I recommend the blog, The Floor Elf "floorelf.com", written by a tile installer in Colorado...he wrote about planning for and incorporating niches...he's very detailed regarding layout and flow

Here is a link that might be useful: tile pro's input for niches, part 1 of 4

Love him! Thanks for the link. Sounds like I should shrink the depth of the niche to fit my bullnose. Ya?

Um... I may be missing something, but that demo doesn't correctly use the Kerdi in the niche... in a big way.

It may be a nice demo of niche planning, but not for kerdi/waterproofing...
careful...

I'm not real impressed with that blog.

As for the OP, I'd use a piece of granite in a color that either compliments or contrasts the tile for the bottom shelf, so I could cut it at about 5 1/2", and round it off, so that at the front corners, it meets the wall tile, thereby forming a drip edge so nothing will run down the wall. As for the other sides, you can either use a filler piece behind the bullnose, or bring the bullnose out to the face of the niche, so they frame the niche and cap the edge, and then you can use a 5" piece of tile on the sides and top of the niche. For that matter, you could use a Schluter Rondec bullnose strip for around the niche, and then use tile pieces, completely foregoing the 4" bullnose pieces you have.

There are many ways to do this. The VERY LAST thing I'd do is lose depth in the niche because the bullnose is the wrong size!

Hi Bill, I'm sorry your not real impressed with my blog.

pepperidge_farm - Ummm, that's how it was taught at the Schluter training - by Schluter. Apparently I'm missing something?

Roger

I liked his "jackassery" attitude, of course I know nothing about the quality of his work. Thank you for chiming in Bill. I'm glad that I won't have to lose depth in the niche, It's a Bill V. inspired niche. That really large one with the brown rectangular accent running through it?

OK, I understand everything except Shchluter Rondec bullnose strip.

I didn't want to do the a marble slab in there due to the potential of staining and what-not. Agree or disagree? I have (or am going to have) crema marfil slab on the tub deck, vanity counter, shower topcap, threshold and bench.

I didn't want to frame the outside of the niche b/c I'm planning an accent strip above the nice to frame the mirror. Framing the niche would be too busy. I'd rather it blend.

nbptmomto3, You do not have to lose depth in your niche. I stated the 3" depth for a niche in those articles because that is how most houses are built around here and a 1/2" sliver of tile looks horrible stuffed in the back of a niche to fill behind the bullnose, IMO. Most walls here are mainly one 3 1/2" stud with drywall on either side. This would lead to a 1/2" sliver in the back.
In part four I actually have three different niches that are deeper than the bullnose - from 1" deeper to 12" deep. If you are comfortable with the size of fill piece you need to place behind your bullnose then go for it.
Schluter Rondec bullnose is simply a metal trim made by Schluter to run around a corner. It is a rounded metal trim piece.

Roger - FloorElf

Roger, the biggest reasons are first the bit about reducing the depth of the niche because of the size of the bullnose, and secondly, because of the bit about the 13" niche and 12" tiles.

I've done several niches where I used Innovis's preformed niches, which start out at 13 1/2"x 13 1/2", and then use 12x12's and still come out at a full tile niche. Any idea how that happens? Even if I'm giving direction to someone on how to build a niche, I'll have them frame it a little oversized, just to give them a little "fudging" room. it can always be built out a little bit later.

These were all 13" niches with 12" tiles:

I'd be more worried about it being the other way around-- the hole being too SMALL for the tile used.

I didn't want to do the a marble slab in there due to the potential of staining and what-not. Agree or disagree?

If you noticed, I said granite, not marble-- just for that reason. That and etching.

OK, I understand everything except Shchluter Rondec bullnose strip.

This is a picture of it used as an edging bullnose, but it can also be used at an outcorner with tile on both sides, as well:

In this pic, it's tough to see, but the Rondec was used as a bullnose in every single outside corner, with the exception of the two pieces of bullnose-- one on either side of the window. Everything else-- around the outside perimeter of the tub, all around the steps, the two short walls-- everything was done with Rondec:

Below is a link to Rondec's web page:

Here is a link that might be useful: Schluter Rondec

Any idea how that happens??? Yes Bill, as a matter of fact I know exactly how that happens.

We simply do it different ways.

Roger, I am a simple DIY, so by no means an expert on any of this.

I wonder that perhaps you didn't finish explaining the Kerdi application for the inside of the niche? I realize you were addressing the tiling aspect of niche planning.

My limited understanding of the use of the membrane is that in order to provide the waterproof envelope, all edges must overlap 2", Your photo shows raw drywall edge, and raw wood.

If your intent was not to show that pic as a finished look at the kerdi'd niche, you may just want to point that out.

Of course, I could be totally misunderstanding, in which case my humblest apologies!

Here is a link that might be useful:

Aahhh, I'm sorry, that is my fault. I need to label that NOT WATERPROOF, because you are absolutely correct, that is NOT the correct way to waterproof the niche. As you stated - that's not even close. :-)

The reason there is Kerdi on the back of the niche, and only on the back, is simply because that is the part I've cut out to create the niche. I use that piece for the back (just because it's there and the right size). It has nothing at all to do with waterproofing. Absolutely my fault for not labeling that. I will change that. Thank you.

The correct way to waterproof the niche is in part 2. Part one only deals with lining it up and sizing it. Part 2 is waterproofing with a single Kerdi piece.

Here is a link that might be useful: Building a shower niche - Part 2 - Waterproofing

That's the beauty of Kerdi, there are 100 ways to skin the cat as long as you get proper overlap.

The only questions I have are:

Is there any overlap at all at the corners in the yellow circles?

Is the left "red" overlap 2"? The right one was shown as 2", but the left side looks like it's been cut down to fit into the corner.

The blue dots are roughly where the drywall screws were driven through the bottom layer of Kerdi to secure the niche framing. I'd want 2" of overlap between the Kerdi seam the the drywall screw.

The red and blue are somewhat minor technicalities on that wall, but I'd definitely want the yellow to be watertight.

Roger, trust me, I'm not trying to pick on you. If those details, especially the yellow circles, are different in real life versus how they appear in the photo, then all is well.

Hey Mongoct,

The left does overlap 2", it shoots around the corner about 1/4", you just can't see it from that angle. I usually won't have them that close to the corner but sometimes the framing absolutely dictates it.
The kerdi does not drop 2" below the screws. I just don't do that, dunno why. Perhaps I should start.
You have chosen the photo without the flaps done yet - they actually kick back a bit to cover those corners, just barely though. It is not a 2" overlap there in the corners. Everything around it is a 2" overlap. It is the same concept as an inside corner. There may be a 'pinhole', which is not really a 'hole', just a spot that doesn't overlap 2", doesn't mean it isn't waterproof. That is exactly how they did it at Schluter and that's how I do it. I will sometimes place extra squares there to cover those corners, just depends on how I feel about it. If they can waterproof a cardboard box in that manner I feel confident using it in a shower.
I know you're not trying to pick on me :-), like you said there are several different ways to do it. I don't mean to sound defensive, these methods are simply how I do it. Everyone has their own way.

Ever use the premade corners? That's a spot where I'll use them, especially on the two bottom corners. Makes everything nice and tight.

If you do steam showers I'd encourage you to give the premade corners a try, or to at least seal that pinhole with Kerdi Fix or another urethane sealant.

You've probably seen these corners in action, but what the heck:

Yup, I like the corners. Don't always have enough, though. The drain only comes with a few of them and they usually get used on the curb and benches - everything in the bottom half of the shower.
I usually do steam showers with liquid but when I do use kerdi I use preformed corners on everything - always.
Nice niche.

That's the niche I copied!

ÂNow, back to the original question. Remember, the bullnose offered is 4". The depth of the niche now is 5 1/2 with just cement board. It needs a few layers of stuff including tile on the back wall which would bring it up to...?

ÂIn some of the pictures, it looks like you didn't use bullnose?

ÂWe're using full/through body porcelain tiles, would you "round" them to make your own bullnose tiles? How would the unfinished edge look? The rest of the tile is quite glossy.

ÂI don't want to frame the niche with the bullnose on the outside wall (as opposed to the inside of the niche) because of the mosaic decorative border which will run 6" or so above the niche and around the built-in mirror.

ÂI am bothered by how neat your niches are and the potential of mine being messy.

Hey nbptmomto3,

The niche will still be 5 1/2" deep when you get all the layers of stuff on it. Anything you put on the back wall of the niche, waterproofing layer, tile, etc., will also be on the wall of your shower outside the niche. So any thickness you add to your back wall will also be on the wall around the niche. It will stay at 5 1/2".

Not sure which pictures you mean? Mine, Bill's? You can do as Bill mentioned and use the Rondec (metal trim) around the niche.

With through body porcelain tile you can bullnose them and the unfinished edge will be a bit dull on the bullnose compared to the rest of the tile but I think it looks fine. I have actually used Aquamix's grout colorant on a bullnose edge to make them 'shiny'. The shower I used it in looks the same three years later as the day it was finished. The grout colorant is a durable coating for a small application. (I'm sure someone will disagree with that)

You can also place a fill piece behind your 4" bullnose - a 1 1/2" fill looks fine.

Just take your time with it and it will come out neatly. It's usually people's tendency to rush through things that lead to the mess. :-)

The depth of the niche now is 5 1/2 with just cement board. It needs a few layers of stuff including tile on the back wall which would bring it up to...?

You COULD actually increase the size of that piece by 1/2" by removing the piece of cement board from the back of the niche, and just using the back of the wall board from the other side of the wall as the back of your niche. You're going to be waterproofing it anyway, so it doesn't really matter if you put a second thickness of wallboard (in this case, cement board) back there. 9 times out of 10, I'll do just that-- waterproof the back of the other wall.