sure - we know more than kitchen Aid.

sjb3ip:

Yes... use the search or go through first few pages.. it was asked and responded.

Model for the KA Watersoftner model is KUDE70FX SS and PA
40dBa.

I believe it is the KUDE60SXSS, not the FX model. I just did an insane amount of research about KA dishwashers, so here's the breakdown:

KUDE60SXSS is the new one, coming soon, with the water softener.

The KUDE60 and KUDE70 are the same machines, but the 70 has more insulation and is 6 db quieter.

The FX models (KUDE60FX and KUDE70FX) are the currently available models, with the Pro-Dry feature (heat dry + fan assist) and the vent on the side (stays closed for 4 hrs after the cycle). The heating coil is also recessed, making it less likely to melt plastics in the bottom rack.

The FV models (KUDE60FV and KUDE70FV) are the older models, often found at very deep discounts, without the fan-assisted Pro-Dry. They still have heated dry, Pro-Scrub, everything else except the fan. The heating coil is not recessed but sticks up a bit into the bottom. The vent is on top (vents to your countertop) and opens only 4 hours after the cycle. If your countertop is not heat-resistant, you may want to skip this model.

Here's the thread about the KUDE60SXSS.

Here is a link that might be useful: Do water softeners improve dishwasher performance?

wooops tress21 is correct... kude60SX ss only avail.

has led status display and water softener... avail 1st quarter of 2011.

tress21 you forgot the KUDE60HX with the ultra handle.

thank you jmith and tress21. i had actually seen that thread, but when i first went to pacific sales and asked about the kude60, i was told there was no such thing. then when i went back they called the rep and confirmed it did exist and would be available in may. so the question now is, is it worth the extra $$$ for the softener or just deal with the water hardness by using lemi-shine with every load? all thoughts and help are greatly appreciated!!!

Umm....May I ask what the water hardness at your location is? Without knowing that, seems to me any other consideration having to do with water softening are somewhat pointless.

The hardness is 16.4 grains per gallon.

That's serious hard. You're going to be having other issues as time goes by. Have you considered whole-house unit as opposed to device-at-a-time? I would recommend it.

Since I have a Kinetico softner I think I am going to go with the KitchenAid KUDE60HXSS. I really like the Ultra Handle. Does anyone else have that model? It seems to be a special order model a lot of places.

Also what detergent are you using for small loads? I like the Quantum Finnish but it is overkill for small loads. I guess I could go with Finnish powder or maybe just the store brand.

Asolo is right, 16 grains of hardness will make problems with your pipes and your laundry will not be truly clean. You should spend the money for a whole house water softener, no brainer.

i "3RD" asolo's suggestion about a whole house water softener. We live in Orange County Calif, our water comes- -(well it usta)--out of the faucet in "Chunks".
It Totalled our KA Superba in 9 years or so, it looked like snow inside the thing, got on impellers, soap Dispenser, racks etc etc finally took out the pump.

There's "NO WAY", I would subject a brand new Miele, or a KA to that again, so we added a whole house water softener to the hot side only and the DW is hooked up to the hot side. It stays spotless inside as do all the faucets that are connected to the hot side.

The cold side is another matter, lime everywhere, I will have to run a bypass to the back yard for the lawn (That's why I didn't connect the Water Softener to both sides), but after seeing the difference between hot and cold, I gonna spend the money!

Gary

designergrey....."I like the Quantum Finnish but it is overkill for small loads."

I agree -- "overkill".

Like you, I have soft water via Kinetico. New Whirlpool dishwasher came with Finish Quantum samples. These things are 3-4x overkill for even full dirty load with soft water...and you can't divide them.....and they're expensive.

Been experimenting in the two months since new machine installed. For full dirty loads, I've settled on scant teaspoon prewash plus heaping teaspoon main wash Cascade Complete powder without phosphate. Use "normal" cycle which heats water to 120 only. Excellent results every time. For small loads or lightly soiled loads, I cut the amount.

The machine it replaced used just about twice as much water....and I was using just about twice as much detergent for the same result.

Soft water is wonderful stuff. However, if you use "normal" amount of detergent, as you would with hard water, you're going to get etching over time. Most folks don't understand this and the product purveyors aren't much help. For example, right on the Cascade box it says: "For best results, fill both pre-wash and the main wash cups completely." Without considering water quality in use, that's completely nuts! For soft water users, that's about 4-6x overkill.

how much does a home softening system cost? is it hard to rinse your hands from soap or your hair from shampoo?

sjb31p....suggest poking around and/or doing search over at plumbing forum for this info. There have been many, many posts about soft/hard water, softening, softeners, and all the various differences there.

asolo...

I have already etched all my normal glassware. I bought new silverware and glass wear from Crate & Barrel a year ago and its still sitting unopened in the box.

I will start using them when I get the new dishwasher. I have learned my lesson. It is so hard to use less detergent in the dishwasher and washing machine. But I think I am getting the hang of it.

Yo, designergrey.....It's not hard, it's just weird. It's so different from what's come before.

Basically, it's like this: The hot water (assuming soft, as you've said yours is) does almost all the work. The detergent isn't really much more than a "wetting agent" enabling instant breakdown of oily barriers. Machine doesn't matter. Assuming 120+ water, proper fill-level, and clear drain-path every machine will perform exactly like every other. We're talking hot water and detergent spraying around inside a box....there isn't much variation in what happens in there.

And, yes, if you're using too much detergent you will get etching. Happens with hard water, too, when folks put too much in there. There isn't one person in fifty who knows what their household water quality is. Without knowing, there's no telling what dosage they may use.

It cost us $35 to install the Raine softwater tank (They installed it). They change it once per month, It runs us around $25/month ---we think it's worth it---cause at our age we don't wanna be messing with salt bags.

Bath tub stays immaculately clean now, no soap scum to scrub off. You will want to use less soap in DW and everywhere else too. Only thing we have noticed is if we hand wash dishes---which we do often---You have to rinse a
bit longer to get all the soap off.

My Tenant in one of my rentals (same city as me), complained about the DW smoking, The hard water had completely coated the heating element with lime. Tenant, who is a building contractor (and pretty handy) scraped off
all the lime off the heater, no more smoking,--so I installed softwater there too---wont hafta replace DW every 3 years, not to mention cleaner tubs--etc etc!

We don't put any salt in the Miele, it does lite a red lite, but after 5 years we know how to ignor it, I guess there is a way to turn off the red lite, but it doesn't bug me.

Gary

I bought one of those FV KUDE60FVSS model from Sears during 2010 Thanksgiving for just $580. This one has pro-dry without fan-assist. I have Corian counter top. Will that be a problem?