent is still covered and the example above is proof of it. Surface scratches, dullness, and stains and etching from cleaning products are not covered. http://www.us.kohler.com/general/warranty.jsp#ci Joaniepoanie, Kenmore items are usually rated individually by CR, aren't they? Could this be an indication that Kenmore outsources wisely, choosing the better or best products of various manufacturers and/or that it sets certain stern requirements in order to be a Kenmore supplier? Either way, it's not a bad thing. Yes, we all know Kenmore items which have failed, but we also know some good ones that are still a-chugging along. When the CR annual kitchen issue came out two years ago, my range hood got totally blackballed. I was very hurt, as if this were a personal slam. It's important not to take CR stuff personally. (fyi: I now know that this hood is a hard one to install and there is a good likelihood that the test model may not have been properly installed. I'm happy with my product and it's done what I want, but I'm also sure, in hindsight, that the "winner" product must have been a good one. It took me 2 years to come to this wisdom.) [soapbox mode on] I find the tone of this thread interesting. Naturally, being me, I believe it speaks to the defensiveness that comes with splurging on high-end choices. But then, I am not in a high income bracket and my home is not in a pricey enough neighborhood to have been able to allow me to even consider high-end choices. Yeah, I'm frankly defensive about my situation just as posters above feel insulted by CR. Those of us who have modest projects cannot help but feel that there is a prejudice against moderate projects and products on the GW Kitchens forum. Prejudice may not be conscious but it's there. Most recently, there was commentary about it on the "this forum is a drug" thread and I couldn't just giggle when I read it because I believe it's true that we can get addicted to ratcheting up the costs. Put it another way: this thread is in part about peer pressure and the pressure is overt. If stuff is shown in the magazines and the promo pamphlets, does that make it better? Are publicists likely to show excellent low-end products in their photo spreads? Should we use "predominance in publicity" as a symptom of excellence? Think of how an 8th grade teacher could use this thread as a critical thinking exercise. [soap box mode off]...See Moremonicakm_gw
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