You closed 1 week ago, and your GC is saying that this isn't his issue because the floors were fine then??? Is he absolutely out of his mind?!!! This is even more bizarre since the windows were found to be faulty before this. This is definitely your GC's issue...not the people who installed the flooring. They can't magically protect the floors from water damage sustained by faulty construction. And, just as an FYI...spraying a window for 5 minutes and getting any water to come in- that's a pretty major issue AND it is 100% your GC's responsibility. For him to see this and say that it was okay and "that he was done" boggles my mind. If you had water intrusion simply from spraying windows (regardless of how long or with how much force you sprayed them), you will have much more water come in from a rainstorm of several inches. Trust me...we've dealt with a very similar issue for the past 12 months.

So, you have a few options (depending on your contract)...1) hold back a substantial amount of money from your GC and get someone to find the real issues and fix them (and fix your floors as well) and use that money to pay them, or 2) still hold back the money from your GC and use it as a carrot to get him to fix the problems with your house which are his responsibility to fix.

I'm sorry you're going through this, especially with a baby so close to arriving. I hope it's a quick and easy fix!

I'm with dixiedoodle on this one. I can't fathom you GC saying this isn't his issue. Has your working relationship up to this point been contentious? I know you are dealing with a scratched shower enclosure also. According to your other post, I believe you only owe him a final payment of $3000. Whatever you do, DO NOT give him that money. He needs to figure out why water is getting in and how to fix it. Installing tile floors will not fix the issue if your wood floors are buckling. Good luck and I'm really sorry you are going through this.

did you actually see water?? I would be far more concerned with water entering your house than the condition of the floors or damaging the paint. I do not think that tile will solve your problem, it will just mask the symptoms better.

If you did not see the water or do not have a leak, it could be the wood floors that were not dried (or slab) correctly. Are they wide plank floors? Did they acclimate the floors (open boxes) for a few weeks before installing.

I would find the source of the problem and not pay anyone until you do. If your house leaks, that should be on your builder. This is a serious issue that needs to be resolved ASAP.

If the floors were not dried or acclimated correctly, that should be on your floor guys. If you have a GC who handled the subs, make your GC deal with it.

Good luck with the baby. We had our second little one 2 months ago. It definitely makes building interesting.

Of course it is his problem and no you do not pay him until the problem is solved. What does your contract say? Does it include a warranty of his work? This is ridiculous. If he keeps refusing to fix this, you may need an attorney.

I would definitely get some other opinions on the cause. Start with your floor guy, your contracting friend and then inspector. Then go back to the GC with your findings. He must suspect something wrong that he doesn't have the time or money to fix--JMO, but it would be my guess. Stick to your guns, your gut instinct and hang onto your money, until he agrees to solve the problem.

I'm sorry you are going through this, esp. before baby. Try not to let it ruin your time and memories before and after baby arrives. This problem will pass, but you can't get those precious moments back. It will be ok, although I know it doesn't feel like that right now.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Hi,

We have had a good working relationship excluding the scratched shower enclosure. I even went so far last Friday (before discovering the flooring problem) to tell my G.C. that if the shower enclosure could not be fixed for less than $200, I would just live with it and he could supervise the installation of a cedar yard fence and we'd call it even. I point blank said on Friday, while discussing the shower enclosure, "I do not want this to end badly. We've worked well together up until now and we need to find a compromise we both like."

This morning he said that he has other work needing done and my job has taken longer than he expected, so he is done.

Thanks,
T.J.

If you call a water remediation company, they can test the house at various points for moisture to help you figure out where the water is coming from.

Hi,
I really appreciate all the kindness & support! Thanks for the great advice to focus on our baby and not focus exclusively on the housing problem (which is my nature).

I did not see any water and the floor boards were not damp to the touch. It just looked like water damage and that's why the GC & I assumed it. I pointed out that the boards may not have been installed correctly and the excessive humidity from the rain may have caused it but my GC said he did not think so. He said it looked like water damage to him but he has no idea where the water is coming from and he could not find any water.

The floors were brought to my house on Wednesday and installed the next day (Thursday). I ran the AC during that period as instructed. I've left the AC at 82 since that time but it probably was not kicking on during the rain since the outside temperature was lower than 82 due to the rain. I suspect the humidity was very high in my house due to the rain.

My GC was responsible for all the subs. We really do not have anything that I would call a contract. I signed an initial proposal that gives estimated costs and allowances but it does not have any terms or conditions. My GC said that's the way he always has done it for 25 years.

Thanks to all,
T.J.

I have never heard of anyone bringing floors to a house and allowing less than 1 day for acclimatization.

Anyway, from your initial post you stated that "over a gallon of water got into the house and settled on the floors," but now you are stating that you didn't see any water and it just looked like the damage should be water damage? Also you stated that when you sprayed the windows, you and your GC were able to get water to come in, but now you are saying that you "could not find any water." I'm just a little confused about what you actually saw/didn't see and what is actually happening. Based on your last post, it would definitely be possible that the damage is due to improper installation (not allowing floors to acclimate) rather than water damage.

Either way, I still stand behind the statement that this is your GC's issue to address whether there was water damage or whether the floors were installed incorrectly. Also, I'm sure you know this now, but a house is a pretty huge investment to risk by not having a contract that is fair to both parties...and one which addresses things like right to withhold payments and warranty items.

Hi,

I believe my original post said, "It appears like over a gallon of water got into the house and settled on the floors at the lower points in the room." I was just guessing that it would take that much water for the wood floors to buckle as much as they have. I was guessing it was water damage but I have no idea what really did it. I was just trying to rule out all possibilities.

When I stated we sprayed the windows, I said, "The best we could do was to get a couple small streaks to come down inside the windows but they could not have amounted to more than one ounce of water. There's no way that ruined my new wood floors." What I was trying to say is the windows are not leaking enough for that to have damaged my floors.

I don't see where my posts are inconsistent. Sorry, if I somehow confused you. Regardless, thanks for helping me!

Thanks,
T.J.

Sorry...still think your postings read as different issues, but anyway, any water coming in through your windows is too much water, even if this wasn't what damaged your floors. You need to get that fixed ASAP. Your initial home inspection noted a problem with the windows, what proof have you that this problem was addressed by the builder? I'd demand that and a new inspection.

The flooring company has moisture meters that will help them to address how much moisture is in/under the floors. Your GC should also be on-site when they are there (as well as you), b/c it will probably turn into a he said/she said sort of fight. It's better to have them fight it out with each other than for you to carry messages back and forth....because at the end of the day, unless you dumped a bucket of water on the floor or left a faucet running that overflowed, this is probably not your responsibility to fix or to pay for as the problems are either due to faulty construction (GC's problem) or faulty flooring installation (flooring company's problem).

thermal imaging is one way of where the water
is entering. you may want to consider that your build
may end badly, but better to correct the problem than
have a new builder/friend.
I would concentrate on identifying the leakage area
repairing the leak and then replacing the flooring.
tile is a band aid fix, if your windows are leakinging. You could be moving into a home that will make you sick.
Best of luck.

Hi,

My GC said he does not have time to go to my house anymore. He refuses to be there when the flooring company comes.

I'll ask to see the moisture meter readings when I meet the floor company at my house. What measurement levels imply it's faulty construction and what imply faulty flooring installation?

Thanks,
T.J.

I'm not a pro flooring expert but know a little bit about improper
installation of wood flooring over concrete. If you are on a slab foundation and
the waterproof membrane was not installed, then you are going to have problems
no matter which flooring you put down. Not only should the slab be waterproofed,
you still need to seal the floor and use the correct type of glue to help
waterproof the floor again with the adhesive epoxy. If you do not use the
correct installation products, then your floor will surely fail.



We used MVP4 Moisture Vapor Protection on a slab floor,

http://www.bostik-us.com/products/index.asp?fa=subCategoryPages&divisionId=2&categoryId=2&subCategoryId=49&subCategoryPageId=34Â
followed by using Bostik's Best waterproof glue.

http://www.bostik-us.com/products/index.asp?fa=subCategoryPages&divisionId=2&categoryId=2&subCategoryId=49&subCategoryPageId=31

P.S. Don't pay the flooring company or the GC until this is done. Going to court is where you're headed unless you just want to let them $crew you. Be firm. SOMEONE did not install the floor correctly or failed to supervise. OF COURSE the GC doesn't want to come back! Always withhold at leat 25% to help keep people motivated to return. $3K is chump change when they know you have a $10K problem. Plus, they can put a lien on your property, so do not think this will go away. Research my name and you will find my grief on how I know this scenario all too well.

BTW, do check out that info site link above.

Since you're using the name "TexasJerry", I'm guessing you live in Texas. If that is correct and your construction was valued at over $10K, the very first thing you need to do is visit the Texas Residential Construction Commission website which lays out what you HAVE to do, by LAW, in Texas if you have a dispute with your builder concerning a post-construction defect. Since your builder says he is "done", your floor problems and the leaky windows (and who knows what all else at this point) all qualify as post-construction defects.

I hate to say it but your GC is starting to sound pretty problematic to me. As far as I am concerned, when you have a GC, he is responsible for all work done by any subcontractors he hires. If they mess up, it is his screw up as well and he should not be allowed to get away with disclaiming responsibility for anything they did wrong. And, with leaky windows and a buckling floor, I suspect there is a good chance your home has other hidden defects that will manifest themselves over time.

Anyway, part of what you'll learn on the TRCC website is that under Texas law, you have to give your builder a 30 day written notice of the defects and then, if he doesn't repair them, you'll have to request that TRCC send out an inspector to inspect and pay a $250 fee. (If the inspector agree you really have a defect, TRCC will refund the filing fee.) If the inspector agrees that whatever you are complaining about really is defective, he'll write up a report and TRCC will recommend that your builder fix the problems. Know ahead of time however that TRCC has no power to actually make your builder fix anything. Additionally, the TRCC inspector is not even allowed to tell you if he sees other problems with your house while he is inspecting the particular things you have complained about. So don't think the TRCC process is actually going to take care of your problems. But, by law, until you've gone thru the state mandated process (called a SIRP), you CANNOT sue your builder - assuming your contract will let you do that anyway which I suspect it won't - or seek mandatory arbitration if that is required by your contract. The TRCC SIRP is really just a hoop you have to jump thru before you can get in front of a judge or arbitrator who actually has some real power to make the builder fix the defects or pay you damages.

The second thing I would strongly recommend is that you at least have an initial conversation with a very good construction lawyer and do it as soon as you've sent your GC the 30-day notice letter. As I recall, you mentioned on another thread that you purchased an "80% complete foreclosed home" which means that there was another builder involved before your current GC ever came on the scene. That fact is going to complicate matters immensely because any problems that arise could very well be caused by something done or left undone by the first builder. Plus, in Texas, getting through the SIRP process and getting satisfaction where there are construction defects is difficult enough even where there is only one builder involved. Heck, you might want to go ahead and have the lawyer draft your 30-day notice letter for you and send it on his letterhead on your behalf. In some cases, just getting a demand letter from a lawyer may tell the other side that you're serious and that you intend to follow up until you get satisfaction. That may actually be more effective than the whole TRCC process.

I do wish you well and hope that this doesn't turn into a long drawn out nightmare.

Hi,

Yes, I live in Texas and thank you for the detailed & informative description of how the TRCC process works. I also agree that an attorney drafted demand letter may be the most efficient & effective alternative, if I need to pursue legal remedies.

Thanks,
T.J.

Hi,

We had the same wood floors installed in three rooms and it's only buckling in one room. I tried to think about what is different between the three rooms and concluded that the other two rooms have four walls made of studs/drywall. In the room experiencing buckling floors, three walls are studs/drywall but the fourth wall (where the buckling boards are closest to) is a solid concrete wall because the room steps-down from a raised concrete foyer. All of the wood flooring has expansion gaps covered by quarter-rounds adjacent to the studs/drywall. The only concrete wall has the hardwood glued firmly against it without any expansion gaps. Could that be the problem? Is that a bad installation method?

Thanks,
T.J.

You should have expanstion gaps, however having it on all the other sides should be sufficient if the floor was acclimated enough.

Is it possible since you suspected water damage that there is any coming up through a crack in the slab or that water got high enough outside to seep in between the slab and framing?

Besides possible water intrusion, you have some issues with the hardwood installation. First, your installer did not do a moisture test of the slab. The test takes a few days and is usually required under the terms of the warranty when installing hardwood (even engineered) on slab.

Second, you don't mention a moisture barrier. Not always required, but a good idea if you get a lot of rain - and it may have been required for the warranty of your particular manufacturer.

Third, the flooring was not allowed adjust to the local environment. Usually a couple of weeks are required - engineered usually sits in the original packing, while solid is usually unpacked.

Fourth, you should have expansion gaps all around. However if the entire floor is buckled in a glue-down installation, this probably wasn't a major factor.

There are certified flooring inspectors you can contact to get an inspection and written report. Or your flooring manufacturer might send someone out. Either way it really shouldn't be up to you to figure it out - your GC and sub are obligated to take care of it. But of course that doesn't always happen in the real world.

Hi chiefneil,

Thank you very much... that's very helpful information!

I purchased BR111's indusparquet 5/16" solid wood. I have not been supplied with any warranty information, so I'm unsure of the conditions.

The installers used a thinset mortar to even the floor and glued to that surface. They did not use a moisture barrier. I believe the Bostik glue they used had some type of moisture resisting property, but I may be wrong.

The solid wood was not unpacked. All the installers did when they delivered the wood at 4:00 p.m., on the day before the installation, was open a few of the boxes which they planned on using first.

Thanks,
T.J.

Hi,

What questions should I ask the floor installers when I meet with them? I'm sure they'll try to claim it's not their responsibility. What do I need them to admit to if I need to pursue a claim? Would you meet with the guys who actually did the install or would you request to meet with someone higher up? I'm concerned that the guys who actually did the install may be liable for their mistakes which might cause them to disclaim problems that are truly theirs. Then again, management may be just as/ or more prone to do the same.

Thanks,
T.J.

TJ

chief has it right - the wood is expanding (in the summer - wood expands when it absorbs moisture. In the winter - it shrinks as the moisture content drops).

First - the wood must be allowed to acclimate to the home environment before it is installed. Did they run the A/C for a few weeks to dry things out before the wood was delivered?

Acclimating the wood can take a few days to weeks depending on where you live and the product you are using. What type of wood product did you use? Is it rated for application directly to a slab? I have done wood on a slab - but that wood product was made specifically for direct gluing to concrete. And that concrete had cured for 6 years before I ripped up the vinyl and laid down the wood.

I don't think you have a water infiltration problem. You would see pools of water on the floor. It sounds like the wood is absorbing the moisture from the concrete slab and your house. Concrete takes a very long time to fully cure (the Hoover Dam built in the thirties is still curing) so putting wood right on a newly poured slab is not a good idea. Generally, a vapor barrier is layed down and wood stips are screwed into the floor. Then they attach the wood to the strips. How did they apply your floor?

I also think not having that expansion gap on the 1 wall is an issue. But it also sounds like the entire install was hosed.

The builder isn't done - he needs to fix your floors. Don't pay him in full.

Hi sniffdog,

Thanks for the much needed help!

The AC was not turned on in the house until the day before the install. I was told to run the AC at 75 when the wood arrived and continue to run it at 75 for three days after the installation was completed. I did as instructed. Uninstructed, I gradually increased the temps and have run the AC at 82 since that time. I thought it might be bad for the wood floors to completely turn the AC off, even though the floor installers never said that.

I purchased BR111's indusparquet 5/16" solid wood. I was told by the flooring company that it could be glued to a slab.

The installers used a thinset mortar to even the floor and glued to that surface. They did not use a moisture barrier. I believe the Bostik glue they used had some type of moisture resisting property, but I may be wrong.

The wood is buckling only on one side of the room. It's buckling on the concrete wall side without an expansion gap.

Thanks,
T.J.

A quick review of the BR111 installation instructions for this product will show that the product was not installed per manufacturer's recommendations.

For example, the installation instructions specifically state that "HVAC systems must be fully operational at least 14 days prior to flooring installation, maintaining a consistent room temperature between 60-75 degrees Fahrenheit and relative humidity between 35-55%. This not only stabilizes the buildings interior environment, but also is essential when acclimating hardwood flooring to the job-site. Maintaining a controlled environment is paramount to the performance of the product." They didn't even acclimate your floors for 24 hours!

And, "Allowing for a 1/2" minimum expansion gap around all vertical obstructions is critical. Wood expands and contracts with changes in humidity. Wood will buckle and/or cup if an adequate expansion space is not provided. Always allow for expansion when making end or side cuts around vertical objects." They obviously didn't do this either.

Hi dixiedoodle,

Thank you very much. That's very helpful!

Would you meet with the guys who actually did the install or would you request to meet with someone higher up? I'm concerned that the guys who actually did the install may be liable for their mistakes which might cause them to disclaim problems that are truly theirs. Then again, management may be just as/ or more prone to do the same.

Thanks,
T.J.

If it's only buckling at the concrete wall where there's no expansion gap, then I think it's fairly obvious that's the problem. From your description of it looking like gallons of water caused the buckling, I thought the whole installation was buckling.

That's an interesting product - solid wood that's ok to glue to a slab. Your installers probably used Bostick's Best, which is a waterproof glue (but not a replacement for a vapor barrier). Anyway, after reading the Bruce instructions it looks like everything I said earlier was on the mark.

You need to talk to a manager at the flooring sub. They need to rip out the buckled wood, scrape off all the glue, and replace. It's a decent amount of work. You might want to see what kind of warranty they offer on their work, as you might run into more problems as the wood adjusts.

The leaking windows are still an issue, just a different one - don't think you're in the clear on those.

Hi chiefneil,

Thanks again for the much needed assistance!

About half the floor (the side with the concrete wall) is buckling. "It appears like over a gallon of water got into the house and settled on the floors".

Looking at a picture I took between days 1 and 2 of the installation, I think they used Bostik's BST Urethane. Was that the right product to use for this installation?

Thanks, I'll ask to meet with a manager. I'll also ask about their warranty.

I agree... these floors are not my only concern.

Thanks again,
T.J.

That glue was probably fine - I used bostick's best on my own floors and it's an excellent glue. Bruce is also a very good product - if you get any static from the installer you can always call Bruce.

You might want to go over to the flooring forum, there's some flooring dealers and pros over there who can speak more authoritatively on this subject.

Honestly, I'd push this issue pretty high up the "flooring" company chain. Your manufacturer's warranty is void b/c the floors were not installed appropriately (read the warranty on the website for more information regarding this)...that's a pretty big issue. While this appears to be becoming more of a complaint against the "flooring" (I'm using that term in quotes because I don't believe that these were actually professionals...they didn't even follow basic principles of acclimating the wood, using the homes HVAC appropriately, or leaving appropriate expansion joints...pretty basic stuff.) company than your GC, he needs to get his act in gear and be present for these meetings. It is still his ULTIMATE responsibility to deal with these issues...unless you had a separate, individual contract with the flooring company. You also still need to get those windows looked at professionally.

TJ

The is a similar product that I used - it was a Bruce direct glue product.

They should have had the AC on weeks before the install. Couple that with the zero gap and you got the cause ofr your problem.

When we turned our AC on for the first time, i could not believe how much water poured out of the house. I know this because the dummies fogot to hook up the drain line in the basement. During construction, the house is like a sponge and the wood studs and other absorbing materials will suck up moisture in the air. It needs to come out of the house before you lay the floors in. The wood product will also have moisture in it - although the engineered products have a lot less than all wood. That is why the planks have to acclimate to the house before they are installed.

Did you contract for the floors separately or was it through your contract with the builder? If you went solo - then you need to run this one by the floor company. The install wasn't done right. If the builder was on contract to managed the install - then it is his problem to deal with.

Hi,

Yes, my GC was on contract to manage the install. He has refused to assist with any repairs that obviously need to be done. He said, "I'm done with this job and need to be paid in full".

I do have a separate contract with the flooring company regarding the purchase & warranty. I called the flooring company yesterday and the installers were suppose to call me back. They have not, so I just called the flooring company and requested to meet with a manager. The sales person said they would have a manager contact me.

Thanks to all,
T.J.

Hi TexasJerry -

Any updates on getting your floor and window issues solved? Been thinking about you and trying to send good karma your way. Hoping you get a positive resolution before the new baby arrives so you can focus fully on fatherhood and not be still trying to fix the house problems. Will be watching for news.

Hi bevangel,

Thank you very much for thinking about me and sending good vibes! I really appreciate your kindness & support. It speaks volumes about you.

Baby is due next Thursday. We have a doctor's appointment this afternoon and should know more then.

Some good things and bad things have happened with the house since my last posting.

The flooring installers came out Saturday and looked at the floors. At first, I thought they were going to try to hold me responsible for the floors because it appeared they were looking for a way to say it wasn't their fault. Fortunately, when they said it was not their fault (I certainly expected that), they said it was the manufacturers fault and the wood was defective (I didn't see that coming). I've always heard that BR111 has good products, but I don't care whether they get free wood from BR111 or not as long as it gets fixed without any extra charges to me. Before leaving, they said their boss had to come out next week and perform a moisture test. This made me wonder if their boss would overule their decision and somehow claim I would have to pay for the repair. Fortunately, they called me Tuesday and said their boss was on vacation and they were going to go ahead and order the wood. I just called them this morning, and left a message, to see if the wood has been ordered. I want to make sure they do not try to go back on what they've already stated.

The less than good news. Things get mighty hot down here in South Texas, so I purchased R-40 blown-in cellulose insulation for my entire attic including the garage. It should originally measure 13" and settle to 11-12". My GC's insulation sub did not spray the garage as agreed, so my GC brought him back a second time. My GC then informed me, "It's done. You have R-40 everywhere and the sub needs paid". I asked my GC to do me a favor and go up in the attic and measure in a few places and report back. My GC called back and proudly stated, "You have 7-8" everywhere". I explained it should be 13" but the sub convinced him that wasn't the case. I finally spoke directly to the sub who tried to babble they used a glue-water spray which makes it much denser and it's measured in density, not inches. So, I asked to see his density meter. Needless to say, the guy does not have one. So, my GC finally gets the sub to come back and the sub put's cardboard measuring barometers (which clearly show that R-40 is 12-13") across my attic rafters which display the height of the insulation. My GC again calls me and says, "It's done. You have R-40 everywhere and the sub needs paid". I told my GC that I would go up there myself and measure before the sub is paid. I did on Saturday after the flooring people left. I felt real good when I first got up in the 110 degree attic when I saw all the measuring barometers were showing the insulation was between 12-13". Then I was shocked when I did a few measurments and they all showed 7-8". I measure a few more times til it hit me what they had done. They folded the measuring barometers at the 5" point so they display 12-13" when they're really 7-8". If that's not fraud, I don't know what is.

Any suggestions for how I should handle the insulation problem? Some of the insulation ads in our yellow pages claim they're licensed but I can't find any such entity in Texas.

Thanks to all,
T.J.

Well, the acceptable way is to contact the Fraud division of the state police. If your GC will back you up, that would be A-1, but he may not want to go out of his way to get court-involved (understandable, since court processes take a lot of time). You will want uninvolved witnesses as to finding the folded measures, and -hopefully- to the installers' verbal claims that they completed the job to spec. Written claims are better, but you seem to have handled the situation through discussions rather than in writing.

Does your area have a BBB? If so, they might go to bat for you in trying to get a resolution.

The not-so-nice but effective way is to have a friend at the local TV station do an exposé on insulation fraud -- you aren't the only one this company has ever dealt with! And it's amazing how few cheats want their faces on TV.

Oh that's terrible! I'm always amazed at how awful people can be! It's a good thing you checked, a lot of people would have just taken their word. I hope this can be resolved quickly and easily and you can enjoy your new house and your new little one soon! Congratulations, and I'll be thinking about you!

Jerry - I am definitely coming to the conclusion that your builder IS NOT looking out for your best interests. He just wants to get paid and disappear. Please, please, please talk to a good construction lawyer. It sounds like you are getting ripped off by your builder's subs and that he is complicit in helping them do it. And yes, IMHO, what you describe about the insulation measurements is out and out fraud.

I've also never heard anyone suggest that insulation is "measured in density". What B---S--T! The best insulation is a total vacuum, next best is entrapped air. The more trapped air, the better. That's why - even with the pink stuff - you fluff insulation up rather than squish it down. The denser it is, the LESS well it will insulate.

Have you checked to see if the builder is even registered with TRCC? (Not that thatregistration means too much but if he hasn't even bothered to register, then you KNOW you have a crook on your hands.) You mention being in south Texas. I'm in Austin and don't practice construction law so I can't give you any legal advice but if you'll tell me the city you're in, I'll see what I can do to point you toward a good honest lawyer. I really think you need one. You can email me off-line if you want: bevangel_72 AT yahoo DOT com.

I would just tell them if they want to get paid to do it right. Besides getting it done right (which you can get by withholding payment), what would a lawyer do for you? You seem to be on top of things, which is awesome being how close you are to giving birth. What would you win if you sue them for fraud, besides a bill from a lawyer?

I keep recommending that Jerry talk to a good construction lawyer because, in Texas, getting residential construction problems fixed is made horribly complicated by the Texas Residential Construction Commission and various statutes that ultimately PROTECT BAD BUILDERS.

Further, Jerry's situation is complicated by the fact that he purchased what he called in another thread "an 80% complete repossessed home". That means there was another builder on the scene before Jerry ever hired his current GC. The other builder may have gone out of business or the original owner may have quit paying him because of constuction issues we haven't even heard about. The 80% completed house may have sat vacant and exposed to the weather for weeks or even months before it was repossessed and sold to Jerry. Even if originally properly built, if the house sat semi-exposed to the weather, that could result in numerous problems down the road

One house in the neighborhood where I am building sat at the Tyvek-wrap stage for over two years after the original owner and his builder got into an irreconcilable dispute. Neighbors began referring to it as the Tyvek house. After about a year, it was repossed by the bank and the ONLY reason I know it isn't Jerry's house is that after tying unsuccessfully to unload it at auction, the bank finally had the house finished about a year ago so that it could be sold. No one would touch it in its incomplete state and at one point I know the bank had dropped the price to little more than what the land alone was valued at. Still no takers.

My point though is that if/when legal wrangling starts, Jerry's current GC can and probably will point the finger at the previous builder who is likely to be judgement proof at this point. And, even if he is not, he will point the finger back at Jerry's current builder and/or claim that any defects are due to the house having sat incomplete for whatever period of time. Jerry will be caught in the middle.

Plus it seems like Jerry just keeps finding additional problems with the house and that his GC, instead of really working to make things right, simply keeps demanding that he (and his subs) be paid. So far we've heard about:

1) Leaking windows... which Jerry seemed rather unconcerned about until folks on this board pointed out that windows should NOT leak at all. Haven't heard whether the leaking windows have/have not been fixed yet. I suspect they were improperly flashed and will have to be removed and reinstalled. I also bet that once Jerry starts trying to get the windows taken care of, the installers will insist that the windows were improperly manufactured and the manufacturer will insist that installation was faulty. In the meantime water is very likely penetrating the wall cavity under the windows which will eventually lead to mold and rot.

2) At least one crack in the foundation that is wide enough that Jerry's CG was able to spray water into it... maybe it is nothing but I'd be getting a foundation engineer out to take a look at it NOW just to be sure!

3) SOLID hardwood floors that are bucking. Apparently they were glued to a slab foundation with NO moisture barrier and before being given any time whatsoever to acclimate to the climate of the house plus they were installed with inadequate expansion rooom. Never-the-less the installers claimed the flooring materials were faulty. Frankly, it rather concerns me that Jerry is naive enough to have been surprised when the floor installers claimed the flooring materials were faulty because pointing the finger at someone else is a time-honored mechanism that miscreants use to escape responsibility! I would lay money right now the manufacturer will say that the installation was faulty and therefore that the warranty has been waived. Jerry says the installer has ordered more wood flooring. What I don't hear him saying is that the installer has agreed to PAY for the new wood. Why would the installer pay to buy new wood if the original materials were actually defective???? But the manufacture is NOT going to supply another load for free if it believes that the problems were caused by faulty installataion. And, if the installers don't pay for the new wood, Jerry will have no choice but to pay for it because the supplier can and will put a lien on Jerry's property if it isn't paid.

4) Inadequate amounts of insulation AND then insulation guy lying thru his teeth! Further, either the GC is activly complicit in the insulation sub's attempt at fraud or at least he did nothing whatsoever to check that his sub had actually done the work he was hired to do. Let's face it, if Jerry can figure out that the sub merely bent over his measuring devices over rather than actually adding another 5" of insulation, shouldn't a half-way competant GC have been able to figure that out as well?

None of these defects are minor cosmetic flaws. Every single one of them is a HUGE deal yet the GC just keeps saying "pay me, I'm done. Pay the sub, he's done."

My guess is that there are other flaws as well in this house that will manifest themselves over time. The GC is hoping to get his money and disappear before Jerry finds anything else.

One thing a good construction lawyer would probably recommend is a series of inspections by experts that he knows to be competant in order to try and figure out just what all else is wrong with the house. Wiring? Plumbing? Roof? Who knows? I could be wrong but knowing that the GC overlooked the fact that the insulation guy folded his measuring device over by 5" so that it would show 12" - 13" inches of installation when there was really only 7" - 8" strongly suggests to me that he cannot be trusted to have properly supervised any of the rest of his subs either.

It is not totally clear to me whether Jerry has "closed on the house" since apparently he hasn't finished paying the GC. I would actually be surprised if Jerry's contract even ALLOWS him to retain any monies upon closing since the form contract promulgated by the Texas Association of Builders and used by probably 99% of builders in Texas specifically disallowers retainage. However apparently Jerry has taken possession of the house because he refers to the builder giving him back the keys.

In general I believe that once an owner takes possesion of new construction in Texas, the clock starts ticking on the Owner's ability to bring a claim under Texas's statutory warranties for new home construction. A good construction lawyer would know whether the clock is already ticking for Jerry and would know the statute of limitations for each of the various construction defects that Jerry is dealing with. I don't but I do know that in some cases the statute of limitations is as short as ONE YEAR... and you have to have gone thru all of TRCC's required steps BEFORE that time period is up. You cannot just show up in court the day before the SOL runs and say, hey, I want to bring a suit for breach of warranty suit. (Prior to TRCC, you could do that but shortening the effective warranty period is just one more way the TRCC protects builders.)

Based on what Jerry has written, I think his house is a disaster waiting to happen. There are complicated legal hoops that Jerry will need to jump through before he can possibly bring a legal claim. He needs to understand them now so that IF/WHEN he finally decides he needs to sue, he will be ready to do so. I am worried that without some legal advice, he will wait too long to begin the necessary hoop-jumping processes and the statute of limitations will run on his claims. I'm worried that if Jerry doesn't pay the subs because of their substandard work, they will simply file liens against his house that will then cloud his title and ultimately force him into court anyway. I'm worried that Jerry seems to be doing all his communicating with his GC and with subs orally rather than in writing. That means that if/when this all winds up in court - or more likely, before an arbitrator that is likely to be biased in the builder's favor to begin with - he will have no proof whatsoever to support his version of the story.

Frankly, it feels like I'm watching a train wreck in slow motion. In advising Jerry to at least talk to a really good construction lawyer, I was not and am not trying to drum up business. I don't practice construction law and know that I don't understand it well enough to advise anyone. In fact, if I were in Jerry's shoes, I too would have to hire a lawyer and I would consider it money well spent. I just really truly hate to see a good man with a brand new baby watch his dreams turn into a protracted nightmare.

texasjerry-- Can you please tell me the name of the company you are using? I am located in South Texas and will be building within the next six months. I want to make sure this is not the same company we are going to use.

Hi bevangel,

Thank you for the kindness & support! I sincerely appreciate all the time & energy you've spent trying to help me. Much like mikeyvon, I try to settle things on my own and have never, in my life, had to resort to legal action. Unfortunately, this matter appears to be rapidly growing out of my control, at a time, when I cannot continue to make it a priority. You've made many excellent points for why this matter may require legal assistance. I've sent you an email.

Best regards,
T.J.

Hi momtothree,

G.C.? Southwest Construction.

Best regards,
T.J.

I hurried through all the posts, so maybe I missed it if someone else made this point, but why are you paying the subcontractors? I don't see how you can hold the general accountable, if he didn't hire the subs?

My understanding of the process is there exists a contract between the GC and the owner. The GC contracts with (and pays) the subs. There is normally no contractual relationship between the owner and any sub.

The GC is in charge of and responsible for the entire project. That is why he is called the GENERAL contractor. By contracting directly with a sub, you remove the GC from the equation. This doesn't seem like a normal situation.

so how are things standing now

guess the baby is here--hope that went well
how is the house situation