I would post your question on the kitchen forum, as well, and make sure you talk about the size of your island, relative placement in the kitchen & what you expect to use it for.

The major issue with having the rangetop/cooktop (did you really mean slide in range?) in the island is ventilation & potential spattering of people sitting at the island when you cook.

One way to mitigate the issue of a messy sink in the island is to have a bar that hides all of that. There are downsides to that option since some people don't like sitting on bar height stools and now the island countertop may be less flexible since it isn't at one height.

For the kind of cooking I do (sauteing, searing, simmering sauces, etc.) I wouldn't want my rangetop in the island. If that isn't the sort of thing you do, then this might not be an issue for you. That is why I suggest adding more specifics about your usage if you post to the kitchen forum.

Here is a link that might be useful: Kitchen Forum

we will have a cooktop and a prep sink in the island.

You will have a BIG island, right?
Because if your island is big enough, it can be GREAT!
But if not...

I think we are going to have a sink in the island, although my kitchen designer is working on the final plan and I won't see it until Friday.

I have always had a kitchen with the sink under a big window. In my new kitchen, the spot that could have had a sink and window is the least private part of the house (looks out to the neighbors) and it is north facing so it doesn't get great light. So, the thought was to put the range on this wall, with a vent hood as a focal point, and windows on either side; and the sink on the island, facing out to the kitchen table, and beyond that the garden. I think it will be nice to get to face out into the kitchen while at the sink, and while preparing meals. I am planning on getting a deep single bowl sink so I can hide dirty dishes if need be, but I think wherever you have dirty dishes - whether it be the island or wherever - they make a kitchen look messy. The soap dispenser is a good point, though.

We decided on a modest island, no separate sink(plumbing) or cooktop (240 volt). Just didn't think the cost/benefit ratio was right, plus my goal was to not let the house expand in sq ft unless needed. So we use the island either for laying stuff temprarily or for prepping buffet meals. If I had to do it again I would have 120 volt for that occasional convenience. Our island is at a lower height to accomodate shorter people. Counter heights are mostly established by men and theyre taller. The island has three drawers on one side and a trash cubbyhole on the end. It's so nice not having to look at a trash container after dressing up the kitchen.

My preference is neither, for the reasons you say. In fact, we redesigned the whole left side of my house so I could have a kitchen sink with a pretty view . . . it was not easy! I think honestly there is clutter around both the sink and stove during most dinners, so I am not sure if that solves the problem either. A deep bowl would help, and the soap issue explains why sometimes you see island sinks with 6 things attached to them (bridge faucet, sprayer, soap dispenser, etc.) I guess it is easier to move the clutter off the stove to the sink after you serve the plates?

A small raised bar would hide it and can be a great solution, depending on how you are going to use your island. It does take away from using your island for serving buffets, etc. though.

I think my island will have nothing on it, but possible a prep sink. I did read that folks with sinks in their island (prep or regular) can fill them up with ice and use them as a wine cooler during parties :)

Another thing to think about - I often have things hand drying by my sink (like wineglasses, or fruit and veggies which have been washed but aren't dry enough to put away, etc.) They don't stay out for too long (I am slightly neurotic about neatness :) but there seems to always be something there . . . The stove doesn't have the same issue. It would be less obtrusive if your sink was not in the island. . .

I try to leave the island clear as a work surface, a family gathering place, and a food serving area for parties and holidays.

If I can, I put the sink at a window and the range against a wall with a hood and a washable wall surface. Prep sinks are ok in the island if they are small and not in the prime working area.

I first was going to have my range on the wall, bought the hood, then many months later heard the feng shui thing that it is better to have it facing the doorway so you can see people coming into the kitchen.

So I briefly entertained the idea of moving it to the island. But then remembered I already bought the wall hood.

But for me, I rarely stand at the stove. I put stuff on, come back once in a great while to stir or flip, then off again. I was also concerned about the splatter, either hitting someone, or landing on whatever was on the other side of the island, etc.

I think I have arranged the Frig-Sink-Island so that I can prep in either area without much fuss. (but time will tell) And this will keep me facing my doorways and visit with any guests.

I do have another little sink in the coffee area. I also have a potfiller if I need water in a pinch at the stove.

So my island will be free of anything.

That's a very pretty kitchen Macv, but unless there's another sink there, it would be a PITA to cook in!

I see stools -- so imagine folks sitting there while the cook works. Imagine the cook's journey as she goes to fridge to get veggies, then to the sink to wash them ("'scuce me - oops - can you squeeze in a bit?"). Trims and chops them where? (Island is full of people, so can't work there. OK - work by sink with back to guests.) OK, throw the veggies into pot on the range. Oops - need some butter -- to the fridge. (Trek around island then back.) Watch what's cooking -- back to guests again.

Personally, I call those 'barriar islands'. Beautiful spaces designed by architects who don't actually cook.

Thanks for the advice.

I have a sink in my island and love it. I can look out to the lake or into the great room/TV. Company gathers around on holidays and I can use it as a sideboard, along with hutch counter to left of fridge.

As you can see in the first picture, I have my yellow ceramic paper towel jar (Workshop of David T Smith) and a handsoap dispenser (just replaced with a copper one). Usually I have an oil jar holding dish liquid out, but I've yet to find one that "goes with" my kitchen, so I took it out while taking photos.

I keep white racks in my sink. Sponge and brush stay in left sink. I wash pots/pans, etc as I cook, so no huge mess at one time. Usually prep dishes are put away before company even arrives. I also leave dishrag to left of sink. May have a wet one hanging on range handle until it dries, to move to laundry room.

Our last kitchen was U shaped with cooktop/under counter oven facing breakfast room. Sink was at window. I like this kitchen much better that that one, and not just because it's bigger/nicer.

Here is a link that might be useful: island with sink

sweeby, I guess it would depend on where the refrigerator is. I assumed it was on the same side as the stove, so I don't see this as a barrier island. It some ways it is similar to our current kitchen, and it works well. We did have a kitchen where the stove and sink were opposite each other with an island in the middle, and that I did consider a barrier island.

Nice kitchen, Macv! My kitchen is set up similar to Macv's with no range or sink in the island, but my island is deeper. The fridge is on the same side as the rangetop and I have no problems whatsoever with entertaining my friends and cooking at the same time.

Like Dekeoboe said, it depends where the fridge is situated.

Here is the before photo. The owner was tired of having no storage, walking across the kitchen to the refrigerator and having no room for his family to join him.

I don't design kitchens for myself but for clients. I've been doing this for 40 years and only two of my clients wanted a prep sink in an island and another one asked that an existing prep sink in an island be removed and a new top be made as well as a drawer to replace the blank drawer front. People have strong feeling about these issues and I accommodate them.

The family that lives in the house shown earlier did not care about entertaining but wanted their 3 kids to be able to use one side of the kitchen while their father (the sole cook in the family) had free use of the other side. He said he preferred additional drawers to a prep sink so that is what he got.

Kitchens are very personal spaces and no one cooks or feeds their family in the same way. Therefore, there are no rules that apply to all cases contrary to the opinions expressed in home improvement magazines and internet chat rooms.

As for my skill in the kitchen, it was pretty good until I married a really good cook and my son became a professional chef. I don't get to cook much but I certainly get to watch some pretty highly skilled people on a regular basis.

This is a kitchen I designed with a prep sink but the island was not intended for family use since their kids were grown and they don't entertain in their kitchen (ie they're my age).

These kitchens are beautiful but violate a design rule I've read about for forty years....the sink, fridge, range in a triangle, not too far apart.

It's a specious rule repeated endlessly in magazine articles and how-to books.

The above designs are in existing houses where there are many other constraints. Exterior views, access, and zoning of kitchen activities rarely accommodate simplistic rules.

Putting a sink or stove in an island is the issue raised by the OP and that can often bring the appliances closer together but puts these appliances directly in front of people who sit at the island (if that is the intention of the design). In that case I find it unpleasant to sit in front of a stove with food cooking on it or in front of a sink with dirty dishes in it not to mention being sprayed with grease or water and so do most of my clients. Walking a few steps is often the better solution but in the end it's something my clients decide.

Anyway, I didn't intend to get into a boring kitchen design discussion only to offer my experience in the matter. Show me a kitchen you designed.

The obvious flaw in the triangle rule is that a cook does not travel between just those three points but also to work surfaces, multiple cabinets, pot drawers, pantries, and trash/recycling bins. I don't have the luxury of following rules; I have to consider the functionality of the entire kitchen space.

If there were only three work nodes in a kitchen they could be jammed together cheek by jowl but to allow for the real number of nodes the idealized traffic pattern would be more like an octagon with each node connected to each other.

Since all of these points can't be close to each other in a real kitchen, there are many possibilities for reasonable arrangements depending. of course, on the preferences of the owner.

As I said before I don't design kitchens for myself (or for magazines) but for my clients. If I had to design the ideal kitchen I wouldn't know were to begin.

I can't believe this topic has gone this far. The work triangle is dead for all Macv's reasons. We just custom built a kitchen with a prep sink in the island in case anyone is taking roll. My wife is a culinary trained chef.

Range in an island? My thought are you've got to be kidding - splatters and ventilation and fire risk. I don't think they make too many hoods with real power for an island (that aren't crazy $$). When you are cooking, do you really want someone to be able to reach over from the other side?

Since I haven't seen it mentioned, there is the relatively minor issue of venting a sink in an island.

This is truly a kitchen forum discussion but I think it has been completely hashed out there.

I prefer an island with nothing. Unless it is large enough for people to sit and not be looking directly into your sink or stove. Our plan doesn't have an island, but a bar and it has the sink in the corner of the bar and I we will be changing that. As hard as I try, I always have something by the sink. Our kids eat breakfast and lunch at our bar so I use that space to prepare meals. When we entertain, I stand behind the bar and everyone is sitting at the bar. I serve appetizers and snacks on it. For me, a sink would be in the way. I guess it's a matter of how you use your space.

I guess it's a matter of how you use your space.

Exactly.

Our architect had the kitchen drawn with a raised bar island. I don't care for them and did not want one in my home, so I changed to one level. Also did not want island seating. I don't miss either.

Every decision you make when planning a kitchen is personal preference - whether for aesthetics, function or financial reasons.

I would avoid having anything on the island, but if it is unavoidable then I would put the sink there. I would not want to be using the range and have anyone sitting there. Too dangerous, IMO.

I think the kitchen triangle is a nice idea, but consider the rules flexible. My kitchen has the range on the short part of the L and the sink and fridge on the long part (with the fridge being at the end). It is not an equilateral triangle. Mnay people seem to be worried about how many steps they take. Are we really that lazy that we can't WALK anymore? Someone posted they wanted their island too close to the perimeter cabinets because they didn't want to take an extra step. I just don't get it. My pantry is completely outside the triangle, as are my ovens. Not inconvenient at all. People want massive kitchens, but they expect to somehow not have to walk around them.

Oops - my bad! I did assume the fridge was on the other wall.

With the fridge on the range wall, the work flow is much better; though I'd still prefer it if the island had a prep sink. That way, the cook could visit with the kids, which was a big priority for me in my space.

That kitchen with the diamond windows is gorgeous! Is that one of yours Macv?

MacV is so right. Rules mean nothing if they don't work for you, the way you work. I realized recently that my MIL's kitchen (in her high-end home) completely violates the work triangle rule. She's had many homes and designed this one the way she wanted it, and it works great for all of us who use it.

My current kitchen designer is pushing an island cooktop, and I'm now going to nix it.
: ) Thanks, all.

Before you nix it completely, you might want to read this recent thread from the Kitchens forum: Cooktop in Island - love it or hate it?

This is one of those areas where folks have very strong feelings on all sides. You really need to think about the way you cook and interact with the rest of the house and family to decide what is best for you. As you will see  lots of folks love their cooktop in their island.

Vent hoods seem to be the problem with cook tops in islands.

If they are low enough to be effective they intrude, and if high enough to be well above line of sight they are not very effective (even at noisy high speed).

My reason for not having a cooktop on my island is one that has not been mentioned here... I don't think. My children are always sitting on stools at the island. I did not want burners and hot pots easily reached by little hands. I opted for the sink.

I agree you have to think about the way you cook. I have a 9 ft island, there is an 18.5" overhang for eating (more at ends) with 13" knee space. The center 5ft is dropped 3" (bathroom vanity), I had originally thought about putting a prep sink there but there was the venting issue (which could be overcome), and I decided I'd rather have the storage underneath and the counterspace up top. We have the coffeemaker on on end of the 5ft dropped counter, but other than that the rest is all prep space. Comes in handy for baking! We tucked plugmold under the overhang so I can plug in a mixer, chopper, blender, crockpot, what have you, anywhere along that 5 ft and have it out of the way of little ones coloring at the upper (regular height) counter. DH also really enjoys having the lower countertop to put the griddle and serving pancakes right up onto the eating area. But that doesn't have the splatter issues that a range does.

I really like the few pics I've seen on macv's kitchen designs - the only thing that wouldn't work for me would be the long walk with a pot of boiling water from the range to the sink in the first pic. My sink is 3ft to the side of my range and that's about as far as I would want it. A prep sink would allow me to pivot and drain, but I'm afraid I might run into DH (the kids know to keep out of the work aisle while the stove/oven is on - they have to go around the island to the fridge or the silverware drawer).

I just have to chime in here, because we just finished with our new house. The most common thing I heard from the "mothers" in my life, while I was designing my kitchen, was "don't forget about the triangle rule". That's a fine rule if just one person is in the kitchen. But goodness, you put anyone else in there, and you're bumping into each other every 5 seconds. My mom was appalled when she saw the size and layout of my kitchen. I just keep saying "to each his own".

To the OP: you have to cook-- and live-- in your kitchen. You also have to go with what you know you can handle. If you think you'll hate seeing dishes and stuff piled there, picture your messiest kitchen moment and multiply that feeling by the number of years you will use that kitchen. In 10 years, will you be losing your mind? Probably. I, personally, lost my mind during the building of our home. :)

I chose a deep single-bowl farm sink, in a peninsula with a raised bar. A peninsula because I don't want people walking through the kitchen. You stay on your side, and I'll stay on mine! LOL There's also a dishwasher and trash compactor there. The raised bar gives me a little hiding power, the ability to communicate with anyone that sits there, and it's open to the great room. My cooktop is behind me as I stand at the sink. I'm not one to flame things in front of guests, or flip things high in the pan. If I was, I probably would have put my cooktop front and center. My mom thinks I'm ridiculous for putting a decorative tile design above the cooktop, because "do you really want to draw attention to a dirty cooktop?" To which I have to say "I beg your pardon, I was taught better than to have a dirty cooktop". That always shuts her up.

Certainly this is a passionate subject. It's always great to hear people's experiences, but you do have to go with your gut. And anything that "sorta" bothers you now...will really bother you later.

Forget the "sink-range-fridge" triangle, you just need landing/prep zones and a reasonable distance b/t range and sink for draining. My fridge is nowhere near my range, but I have the island right behind and that sunken prep counter just a couple of feet around the corner of the island, so pulling eggs, veggies, etc. out of fridge to cook is not a big deal. My DW is on one side of the sink and range is 3ft away on the other side, with cutting boards, pots and pans stored in drawers between. Measuring cups, spoons, cookie sheets, muffin pans, small appliances are in the island.

macv - how wide is that deep pantry (I assume it's a pantry with double or bifold doors) in the floor plan? My builder claimed my 3ft wide pantry (30" wide door) was too narrow to make deeper than 2ft. Of course then I'd lose some out of my 7ft wide coat closet that backs up to it, but I was thinking that I could have narrow shelves on either side, or shelves along one side and the back, and actusally have more sf of shelf space. I lose things in the back of the 16" deep shelves there now. Since I can stand in 1ft wide spot b/t DW and counter I was thinking I wouldn't need much open floor space in pantry (not unless I planned on storing Kitchenaid in there and then turning around while holding it to walk back out).

My feeling is as many have said already it depends on the design of the house , new ? existing /remodel etc. The size of the house and family size and ages. Is the kitchen open and have views outward or to an open area or family room /dinette etc ? I find most of my clients, if the island is large enough prefer the sink in the island with raised eating bar that hides clutter but is large enough to eat without kids knocking glasses and plates off the back. The sink is used most and the cook is more likely to face the guests,views, kids eating, doing homework on the bar or nearby table. The issue of cooking on the island is one of a vent hood potentially blocking views, the issue of hot grease, smoke, heat etc as a barrier to those close by. I like to then ( if room) have a separate veg sink or even a 2 bowl sink at window on outside wall for light and views and the range /vent on wall where hoods can be decorative and pot fillers and tiled walls allow for cleaning. Any Under counter ref. outside the workspace allows for fewer workplace interuptions. The old work triangle I believe made more sense in older kitchens when they were more isolated and we were more likely to have one cook. Today we tend to have more and specialized appliances, multiple cooks, entertain more, and generally want larger kitchens that dont allow for the old rule to even apply. Obviously this is all personal choice and there are many exceptions for many reasons. Here are a few examples I have had.
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I'm sorry but I feel the triangle has alot of merit, if possible. Dishwasher by the sink for ease. Fridge near the sink, transporting veggies between each at a minimum, the range less so but needs space to set stuff coming off range/oven, that's where my sinkless-island is great. My pantry isn't right up close, but the closer the better. For me it's a once a week trip bringing in food and restocking, daily needs of food are from fridge, lazy susan, and such.

bigkahuna - I noticed the huge island, but I was distracted by the *ceiling*! Is that your house?

Ajsmama, No it is the home of a client. She wanted to have fun with some beams and ceilng treatments and we did! Its 10' with beams at 9'.

bigkahuna----Thanks for the beautiful inspiration picture with the ceilings, wowweeee:) Do you happen to have even a very rought sketch of the floor plan in relation to the kitchen layout. Looks very interesting, in a good way!

I will see what I can do. I believe I can post a plan. I will look on Sun or Mon

Still digging up that plan but here is another layout showing a variation on the layouts discussed. This is pretty close to being finished and just getting unpacked and organized.

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WOW! Thanks for some more eye candy....appreciate it all:) How nice to see a prep sink on the perimeter with just one, "not centered" window----so many options, clever!

Mommyto4boys, Here is the plan you were asking about above. I also saw in another thread youre now a mom of 5.. That is a growing family you have there... I happen to be from a family of 7 boys-2 girls so I can relate ! Of course I grew up in a house that would fit in many of the kitchen and family rooms I now get to design !

Thanks, so much for the plans. Lots I like, similar in many ways to some of our ideas. We are fond of angled garages too. I knew when I saw the pictures that it was enticing for me:) So many decisions. We love being a larger family! Keep designing and sharing these beautiful spaces!

bigkahuna - would you mind taking a look at my post on the kitchen forum and giving me your ideas/feedback. Celticmoon and others had amazing ideas and designs, but I'm not quite settled on it yet. Would love other ideas and options. Thanks in advance.

Cmill, Check your thread

Bigkahuna--can you tell me about your wall ovens? Is one a microwave?

Thanks

Tracey, They are GE Monogram. ZET1 line of oven. Search the appliance thread I found very positive feedback on size, even baking on all racks, 3 rolling racks, can be left in during self clean( most cant), Temp probe and preheat accuracy and looks. The top one is the Advantium 240 speedcook microwave( Halogen light and m/w cooking). Again you will find mostly very positive reviews. So far my GF loves hers as it cooks fast, things are juicey, moist browned etc. The newest version has a 16" turntable that hers is lacking. She has been using them just a few weeks so have no long history with them. We were able to find them both on ebay for about half price if you are patient and check back daily for a while.

I have an island of sort of three-way-mirror design, with the sink in the middle third. I hate it! The most valuable work space is chopped up without either side being very large. So effectively my only workspace is the size of the dishwasher because it's on top of the dishwasher, which is wretched if you need to make pastry or work with dough when the machine is running. Some of the (gorgeous!) pictures above are so long that this is not a problem.