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laranita2

Gas hookup, HELP!!!

laranita2
13 years ago

I really hope my fellow Garden-webbers can help me with this one!!!

We are nearly finished building a new house. It was a tear-down. We need to get the gas re-connected. So we contacted the gas company (there's only one in our area). The previous home had gas before us, the lines are in place, etc. etc. Well. The gas company, after 90 days of making us wait, informs us today that there's a "contribution required". To the tune of $4,3440. Apparently, they are claiming that the existing gas line is "old", and needs to be replaced, so they need to rip up the street and the sidewalk and are passing that cost on to us. Um, since when is the homeowner responsible for paying to have a public utility hooked up?! We didn't have to pay the power company, and they took power lines and buried them to hookup to our house. This is a suburban neighborhood, mind you, we're not out in rural country or anything. I'm curious to know if the neighbors lines will also be replaced, I mean, if mine is old so are theirs, right?!

I am at a loss as to who to call, besides harrassing the gas company.

Love to hear thoughts on this one!!

Comments (17)

  • User
    13 years ago

    You are in the extreme minority if you didn't have to pay to have the power run to your home. It's the homeowner's responsibility (and expense) to run the lines from the nearest available source to the home. Just as it's the homeowner's responsibility to run any other utilities from the nearest public connection point to their home.

    It's the gas company's responsibility to ensure that the connection to your home is done in a safe manner. That includes mandating that you replace the supply line from their main to your home. If your sewer line from your home to the city's main was old and in disrepair, you would be required to replace it on your own dime. Same with any other utility. There are some exceptions in places where the cities themselves own the utilities, but even "free" hookup isn't free as you pay for that with higher rates for everyone and the "free" hookup comes out of everyone's pocket. By requiring that any construction or development pay for their own hookup, your utility is shifting the burden back to where it belongs: on the person needing the service.

  • brickeyee
    13 years ago

    The owner or developer pays for the initial installation of the utilities.

    If the utility says the line is shot, the owner gets to pay for the replacement.

    Tearing up roads and then repairing them can get VERY expensive.

    I recently had a client who had to run a new main drain to the county manhole.

    The utility would not allow a drop in the manhole, so the entry had to be 14 feet under the road surface.
    You should have seen the sizer of the trench to get down to depth with all the OSH safeguards.

    It ended up being over 10 feet wide at the surface, and all that asphalt had to be repaired to state standards since Virginia owns the streets.
    At least we managed to joggle the line to avoid the driveway apron.

    They have to be built to state standards also, and may not be tunneled under.

    My plumber does a lot of line replacement work so at least he gets away with fewer inspections when repairing the road.

    By back-filling with gravel (almost all 14 feet) in small lifts with a vibratory packer sinking of the road from the fill is eliminated (and the bond and call backs that creates).

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  • bdpeck-charlotte
    13 years ago

    It really depends on your location. When I lived in CT, I bought a house that used to have NG, but was using a propane tank for a cooktop and oil for the boiler. I installed all new gas appliances, ran all new pipes for it and called the NG utility. They said that because I wasn't doing the boiler as well, I'd have to pay for the line... $110. The house was only 20 ft from the street, but that's a far cry from $4,000.

  • meldy_nva
    13 years ago

    Agree with all of above! Please consider that the cost of updating is minor compared to the potential cost of an accident caused by a gas leak.

    Brickeyee's sounds like a horror story, but all too possible. My experience (also in VA) was much, much better. The gas company used an underground trencher -- looked like an oversized screw -- to run the line from their main to my house. Under the street, under the water main, under an ancient dogwood, and underground alongside the 120' driveway. The only surface soil distubance was about 4' before the pipe came up aboveground to be hooked into the house. Sorry I don't remember the cost, but I think it was about $1000; and worth every penny. However, the idjet who hooked up the gas furnace was overpaid by 100% (ended up getting another firm).

  • lyfia
    13 years ago

    Is that $43,440 or $4,344 ? The comma is a little confusing.

  • lazypup
    13 years ago

    In almost all jurisdictions when a property owner applies for a gas, water or sewer connection they pay a service connection fee and they will be given the exact location of the final connection.

    The property owner is then required to install a code approved line from the structure to the final connection location stopping a specified distance from the final connection (usually 3 to 5 feet). When the line is completed the property owner notifies the service supplier and they will come out and inspect the line. If the line passes inspection they utility service personnel will make the tap into the main and make the final connection. In the case of gas & water the utility provider will also install the "Curb Stop" valve, which marks the line of demarcation between the property owners line and the utility providers line.

    In the case of a metered service such as gas & water the service provider will also specify the location where the meter is to be installed along with a specified "Meter Fitting Allowance" and the type and size of the fittings to be attached on the ends of the line at the meter location. While installing the line the property owner then leaves a gap in the line equal to the meter fitting allowance.

    After the lines are installed both the utility provider and the homeowner are then responsible for the cost of continuing maintenance on their respective portion of the lines however, in many jurisdictions the utility provider offers a maintenance option where the property owner will pay a small monthly fee on their utility bill to cover future maintenance on the line.

    In my jurisdiction the gas company offers what they call a "Line backer contract" for $6.00 a month. Under the line backer contract they will repair or replace all gas, water or sewer lines. (In the last three years I have had both my gas line & sewer line replaced under that agreement for a total cost to me of two pots of coffee I provided the guys while they worked).

    Having said all of that, there still remains one point in the original post that causes me pause to question there proposal. Code requires that all lines passing under a public thoroughfare to be sleeved, and this has been a code requirement for over 50 years. They would have to explain to me why they intend to dig up the street instead of pulling the existing line out of the sleeve and pushing a new line through.

  • brickeyee
    13 years ago

    "...this has been a code requirement for over 50 years."

    Not used/enforced in many places.

  • lazypup
    13 years ago

    Brickeye,,,, I am sure you are right but I have worked in eleven different states and its been a code requirement everywhere I have worked.

  • manhattan42
    13 years ago

    Won't find that 'code' requirement for pipes to be in sleeves under streets or throroughfares in my state either.

    ---------------

    That said, whether the owner pays for the upgrades and piping necessary to serve the gas requirements of the dwelling, or whether the gas company pays, will often be determined by the calculated gas demand and whether or not the gas company can sufficiently recover its investment in a resonably short period of time.

    If when building an all gas home, for example, the gas utility will likely determine that despite the cost to them for the initial hookup, the payback in gas purchases over the life of the structure is more than enough to not charge any installation fee for the gas service.

    If, however, one has an existing all electric home, but wants to convert to gas just to run a back-up gas generator in the event of a power failure, the utility will likely want to charge the customer the full costs associated with installing the new gas service because there is little chance the company will ever recover their that investment.

    So it really depends on how much demand one will have that ultimately determines whether or not the utility charges for the service hook-up.

    ------------
    It can also depend upon where the meter is located.

    Typically, the utility is responsible only for the gas lines up to the meter.

    Where metering is done at the street in a curb box, the cost to the utility to connect gas service can be negligible.

    But where metering is done at the dwelling (as it is in my state), the costs to the company for initial installation can be considerable...especially if the dwelling is many hundreds of feet from the street or they encounter things like bedrock.

    -----------
    Bottom line: It is not unusual for the gas utility to charge for installations...especially when gas demand will be low or distances to connect are long or difficult to achieve.

  • worthy
    13 years ago

    Yet more proof that GWeb is must reading for any diy homebuilders, if only for the examples of the costs of inadequate research and preparation.

    Anyone building a new home has the responsibility to check out utility installation charges beforehand.

    As the above posts demonstrate, the costs and methods of installation vary greatly.

    Where I build in built up urban areas, the natural gas utility excavates, disconnects the old line, hooks up a new line and runs it to the new meter all for no charge. They run the new line in a shallow trench (two feet deep) or use a torpedo.

  • worthy
    13 years ago

    in a shallow trench (two feet deep)

    That's once it's on the homeowner's property. The utility typically picks up any costs for going under public roads and existing utilities

  • brickeyee
    13 years ago

    " I am sure you are right but I have worked in eleven different states and its been a code requirement everywhere I have worked."

    The utility is not bound by the same code.
    If the line is on the utility side of the meter the regular code does not apply.

    I have never seen a utility sleeve its distribution lines, and if the meter or corporate valve is on the homeowners land they will have no lines under the public right of way.

  • bus_driver
    13 years ago

    Apparently different practices depending on the gas company. I watched Piedmont Natural gas upgrade their lines when they replaced and upped the pressure on the main. Lines to individual homes were black pipe with yellow plastic coating. Not sure the longest length of pull they did, but they used a backhoe as the puller, hooked the new black plastic line with tracer conductor to the old line, pulled the old steel out horizontally and pulled the new in simultaneously. Ground disturbed only at the ends of the pull. I saw them do 60 feet easily. Amazing! A rusty 3/4 pipe driven 8 feet deep vertically for a grounding electrode is really difficult to pull upward. I estimate that it sometimes requires 6 or more tons of lift to extract.

  • brickeyee
    13 years ago

    " A rusty 3/4 pipe driven 8 feet deep vertically for a grounding electrode is really difficult to pull upward. I estimate that it sometimes requires 6 or more tons of lift to extract."

    The trick is to drive the pipe a few inches deeper before pulling it out.

    Driving it deeper breaks a lot of the adhesion to the surrounding earth from corrosion, and the forces driving it deeper (even with a 3 pound drilling hammer) are huge.

  • david_cary
    13 years ago

    Well - this clearly depends on location and I'm not sure what you can do about it except for convert to all-electric or propane. Utilities are monopolies and you can try appealing to the city - but I suspect policy is policy and you are at the short end.

    Here I paid for the meter - new construction so they had to dig the lines but there was certainly no street work.

  • brickeyee
    13 years ago

    "Utilities are monopolies and you can try appealing to the city..."

    Even who you might appeal to depends on the state.

    In Virginia the State Corporation Commission approves rules like hook up costs and even rates.

    The counties, cities, towns, etc. have no control except for cable TV.

    For the most part in Virginia if you upgrade your panel (say from 100 amps to 200 amps) the POCO is on the hook to replace the feed at zero cost.

    For a while Virginia Power (now Dominion Power) even had a preferred meter base they wanted used, and would supply it for free if you were upgrading.

    We also do not have a lot of hassle over cutting meter tags if you have a permit to upgrade.
    The POCO is well aware of what is required.

    For many years when you upgraded you mounted the new meter pan beside the old, then ran jumpers from the bottom of the old meter base to the top of the new meter, placed shorting bars across the new meter connections (1 inch wide 0.90 aluminum about 6 inches long) then plugged the meter back in to the old base (with the main breaker off there is no flash issue).

    A house would only be without power for a few hours during the upgrade if it was planned well.
    Refrigerator and freezer circuits get hooked up in the new main panel first and immediately turned back on.
    The next circuit was usually a utility circuit right beside the panel for the remainder of the upgrade.

    No one likes working in the dark, especially on a main panel that is actually turned on.
    This part is NOT for the inexperienced.

  • laranita2
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Thank you all so much for your insight!!

    My original post had an extra zero. They wanted us to pay $4344.

    It happens that I am in Virginia... so thanks for all those useful remarks about virginia.

    We talked at length with a variety of people at the gas company, and they decided that they will not replace the original line coming from the main. Apparently if it is pre 1956 then it must be replaced... we are indeed pre 1956, but they decided that well maybe it would be ok after all. They will just reconnect to the existing line, and they will continue to inspect every few years, and when it needs replacing they'll do it on their own dime. The grand total was cut by about half.

    And they did admit that because our estimated gas load is quite low, we are being asked to pay for most of it ourselves. If we had a higher gas load, they would pay more of it. We put in geothermal, so we aren't using much gas, jsut for the fireplace, oven, and grill.