I had to laugh when I read your post, because I could *so* relate. I am amazed how much technical understanding I have had to learn to muddle through my current DIY bathroom redo. Even more than my kitchen!

Anyway, here's my best advice on the shower. Like you, I found the set up and brands I wanted, and tried to buy online. But could not figure out just from reading the manuals how to get all the parts I needed (let alone if they were compatible). So I went to a local plumbing supply store that carried my brand(s), initially with the intention of talking to someone and picking their brain about which valves were needed, how they connected, etc. After I priced everything out with them, they were about 5% higher than what I had found online. I figured that getting their expertise (as well as someone to talk to if something went wrong during install) was worth the 5%, and I bought the shower set from the local shop.

The set up I got (after reading about 500 posts on this oh-so-helpful board) was a Jado 3/4" thermostatic mixing valve and trim (sold separately), two volume control valves and trim (sold separately), a Jado handheld shower set, a Grohe rainhead, and a Grohe bar that the rainhead hangs from (sold separately). Hope that helps.

Gee, and I thought it was just me. I ended up going to the Moen web site. Up at the top under Consumer Support it says Contact Us, so I did. I explained what I wanted and after emailing back and forth a couple of times they sent me a detailed drawing and a complete list of what I needed to order. It sure saved me a lot of time and headache. Even if you aren't going to use Moen fixtures, it will still tell you which parts you need. Good Luck!

Thanks, i thought about calling the faucetdirect.com 800 number and asking for help, but haven't gotten that far yet. I just find it kind of astonishing. Probably consumers asked for more decision making control about their set-up and I could go to HD and just get something off the shelf, but I wish there were a happy medium.

And can someone explain WHY you can't have volume and temp control in ONE VALVE? I seriously don't get that one at all. Grrrrr!

For a pressure balance valve, one valve DOES control temp and volume. You only need a volume control valve with a thermostatic valve, because all the thermostatic valve controls is temperature - and then you need a volume control valve for each "device" you want to be able to operate. The volume control is a fancy name for the "on/off" control. In a pressure balance valve and trim set, the temperature control and on/off occurs in the same valve. You turn it on and then regulate temperature by modulating how much hot and how much cold is coming out at once.

A pressure balance valve doesn't lend itself easily to many "devices" although if you get one with a diverter you can do a shower head and tub spout for instance - but one or the other, not both at once.

I'm not sure what you're looking at but if you list the trim that you're looking for maybe someone can help you figure out what you need.

BTW I have a graduate degree and it doesn't help. I just scratched my head for 6 months before semi figuring it out.

When I ordered my setup from faucetDEPOT.com it noted on each page of the fixture what else was needed with it (like you need a drop el for a handheld, for example) and that worked for me. It even linked you to the next part as I recall. Of course, they may not carry your brands, but it's worth checking. Good luck, I'd never have been able to figure it out on my own, and I saved several hundred dollars doing it online instead of locally.

Kohler makes a pressure balance valve/trim with one handle; we just put the Bancroft one in a tub/shower. The only thing we don't like about it is that you cannot adjust the water volume -- it is basically off or on. You turn it from off to cold to hot, finding the temp you like in between. Our kids don't mind.

Hansgrohe makes some nice thermostatic valves/trims with both on one handle. There are two parts, the small one sets the temperature, and the larger lever turns the water on and adjusts volume. There are three different ones though, depending on how many fixtures it will serve. If you have only a handheld on a rod, you just need the Thermobalance I.

Are you in California? My local Pacific Sales has a great display of Hansgrohe shower pieces, were really helpful and their prices are competitive.

I agree it's all horribly complicated. FWIW, I found it easier to find parts (and combinations thereof) by going directly to the source: Grohe's catalog and website. None of the online retailers I've looked at even had complete listings of the parts, let alone logical organization of them. The Grohe catalog is still complicated, but at least you know everything is there, and they (generally) tell you what pieces work with each other)...

Thanks for all the help. My goodness, I thought this would be the easy part. I guess I need to do some homework but I do appreciate the "Showers 101" course here. Good thing I'm not taking it for credit.

I spent hours on trying to figure out what to order and logged in several phone calls to the manufacturing companies themselves. They were really useful.

If you havent' looked at Hansgrohe, it may be worthwhile, because they do offer a combination volume/temp control. It's less expensive than Grohe for the shower and I think less expensive to install since it is all in one valve.

I thought it was just me!!

Okay then, I guess I'm off to check out Hansgrohe. For some reason I thought they were very expensive but right now I just need to get some decisions made before my contractor calls me AGAIN. Do you think they could give me a week's notice before the plumber needs this stuff? Huh? DO YA?!

Grumble grumble grumble... *shuffles off to surf the web endlessly*

I love this site because we all have the same questions and the same "grumble grumble grumble" issues! Groupy therapy!

I decided to go to Home Depot and ask the "experts." The first orangeman came up and said "Hi! I'm Jess. Can I help you?" After explaining my problem, he said "Bob" would know and wandered off, I thought to get him. I stood there like an i-dot for 5-10 minutes when he wandered back. ...

"Hi! I'm Jess. Can I help you?" I left.

OMG. Jess made me laugh out loud!

kgwlisa, with what you've been going through with tiles you need a big laugh!

I'll join the club of the overwhelmed and underinformed. Just completed our first bath remodel. The best thing I did was to go to the local bath supply guy for excellent advice and guidance. Took me through the entire process patiently and made sure I had everything I needed for the job. May have paid a little more than online but like to support local business and can't put a price on the value of the expert advice we got. Ended up with Hansgrohe Thermobalance 3 shower control. very clean look on the wall. You can select between tub spout, shower and hand held shower, with the ability to mix between shower and hand shower. Temperature is basically preset with a small center knob to adjust up and down. Love it. Best advice; don't cut corners on the shower rough that goes in the wall, you really do want it to work for a very long time!

I love this site too. I swear it's one thing that keeps me (somewhat) sane through this process. I'm doing a whole house, so that bathroom is just a fraction of my frustration, but I really thought "it's a shower valve, how hard can it be?" This has actually become harder than the dumb gas fireplace gizmo decision.

So by the way, I'm standing in my 1970-something apartment shower this morning, looking at the hideous fake crystal faucet and guess what - BOTH THE TEMP AND THE VOLUME ARE CONTROLLED BY ONE HANDLE. Seriously, who decided that two valves (or whatever they're called) are better than ONE? Call me old fashioned (or just stupid, stressed out and stubborn) but this is really irritating to me.

End of rant... and thanks again for being wonderful and great resources of information and support.

Don't feel bad - I ordered a Grohe shower setup from a high-end local supplier who told me all I needed was the pressure valve (no mention about needing a volume control). I was expecting the temp/volume control in one valve which is what I wanted. I should have known better! The plumber didn't even mention there was no volume control until we tested the shower when it was all finished. Luckily it's in a guest bath that won't get much use. I hate wasting water at full blast just to get the temp warm enough. It really pays to do your time on the forums since you usually end up knowing more than the people who sell you the products!

There's been a lot of discussion about the shower valves, but not about what else you need for a handheld. You'll need a wall union (the thing that connects to the pipe behind the wall), a hose (connected to the wall union), the handheld showerhead (connected to the other end of the hose), a bar and holder (to hold the handheld when you're not holding it). Then you have to decide at what height you want the wall union. Mine is low, but on reflection, I think it might be better to install it high, such that when you drop the handheld, it won't fall on the floor.

Maybe you're looking too hard?? This one has been doing it since the 1960s as far as I know.