any feedback on signature hardware cast iron tub made in china?

The Starcraft Custom Builders website is fantastic. We purchased our American made Waterstone faucet for our kitchen based on reviews I read there. It feels nice to use and looks great - also I am willing to pay a premium to buy American! We have waiting to be installed for our bathroom Brizo and Graff fixtures. I learned so much reading on Starcraft's website and feel that my money has been well spent.

For those interested, we have published our review of Fortis faucets, which may be viewed at Paini Faucets Rating and Review.

This is all very troubling to hear. Also troubling is the ad for Signature Hardware that is currently appearing on Starcraft Custom Builders' website! What a world we live in.

Any recommendations of buying a cast iron tub from Signature Hardware?

I'm not saying your wrong but when I asked Signature Hardware if they were lead free, etc. They said yes. They said they revamped their entire product line in 2014 to meet all US regulations.

Paul

I don't know what Signature Hardware did in 2014, but as of two hours ago, the company's faucets were not legal to advertise, hold for sale, offer for sale or sell in the U.S.

Well if it sounds too good to be true, which the exposed pipe thermostatic shower with handset and tubfiller does--and no one else seems to carry anymore--then Signature Hardware might actually qualify: so it's buyer beware. Meaning me!

Thanks Starcraft for the head's up on the certified lead testing issue. I'll check them out and report back, Paul. There may be others out there as well on the list.

Grohe makes a thermostatic exposed pipe shower with handset. Euphoria. Not sure if it comes with tub filler, since that was not one of my needs.

Positive report. I looked up Strom Plumbing and checked it out on Starcraft's reviews, called up the company, for more info, and went to a local plumbing store. They do business with Strom. Have their catalog. BTW Strom has the thermostat-controlled, exposed pipe tub/shower. Lots of other gear, too. Great find. Thanks Starcraft!

Starcraft, do you know who manufactures Signature Hardware's VINTAGE line? I was looking into buying that, but now feel I need to do some more research, obviously!

The Vintage line is probably made by more than one manufacturer. The only way we could tell which manufacturer made which faucet is to compare the Vintage line faucets one by one to the catalog models offered by each of SH's known manufacturers, and, unfortunately, that's more work than we have time to undertake at the moment.

And, it really makes little difference. Each of SH's Chinese manufacturers is at about the same level of competence and quality. But as none of SH's faucets are certified to North American standards or registered with the Department of Energy, none are legal to sell or install in North America.

They are going to provide me the certifications by email today. I assume that means some are.

I just bought a copper 66" donnley slipper tub from SH they say they test their products for defects and if the tub has leaks (not true) I relied on that from them bad mistake! this happens after I paid my plumber to install in which I had to replace older drain was expensive my Tub LEAKS AT THE SEAM I have contacted customer service and have had three contact me with three options of taking care of this issue not one relizes that it costs money to pull the tub out take bathroom door off hinges and remove then put a replacement in. Then it is up to me to discard the leaky tub. It is frustrating just want my money returned and it's on them to get the tub returned very disappointed

Starcraft.. Find your information very interesting, especially since I just opened a package from SI with my new Mulder kitchen faucet. Can you advise if this non-compliance applies to the Mulder brand as well as the Augusta brand? Or, are these just rebranded products? Thanks so much for being a consumer watchdog!

Pj.. Did you receive certificates?

No I did not receive any warranty or any paper work of brand or gauge of copper verifying what I actual purchased they also have an eBay account they did refund me my money so I have moved on with my purchase of a copper tub

Mulder is not, as far as we can determine, a faucet brand, but an SH faucet model. It is not certified or legal to sell.

Augusta is a brand sold by FactoryZoom Inc. of Fremont CA trading as Maykke. The faucets are made by Zhejiang Shengdian Sanitaryware Co., Ltd. They are partly certified, but until they complete all certifications, are not legal to sell in the U.S.

I did receive a certificate. Manufacturer was Chinese but was certified.

Happy to send if you provide email address NPi may be name.

PJ

The Chinese company certificate is an old SH trick. They use another company's certificate, circle a faucet model and claim that the faucet is the same as what they sell. No accredited testing organization recognizes the use of another company's certificate as proof of certification.

To be a valid certificate:

1. The Signature Hardware name must appear on the certificate.
2. The model name or number used by SH must be listed.
3. The certificate must be dated showing that it is current.
4. The certificate must identify the standard to which the faucet is being certified ( ASME A11218.1/CSA 125.1 (Basic Faucet Standard), ANSI/NSF 372 (Lead-Free) or ANSI/NSF 61 (Drinking water safe). All three are required.

Absent any of this information, the certificate is not valid. Watch for altered certificates. They are very common.

If you will provide the name of the purported testing organization (probably IAPMO-RT) and the listing number, I will check to see if the certificate is valid. Or, better yet, upload the certificate.

I just purchased the Ryle freestanding tub faucet from Signature Hardware. I had no idea there might be a problem until I stumbled across this thread. I have not been able to find it on the list of approved California fixtures. (That might be because I am searching on my phone at airport, but I doubt it.). Do you know if this is an illegal faucet. If so, can you recommend a modern looking freestanding tub filler that won’t break the bank?

How would I upload it?

PJ

If it is a jpeg, or other image format or a pdf document just send it to jime@starcraftcustombuilders.com as an e-mail attachment.

dmpsd

Tub fillers are not included in the California regulations, so you are probably OK with an SH filler. There are also only a very few federal regs concerning fillers.

California's Table H-3 Standards for plumbing fittings affect only sink faucets. The standards for tub fillers are much lower.

(1) the flow rate makes little difference since the job of a filler is to fill the tub. Whether it fills the tub slowly or quickly has no effect on the amount of water used.

(2) since water out of a tub filler is not usually used for drinking or food preparation, the amount of lead and other contaminants is not usually a concern.

Since StarCraft Reviews does not study, review or rate tub fillers, we have no opinion about the quality of the product. However, keep in mind that SH does not stock replacement parts. So, if the product breaks in the future, you will probably have a difficult time finding repair parts.

@StarCraft Custom Builders - Thanks very much for your helpful response.

@StarCraft Custom Builders

Hi! Do you have any info on Barclay Products?

Some of their products are identical to SH, for example:

http://barclayproducts.com/shop/fillers-accessories/clawfoot-tub-filler-gooseneck-spout-cross-handles/

https://www.signaturehardware.com/bathroom/tub-faucets/tub-mounted-faucets/sebastian-gooseneck-tub-faucet-with-hand-shower-and-variable-centers-cross-handles.html 

We do not keep track of Barclay since the company does not sell sink faucets.

Sorry.

Wow, thank you for this information @StarCraft Custom Builders. I was just about to purchase a Vintage faucet from SH. I'm having quite a time finding faucets with porcelain "hot" and "cold" handles for a retro bathroom, many seem to be plastic or have plastic inserts where there should be porcelain.. What tipped me off about them was the price. As they say, if it seems to good to be true, it probably isn't.

Has anyone ever asked SH about Starcraft’s claims? Just curious. Seems hard to prove either wrong or right, but curious how this can all happen.

Hmmmm. They sent this link to me, it only mentions the 112 compliance. Is Strom Plumbing/Sign of the Crab in the same boat? Their name is mentioned maybe as another importer of items manufactured at the same plant. . . http://pld.iapmo.org/file_info.asp?file_no=0005231

lkeriegrl

The certificate SH sent to you is for the faucet company stated on the certificate,: DELUXE BRASSWARE CO., LTD.

SH commonly sends certificates from other companies as "proof" of its compliance with required standards. This is like Ford sending you a GM certificate as proof of its compliance with EPA emissions standards.

Here is an actual compliance certificate for Sign of the Crab/Strom Plumbing as an example of what an valid certificate would look like if SH had a certificate for its faucets: http://pld.iapmo.org/file_info.asp?file_no=0006717.

It has all of the elements of a valid certificate:

• The certificate is in the name of Sign of the Crab.
• Sign of the Crab faucet models are listed by model name or model number
• The certificate specifies ASME A112.18.1-2011/CSA B125.1 as the standard to which the faucets comply
• The date indicates that the certificate is current.

SH has started certifying some faucets. Unfortunately, the way the certificates are coded, it is not possible to tell which faucets are certified and which are not. You might ask for a certificate for the faucet your like and see if it meets the criteria set out above.

kelsmail4

What do you want to know?

@StarCraft Custom Builders - Thanks for such an awesome compilation of information on your website. It is really helpful!

Do you have information on SR Sun Rise shower heads. Reviews on amazon are pretty good and I read through quite a few of them and they seem genuine. Can't

https://amazon.com/SR-SUN-RISE-SRSH-F5043-Bathroom/dp/B014SWZG5O/

Also, I was checking some Fresca shower heads on decorplanet.com. There aren't any reviews too. Have you installed or seen any of them in person. Appreciate any feedback you might have on them. Thanks again for your help!

@StarCraft Custom Builders

For Kingston Brass, I do not see a listing cer­tifi­cate issued by any of the seven independent organizations authorized to test faucets to North American standards that con­firms
that Kingston Brass fau­cets have been tested and are certified lead-free. I see you list them to be compliant, yet have searched their website and online to find no verification or evidence of Kingston Brass products being lead-free compliant. Do you have a way to verify they are? Thanks in advance.

@Jal Zeta

Which company? Signature Hardware or Kingston Brass?

@StarCraft Custom Builders

Kingston Brass. (now corrected in the question)

Here are current certifications for Kingston Brass faucets. I have included the URLs of the reports so you can read them yourself. The URLs for ICC-ES reports are to links to the .pdf report which you will have to download into Adobe Reader.

IAPMO-RT

10031 KINGSTON BRASS INC. Plumbing Fixture Fittings http://pld.iapmo.org/file_info.asp?file_no=0010031

6516 KINGSTON BRASS INC. Lead Free Plumbing Products http://pld.iapmo.org/file_info.asp?file_no=0006516

N-10032 KINGSTON BRASS INC. Drinking Water System Components - Health Effects http://pld.iapmo.org/file_info.asp?file_no=0010032

3814 RIN SHING METAL CO., LTD. Plumbing Fixture Fittings (Addl Co.) http://pld.iapmo.org/file_info.asp?file_no=0003814

3857 TAIWAN SHIN JHIN LIH SANITATION CO., LTD. Plumbing Fixture Fittings (Addl Co.) http://pld.iapmo.org/file_info.asp?file_no=0003857

4026 YUH CHANG HARDWARE CO., LTD. Plumbing Fixture Fittings (Addl Co.) http://pld.iapmo.org/file_info.asp?file_no=0004026

4860 CHIING HANN SOUVENIR CO., LTD. Plumbing Fixture Fittings (Addl Co.) http://pld.iapmo.org/file_info.asp?file_no=0004860

5985 FALALI BATH BOUTIQUE CO., LTD. Lead Free Plumbing Products(Addl Co.) http://pld.iapmo.org/file_info.asp?file_no=0005985

7227 CHIING HANN SOUVENIR CO., LTD. Lead Free Plumbing Products (Addl Co) http://pld.iapmo.org/file_info.asp?file_no=0007227

9787 L.S.H. FAUCET CO. LTD. Lead Free Plumbing Products (Addl Co.) http://pld.iapmo.org/file_info.asp?file_no=0009787

N-3814 RIN SHING METAL CO., LTD. Drinking Water System Components - Health Effec (Addl Co.) http://pld.iapmo.org/file_info.asp?file_no=N3814

N-3857 TAIWAN SHIN JHIN LIH SANITATION CO., LTD. Drinking Water System Components - Health Effects (Addl Co.) http://pld.iapmo.org/file_info.asp?file_no=N3857

N-4026 YUH CHANG HARDWARE CO., LTD. Drinking Water System Components - Health Effects (Addl Co.) http://pld.iapmo.org/file_info.asp?file_no=N4026

N-6507 L.S.H. FAUCET CO. LTD. Drinking Water System Components - Health Effects (Addl Co.) http://pld.iapmo.org/file_info.asp?file_no=0006507

N-7624 CHIING HANN SOUVENIR CO., LTD. Drinking Water System Components - Health Effects (Addl Co.) http://pld.iapmo.org/file_info.asp?file_no=0007624

ICC-ES

PMG-1324 Kingston Brass, Inc. Plumbing Supply Fittings https://icc-es.org/report-listing/pmg-1324/

PMG-1327 Kingston Brass, Inc. WaterSense https://icc-es.org/report-listing/pmg-1327/

PMG-1329 Kingston Brass, Inc. Low Lead - Plumbing Supply Fittings https://icc-es.org/report-listing/pmg-1329/

@StarCraft Custom Builders

Wow!

Thanks to you, there is a way to find this out. Incredibly surprising that the regulatory bodies or other affiliated groups that make this compliance happen don't provide a simple way for people to verify these things.

Cheers and thanks again!

Finding out whether faucets are certified is no more difficult than finding a book in a library. You have to learn the system, of course, but it's not hard. However, to make it easier, we simply tell you whether the company sells certified faucet in our reviews.

It was my experience as a consumer that this library is hard to find. My point stands that initial access to verify such things is not made simple and could be improved upon.

StarCraft Custom Builders - I am considering buying a vanity from Signature Hardware. Do you review any of their products other than plumbing fixtures? (I couldn't find a link on your site that does so.) I'm looking at their Everett 48" vanity.

@ D N

We review sink faucets only.

^^ Thanks!

@jmedgar @starcraft-custom-builders

I wish I found this thread earlier. But at least before I have installed anything. I just purchased everything from SH for my new master bathroom. Plumber coming on Tuesday.

This is what I purchased. Are these not safe to install?

https://www.signaturehardware.com/bathroom/tub-faucets/wall-mounted-tub-faucets/wall-mount-faucet-with-english-telephone-shower-porcelain-lever-handles.html

https://www.signaturehardware.com/cooper-shower-system-with-rainfall-shower-and-hand-shower.html

https://www.signaturehardware.com/shannon-widespread-bathroom-faucet-with-porcelain-lever-handles.html

Thank you sooo much for all your research!

@ Li'l Inspirations, LLC

The first two items are not sink faucets, so the same rules do not apply.

For the third item, which is a sink faucet, and nice looking, ask SH for the listing certificate. If the faucet appears on the certificate AND the certificate meet the rules set out above, then the faucet is legal to install. If not, send it back.

After being badgered by us for 10 years, SH is starting to get its faucets certified, so the faucet may be ok.

Thank you @StarCraft Custom Builders for also explaining the difference between what qualifies as a faucet with different qualifications. I hope I can obtain the certificate for the faucets because they are very pretty and appear to be very well made.

SH faucets ARE generally of good quality. Our issue with the company is not its products, warranty or customer service -- all quite good -- but with its persistent refusal to certify its faucets so then can be legally sold and installed as faucets.