Hi steve333, good question. I always said I'd never buy HF panels again, but when I was faced with the purchase, I caved! It was a combination of price, and convenience. At the time, I priced 4mm twinwall polycarbonate at a number of greenhouse supply companies. The best price at the time was through FarmTek (cheaper than Charlie's or any other source I tried.) Their product had a ten year warranty, and was truly UV-protected. However, the cost to purchase enough material (just for the roof) with crating and shipping fees to my address, was $410. The cost to order more Harbor Freight roof panels, with shipping, was $135. That difference was enough to give me pause. Hmmmm. Note, it's possible folks living closer to urban areas with more businesses would have found better deals on shipping, but down here in southern NM, the only things close to us are lizards and cactus. Also, the HF panels arrive sized to fit; if you buy better polycarbonate from a greenhouse supply company, you'll have to cut the material to size yourself for each part. Not difficult, but it does take time, so I factored the convenience in as well. Also, occasionally I consider upgrading to a larger home-built greenhouse, so kicking the can down the road doesn't bother me as much as it would if I was positive I wanted to keep this small greenhouse another ten years. I think an argument could be made for both sides. If rtyu's and my experimentation with the Top Secrets clear epoxy product pans out, though, it will definitely tip the scales towards using the (clearly lower quality) HF panels and protecting them with the coating, especially if folks can apply it to their new greenhouses, and avoid the need for panel replacements. Fingers crossed. I think much of the appeal of the Harbor Freight greenhouses is cost/value. They appeal to folks who want to try greenhousing but don't want to make a major investment. I haven't tallied it up exactly for a while, but scrounging supplies, materials, and labor, I figure we have around $2500 in ours total, including kit, benches, sink, plumbing, electric, heaters, thermostats, shadecloth, pavers, and the new roof panels. Over six years that's roughly $400 a year (not including heating costs, which aren't too bad in my climate.) So I think many folks who are attracted to the HF structures also enjoy keeping costs low. It's just one option in the world of greenhouses, and not the right fit for everyone. Happy New Year!

Martin, From a strictly technical viewpoint, the aerobic reaction is an oxidation reduction. Oxidation because the sugar is combined with oxygen, reduction because the sugar is reduced to carbon dioxide and water. From this perspective, it is not accurate to refer to the process as "fermentation". Still, given that there are lots of webpages that refer to "aerobic fermentation", there is an argument of common use that can be made. We also know that alcohol is produced and that the only possible way for that to happen is if part of the process is anaerobic. We also know that the liquid is more acid after 5 days of fermenting than it was at the start. The only way for it to increase acidity is through anaerobic fermentation. Please note that I am neither attacking you nor defending Carolyn. My only purpose is to try to get to the truth of this question. I don't care whether the process is aerobic or anaerobic or some combination of the two. I have no axe to grind nor cud to chew. I do care that the process works and that it is fairly easy to do. Yeast does not "break down H2O" Breaking H2O into its components requires a huge energy input. It normally occurs only in chlorophyll containing plants that use the suns energy as a pump to cause that separation. You can do a search for photosynthesis and chlorophyll if you want to see the mechanisms that make this possible. Since yeast does not normally contain chlorophyll, and since yeast is extracting energy, it does not separate water into its components. Re flipflopping, I make it a point to change my opinion promptly and completely when evidence is presented to indicate that I am on the wrong path. I have not flipflopped at all since doing some real research about the process of fermenting tomato seed. Clear evidence including a few references has been presented that many statements you have made are incorrect. Have you changed your position as a result? If not, why? The oxygen barrier in an open fermenter used in producing beer is a layer of carbon dioxide that accumulates above the fermenting vat. A lid is placed over the open fermenter which tends to trap the CO2 that is produced by the yeast. So long as that CO2 layer is minimally disturbed, a very effective oxygen barrier is produced which causes the beer fermentation to be anaerobic. All of the information I have at this point indicates that tomato seed fermenting is composed of an early aerobic process followed by an anaerobic stage. Most important to me is that BOTH stages are required to achieve the desired end result. It doesn't stop there though. There appears to be a bacterial stage after the yeast has run out of sugars to digest. The bacterial stage is the point at which the acidity increases and is the point at which pathogens are probably eliminated from the seed. Fusion

Taunia Please thank Barbieboop and thank you for posting it.Ithink you can save it to your files and then add a column. This is sure going to help me in my craft room The only thing I added was the freezer paper. There are a couple of things I'm not familiar with but will ask about them later on. ABCs and rubber stampingon Sat, Jan 18, 03 at 23:46 I thought this was cute; the list was made by barbieboop: (edited by Minnie-Tx) ABCs & rubber stamping Lets have some fun! ABC's and rubberstamping: how many stamping products are there? can we make a list of them from a-z? A adhesive, adventerous (I mean you've got to try some new things!), acetate, artistic wire, aluminum foil, amazing glaze, appliques, art markers, acrylic blocks, Anti-Static bag, Angel Dust- a stamping powder, B brayer, buying, blending, blender, book making, books, beedz, beads, baby wipes bleach, buttons background papers bone folder boxes C chalk collozzle creating crafting cutting circle cutters crystal laquer chocolate charms corrugator compressed sponges cardstock color wheel confetti cold laminate collage cutting board Carving tools and erasers COOL FINGERS Corner Pro Corner rounder Corner punches D die cuts dream weaver stencils dry embossing/de bossing diamond glaze, Dr. Martin's of course dried flowers in paper double-sided adhesive tape Duplo CS daubers (finger and mini) decorator papers decorative scisors dimension deckle scissors DOTS--the stamps and the POP kind E embossing powders embossing pens Envelopes, EVOS templates exacto knife erasers, F fun foam fairy dust fabric ink FINGERS french fry box (makes a wonderful pattern) fibers foam board Fit-It Custom Template Printing cd-rom foils flock fabric Faerie Dust Faerie Myst Paints Faerie Glass Fiskars paper edgers freeform emboss Freezer Paper Flesh color pencils by Lyra Fuschia ink & pads funtustic??? funky film??? G glue glitter glitter glue gel pens gold leaf glossy paper glue stick garanimals tags( makes a neat image on a card) gem stones glimmer glow spray glycerin, H heat gun hand made paper HALOS hole punches heart templates, I ink ink pads interference IRON, J juicy ink pads and pens junk- for embellishing jewelry (good for collage) jump rings jelly rollers (pens) Jute Joss Paper (you can find it at oriental markets) Judikins K kat trax tool-(A kat trax tool is something the radiant pearls people put out to stipple the radiant pearls with. Kind of like a wiry brush- holly.) Knives KAI's scissors kid fingers kaleidacolors Kreate a lopes, L liquid Applique loop lace liquid crystal light box, M marvey markers metallic rub ons metallic markers Memories ink pads mulberry paper Mica milwaukee heat gun marbled stone marbles mulberry paper MaGill Punches magic Melt Embossable Pearls N new techniques new stamps nail polish (for background tech.) needlenoise nylon ribbon Nesting Templates Neopaque paints??? O oval templates oval cutters orginal works of art organizers O- rings for dangly things ORGANZA RIBBON Orgami papers Oil pastels! P puff paint pearl ex pigment ink perm. Ink powdered pearls pens pencils paint brushes paper paint(tulip paint for fabric, embellishments) PolyShrink Positioner paper punches PATTERNS-COOL SHAPPED CARD postage stamps cancelled paper towels polymer clay PAPERMAKING KITS PAPERCASTING KITS PAPERPUNCHES FOR PUNCH ART penscore paper clay Q q tips for blending and chalks QUOTES FOR INSPIRATION Quick drying glue Quilt cards Quilling toolsuestions R rubber stamps rubber radiant pearls ranger ink pads rice in a balloon for a background stamp ruler rubber bands ribbon raffi re-inkers Rollagraphs, S stenciling stippling sponges sayings stamps salad spinner shelf liner sticker paper Stickles- (acid-free glitter glue by Ranger) scoring tools scissors salt!-(for watercolor resist technique) spackle Scotch tape shrink art SWAPS scraps STAPLES shaker cards and supplies scrubber-used to scrub the ink off your stamps stylus seed beeds and sugar beeds String self healing mat T tidy tray tea bag folding tranparancybeing toilet paper- (faux paper casting with tp, starch, water and bold stamps) tria tags Tape templates TOMBOW markers tack it over and over U UTEE umounteds Ultimate Embossing Powder unry paper(like mulberry) UHU glue sticks, V vivid ink pads velvet paper vellum paper velvet to stamp on Velcro vacuum (from the mess of the embossing powder) Versa Mark vinyl- for attaching ums to acrylic blocks VIDEOS FOR TEACHING, W wax seals water colors (crayons, paint, or pencils) wire water wonder under wonder tape weaving wire cutters Window card washi paper X xyron machine Xtreme Gel Pens (The BEST gel pens! They color beautifully on laminate! X-acto Knife xerox paper Xray film for templates, Y YES glue yarn yards of ribbon yard stick Y&G gel pens Z zebra pens Zenas stamps Zip lock baggies... Can YOU add to the list?

Hello "orange-peel" fans!!! >>> Sorry Darren-painter... * The 1st mistake was using a "paint" where it shouldn't be...right on chalky-texture & bare drywall paper!! * PVA (poly-vinyl-acetate) primer should've been used. IDEALLY b4 AND after spraying texture. Not many painter do, but it's the "ideal" way. * At a minimum, priming HAS to be done after texture is dry. * Primers & paint are 2 different things. A decent primer will seal-off the VERY POROUS drywall paper & the sprayed texture. Paints will just largely soak-in...and unevenly at that! >>> Your texture did what it would naturally do...crumble & get pasty when wet! It's just drywall-mud & water sprayed on wall. * When this mix dries, it's basically "chalk-lumps"! What happens when you sand drywall joints?? Same thing...lots of dust! * Your "paint film" will peel off these texture-lumps VERY easily, since they're BARELY adhered to the drywall paper. A paint film applied to this will start to form a skin, and easily peel off the chalky texture. * If wall had been PRIMED b4 texturing, it has a better "grip" to the primer than to bare drywall paper. >>> Your primer was peeled off by the tape because it takes time to form a tough-enough bond to wall. Primers are made to seal, not be tested by tape!! * You need to slit the primer/paint film with a knife at the tape-edge when done painting. * The film that bridges onto the TAPE, is stronger than the bond to the primed wall...FOR MANY HOURS after paintings' done!! * This "bond-forming" takes DAYS. Painted walls aren't considered CURED/hardened-off for a MONTH. * I purposely wait till next day to slice at the tape-edge! That way it's a nice dry cut. >>> To summarize, your texture-situation is completely normal. >>> Up here, I grew up seeing "orange-peel" everywhere. I still think it's odd seeing SMOOTH walls! I don't care for smooth...too annoying seeing little flaws/waves. >>> You'll also have to get used to using REAL primer, and TWO topcoats of paint. THAT'S what produces the best finishes. Have a good one! Faron