My bet is, if we had to do it again, we could probably have paid about $500 less, if we'd really pushed. [snip] I wish people could just be totally honest and we wouldn't have to play these games. Good ol' hindsight -- always 20/20! :-) Seriously, yes, you probably could have done better. But that likely would have taken far more time and information than you could spend. I know the insides don't really matter.......but this thing was like new inside. I hope the engine, etc. is the same way! The insides do matter. First, it's most of what you see when you're in the car. Second, if the inside was well-cared-for, the rest of the car should have been, too. But, in the future, you really should have a prospective used car examined by a mechanic you trust to make sure you're getting the deal you think you are. I have another question for you. I'm seeing some really low-priced cars that only have something like 25,000 miles on them. Can we read anything into that? Why so cheap?? The market for most used cars has softened considerably. Incentives on new cars (0% financing, rebates) and cheap leases made the price differences between used and new cars marginal and so people bought or leased new cars. With the continual incentives for new vehicls, used cars flooded the market. Speaking of flooding, there undoubtedly will be a bunch of cars from Katrina-stricken areas which some unscrupulous people will attempt to fix and sell off with a -- er, washed -- title. Those cars will be cheap to keep them moving. Also, most of these cars had a big yellow sign on them that said "No hassle pricing". To me, that means they just don't want to deal. What does it usually mean?? I think that statement is just plain silly. Are we stupid or what?? Are we supposed to think "Oh, how nice! We can just pay the asking price and have no hassles!" hahaha (We're stupid, but not that stupid) Lots of people enjoy haggling for a car as much as they enjoy getting root canal. Personally, I would venture that most of Saturn's success comes from their no-hassle, we're-all-friends-here demeanor, because it certainly isn't the cars or the great deals that keep people coming back. "No hassle" is an attempt to bring the price down some from full list to let buyers think they're getting a deal -- which they are, without the usual confrontational aspects of negotiationg; just not as much as possible. It should also be a little cheaper for the dealership because they don't have to burden their sales reps with so much dead time spent "speaking to the manager" -- they can be out selling cars. You'll notice that no one offers "no hassle" trade-ins (not even Saturn). Besides, how many things do you buy for which you actually negotiate? Groceries? Patio furniture? Insurance? Mortgages? In a way, "no-hassle" puts car-buying on the order of buying something in a department store. Don't like the price? Don't buy. I guess I was naive in thinking that it was safer to buy a used car from a reputable dealer. Am I totally wrong on that? The dealer has been nothing but honest and above-board with me on a regular basis. I've even taken my Odyssey in for weird things I've noticed, and they've checked it, and said nothing was wrong, when they could have ripped me off (like the volvo dealer used to). Maybe I should only feel good about buying their used cars, if they are precertified? Some manufacturers put limits on the cars they will sell "precertified" -- like how old the car is, how many miles it has,.... Just because a car is not certified does not mean it's bad -- though I would think less of a two- or three-year-old Civic sold by a Honda dealer that wasn't certified because that certification is worth more to the dealer. And the salesman said he couldn't do any dealing at all on the warranty....when we asked it to be included in our price. Of course, we just lowered what we wanted to give for the car, but have you heard of that before....that they don't include those in "the deal"? Well, maybe he couldn't deal on the warranty. But I'll bet someone at the dealership could. I've done it (and still refused the warranty). And I could see why the dealer would not be tripping over himself to swallow the cost of a "$1200" warranty in the price of an $8,000 car. I hate buying cars.......new or used. The reality of everything is just so variable! You've just provided Reason #16 why people like "no-hassle" pricing. :-) Buying a car anymore is a considerable investment. We all want to make sure we get it right. Having to haggle over the price when you don't know the real cost makes it that much more difficult.

Thank you all for helping me through my terrible, horrible, very bad, no good day. I love the way many of you suggested that the universe was getting all the bad things out of its system and sunny days were surely on the horizon. Today actually was much better. I can't express how much all your comments meant to me while I was throwing myself a pity party. I did want to make sure to share some of the positive things that have happened last night and today. My sweet son saved me a cupcake from his V-Day party. DH's grandmother who has been in the hospital for a week has improved and has been moved to a rehab facility. No damage was done to my car. My students did take roll and ask about me when I was late. My best teacher friend shared her orange with me at lunch. I'm finally getting my ESL endorsement added to my teaching license. My principal moved my observation back a day because of a meeting he had to attend. Thanks again for the kind words, especially the comment about my writing. That really made me smile. One of my long term goals is to write a book. I just can't figure out what I would write about and who would want to read it. :)~

Asking for rental agreements, birth certificates and lunch menus is all well and good but I'm highly doubtful they're going to send this to you just because you request it, unless you use a subpoena. I personally would be very annoyed with a company sending out *my* contracts to every Tom, Dick and Harriet who requests it because they don't want to pay a bill, whether the bill is valid or not. AFAIC that's private data between the company and me and giving that out could be a potential violation of data privacy. I'm not sure they can give it out like that. The big question is how much time, effort and money will you spend on this? I'd definitely be looking at the paperwork, who signed it, who checked it in and the like. You could subpoena the the person checking it in to testify or at least get a deposition and/or affidavit about it. Likely they won't remember much, especially if they want to keep their job, if they're still employed there. Trying to track them down if they're gone, well that might not be easy or cheap either. Did you agree to arbitration for dispute resolution? What state's laws control the contract? This can make a difference too if you want to go that far. Fine print usually has a number of quirks in it. If you live in Texas and agreed that Delaware's laws will apply, that can be another monkey wrench tossed in. I do think you're doing the right thing to take the position that they haven't proven anything to you. (They who assert must prove.) Have they sent any estimate from a repair shop or is it just their standard claim amount? $500 isn't much damage. Scratches, small dent or two will hit $500 these days. I'd be going above the person sending this. I'd also go back to the person who initially agreed to drop it. Did you document time, date, etc and did they put it in writing that they'd drop it? I'd look over the contract too and see if there's any time-frame that could help you. How long do they have to make a claim and such. I certainly wouldn't go off saying you're representing yourself or anything like that since that's redundant. Obviously you're representing yourself. I highly doubt they'll take you to conciliation court. It's not worth it to them either. They'll probably just badger you, try screwing with your credit and the like and of course the dunning letters to get you to give in. You actually have some proof in your favor right now. They supplied you with a photo that apparently shows no damage. I'd use that to my benefit too, send it to the hierarchy and say this is proof that the vehicle wasn't damaged by you. Or save it for the credit agencies and collection agents. two.25acres raised good points. Comp claims won't normally count against you and *if* you're satisfied that the damage occurred while in your possession, since in reality a rock could have flown off a truck or something, it wouldn't be too big a deal and insurance companies like to split the difference a lot so they'd likely settle for a couple hundred. This is something you could negotiate too. You could offer them $100 to resolve it, with no admission of liability and to resolve it too, but I'd be sure to make it clear that this is just offered as a resolution and that you're fully satisfied that you're not liable, will be proven as such in court, etc. Let's face it, involving a lawyer is not a financially prudent thing to do. You'll pay far more than $500 to use an attorney and may well still be found liable. You won't get even an inexperienced lawyer for $500 since this will involve far more than an hour or two and that's what they bank on when they do this stuff. If you have a check-in statement with an inspection or release and coupled with the pictures you have, you could be in good shape. If you don't, you might be in trouble. Not right, but the way things go. But again, I'd go back to the one with whom you had the agreement and work that end first. Good luck.

Not going anywhere and do not miss it. Except for a couple 2-3 days in the CatskillMountains, then back here for 4-5, re-peat. I can get everything delivered and much better than even whole foods. Cheaper. They stock/support local farms much more than any grocery. Win-win. Masks are required/mandatory by law. No one allowed in a store without. I'm seeing about 95% + in my county and it seems NYC is doing close to that. I do hope the next phase Monday does not create a spike. Masks are everywhere free and lots of mask vending machines. Even our grocery delivery will send 5 free masks with every order. I wish every state did what we did. Cuomo's last public address yesterday expressed the fear of visits from other places will bring it back here. So many states are spiking now.