Hi Hazel, I think it all depends on the parentage of the Vanda in question. I've included a link to "that other orchid forum" because someone there asked the very same question. The response was 3 to 5 years. I don't think the number of leaves have anything to do with determining the age of a Vanda. Vandas can drop leaves in less than desirable growing conditions and they can sit dormant without putting out new leaves for long periods of time also - most likely for the same reason. Here's a quote from The University of Georgia College of Agricultural & Environmental Science' web site. "Vandas may grow to be very large plants, sometimes 10 to 12 feet high, but they grow very slowly. A plant two feet tall may be seven or eight years old." Everything I've read on Vandas say that mature Vandas get way too big for orchid hobbiests. Do you think that you may have Vanda Ascocenda hybrids? They are smaller plants at maturity. Here's another quote "Ascocenda, the intergeneric hybrid between Vanda and Ascocentrum, a fancier may find vanda-shaped flowers borne on plants about half the size of Vanda plants. Additionally, ascocendas are free-flowering in the warm months and possess flower colors ranging from lavender and purple to fiery yellow, orange and red." If your Vandas didn't arrive in bloom or with evidence of previous spikes than it may be hard to know if it's "near blooming size" or "blooming size". I hope this helps. Here is a link that might be useful: What age to Vanda's

After lots of trying, I finally managed to bring up some early stuff from Michael's wonderful Way Back Machine link. I copied and pasted to WordPerfect and now repaste it here just for fun. What we talked about then... My husband is going crazy ... Posted by: Bev (Ont6b) on Monday, November 25, 1996 at 23:24 41 follow-ups, last one posted on Friday, November 29, 1996 at 17:55 Oh, the Weather Outside is Frightful! Posted by: Sara (MI/z5) on Monday, November 25, 1996 at 15:00 22 follow-ups, last one posted on Friday, November 29, 1996 at 17:34 I Trod On Alex Again! Posted by: Janet OH/Z6 on Friday, November 29, 1996 at 14:57 4 follow-ups, last one posted on Friday, November 29, 1996 at 17:30 If I won the Lottery Posted by: ruth anne (IL. zone 5a) on Thursday, November 21, 1996 at 17:27 13 follow-ups, last one posted on Friday, November 29, 1996 at 17:21 What is it about Martha? Posted by: judi z./(RI/Z6) on Monday, November 25, 1996 at 21:42 25 follow-ups, last one posted on Friday, November 29, 1996 at 17:01 A Thanksgiving success! Posted by: Fran on Friday, November 29, 1996 at 16:01 2 follow-ups, last one posted on Friday, November 29, 1996 at 16:31 'Tomorrow is 'Buy Nothing Day'' Posted by: Bev (Ont6b) on Thursday, November 28, 1996 at 13:01 8 follow-ups, last one posted on Friday, November 29, 1996 at 16:12 Nursery Food Posted by: Andie Rathbone Mo/Zone 6A on Saturday, November 23, 1996 at 23:06 51 follow-ups, last one posted on Friday, November 29, 1996 at 15:47 Where to meet Posted by: Clare B (MO zone 6) on Saturday, November 23, 1996 at 00:32 8 follow-ups, last one posted on Friday, November 29, 1996 at 15:32 Thankful For YOU! Posted by: Cora Lea (Iowa Z5) on Thursday, November 28, 1996 at 21:17 9 follow-ups, last one posted on Friday, November 29, 1996 at 15:21 Zinfandel Grape BONSAI by--Z- Posted by: Z CA z/9 on Thursday, November 28, 1996 at 19:16 7 follow-ups, last one posted on Friday, November 29, 1996 at 15:04 Town Celebrations Posted by: ruth anne (IL. zone 5a) on Friday, November 29, 1996 at 08:47 2 follow-ups, last one posted on Friday, November 29, 1996 at 11:52 Garden Webring Starting up Posted by: Teresa on Friday, November 29, 1996 at 08:17 Look at Kirk's Place! Posted by: Clare B (MO zone 6) on Thursday, November 28, 1996 at 23:25 Too cute for words Posted by: Fran on Wednesday, November 27, 1996 at 01:32 11 follow-ups, last one posted on Thursday, November 28, 1996 at 22:00 Grocery Store Hell Posted by: Andie Rathbone Mo/Zone 6A on Tuesday, November 26, 1996 at 20:36 22 follow-ups, last one posted on Thursday, November 28, 1996 at 21:09 Chickens Posted by: Becky GA*z7B on Tuesday, November 26, 1996 at 07:29 21 follow-ups, last one posted on Thursday, November 28, 1996 at 21:05 Essential Thanksgiving Foodstuffs Posted by: Tia (MI 5) on Wednesday, November 27, 1996 at 09:15 12 follow-ups, last one posted on Thursday, November 28, 1996 at 20:32 Object in the Sky Posted by: Skip MNZ4 on Wednesday, November 27, 1996 at 21:24 5 follow-ups, last one posted on Thursday, November 28, 1996 at 19:17 Dogs in the garden Posted by: Jean (IN Zone 5) on Wednesday, November 20, 1996 at 18:24 25 follow-ups, last one posted on Thursday, November 28, 1996 at 18:46 Too Much Party Posted by: Eduardo (LA/Z8b) on Tuesday, November 26, 1996 at 02:48 13 follow-ups, last one posted on Thursday, November 28, 1996 at 14:03 Canadian Thanksgiving Posted by: Kim Fisher on Wednesday, November 27, 1996 at 21:59 10 follow-ups, last one posted on Thursday, November 28, 1996 at 13:05 HAPPY THANKSGIVING NEIGHBORS Posted by: Doug ONT/Z5 on Wednesday, November 27, 1996 at 22:00 5 follow-ups, last one posted on Thursday, November 28, 1996 at 12:31 Black Friday Posted by: Kim Fisher on Tuesday, November 26, 1996 at 22:50 14 follow-ups, last one posted on Thursday, November 28, 1996 at 12:29 Happy Thanksgiving, One and All Posted by: ruth anne (IL. zone 5a) on Wednesday, November 27, 1996 at 19:04 3 follow-ups, last one posted on Thursday, November 28, 1996 at 12:25 What's *always* in your fridge? Posted by: Kate Lykins on Monday, November 25, 1996 at 19:34 28 follow-ups, last one posted on Thursday, November 28, 1996 at 02:26 Garden Party Trivia Posted by: Janet Menke MD/Z6 on Wednesday, November 27, 1996 at 18:48 4 follow-ups, last one posted on Thursday, November 28, 1996 at 01:36 Mint Capitol of the World? Posted by: Janet Menke MD/Z6 on Tuesday, November 26, 1996 at 21:58 4 follow-ups, last one posted on Wednesday, November 27, 1996 at 18:46 How many workers? Posted by: Andie Rathbone Mo/Zone 6A on Saturday, November 16, 1996 at 15:21 73 follow-ups, last one posted on Wednesday, November 27, 1996 at 18:33 Future Telling Posted by: Doug ONT/Z5 on Wednesday, November 20, 1996 at 13:21 39 follow-ups, last one posted on Wednesday, November 27, 1996 at 18:23 Next 30 messages... And some early Martha bashing... What is it about Martha? 1. Posted by judi z./(RI/Z6) (ezimm@ids.net) on Monday, November 25, 1996 at 21:42 On several of the sites I visit regularly, Martha is the woman we love to hate, yet we can't wait to try some of her suggestions. We make fun of them, but wouldn't miss a show or an issue. I am this way myself, but I have yet to figure out what it is that inspires such opposite responses. Call me whimsical, but I am just curious--what is it? Follow-Up Postings: What is it about Martha? Posted by: ruth anne (IL. zone 5a) (drrj@snd.softfarm.com) on Monday, November 25, 1996 at 22:24 Judi - I confess, too. She bugs the bejeebers out of me, yet I wouldn't mind having a 'summer kitchen' and the time and money to experiment with new ideas like she does. It's probably alot of things - a bit of envy, a bit of annoyance, mix in a dash of suspicion that she doesn't really do all that stuff on her own and she'd like us to think that she does, and you've got the recipe for the 'Martha Dilema'. What is it about Martha? Posted by: Fran (buckwold@cyberhighway.net) on Monday, November 25, 1996 at 22:59 In the beginning I really enjoyed all her fun ideas but as of late she has become too darn much of a "good thing" - I don't think anyone can buy off on the idea that she does all this stuff she keeps claiming she does because there aren't 40 hours in a day, nor is there 20 days in a week....but if that could be changed I'm sure Martha is the person most capable of arranging it ;) What is it about Martha? Posted by: Janet Menke MD/Z6 (menkesjg@erols.com) on Monday, November 25, 1996 at 23:03 Don't know but she has the same effect on me. I'm embarassed to admit this because I've bashed her here quite a bit myself but I have two of her books sitting on my coffee table! Worse yet when I got married the color of the bridesmaids dresses were from inspired by one of the weddings in her weddings book. What is it about Martha? Posted by: Bev (Ont6b) (waverley@hookup.net) on Monday, November 25, 1996 at 23:35 I only saw Martha for the first time earlier this year. I don't think she's been in Canada all that long but I could be wrong on that. At first I thought that she was OK. I liked her show on Oriental Poppies and that basket to die for! Now I find that she mugs for the camera too much and really gets on my nerves. I can only watch her when noone else is home as they all hate her. My daughter really dislikes Lynette Jennings, especially her voice. Really, who would be having a dinner party, go to their garden to pick nice flowers and then not have a vase/jar or some kind of vessel so have to use potatoes to put them in? Please. What is it about Martha? Posted by: Kate Lykins (klykins@roman.net) on Tuesday, November 26, 1996 at 00:56 Strange as it may seem, I've only seen her show once. I have her Christmas book because it was easier to pay for it than send it back - it was sent to me unsolicited. It's a pretty book and has some things worth doing, I think. The one show I saw was fine, too. But I have read about her overdone style, seen parodies, etc. I think we want to bash her because she's overexposed. She should lay low for a while. (It wouldn't hurt if she could be a little less perfect, either.) What is it about Martha? Posted by: Fran (buckwold@cyberhighway.net) on Tuesday, November 26, 1996 at 01:04 Like Martha, I think Lynette Jennings was much better in the early days, I wonder if they ran out of good ideas on a reasonable level and thats the real problem. What is it about Martha? Posted by: ruth anne (IL. zone 5a) (drrj@snd.softfarm.com) on Tuesday, November 26, 1996 at 01:12 Check out 'Interior Motives'. What is it about Martha? Posted by: Kathy PA/Z6 (markathy@epix.net) on Tuesday, November 26, 1996 at 07:14 Fran, I changed that to 40 hours in a day 8 years ago when I opened my own flower shop! Please....I know Martha will get the credit somehow! Kathy What is it about Martha? Posted by: Kim Fisher (ckfisher@redrose.net) on Tuesday, November 26, 1996 at 08:31 Kate, if MS or anyone else sends you any more unsolicited stuff in the mail, DON'T PAY FOR IT!! Unsolicited merchandise is considered a gift, and you cannot be made to pay for anything you didn't order. Contact your local postal authorities if a company starts giving you any bull to the contrary. What is it about Martha? Posted by: judi z./(RI/Z6) (ezimm@ids.net) on Tuesday, November 26, 1996 at 09:48 Ruthanne--is Interior Motives the one with the guy who is "way over the top?" I think he is really playing up that awful stereotype of the swishy decorator, and doing a dis-service to all people in the field--he's going to give himself an aneurysm with that gushing. I asked the int. designer who helps me what he thinks, and he was very offended. My designer, David is gay, but recoiled from this show, saying it was almost as homophobic as true bashing. What is it about Martha? Posted by: ruth anne (IL. zone 5a) (drrj@snd.softfarm.com) on Tuesday, November 26, 1996 at 10:23 Judi - you nailed that one on the head! What is it about Martha? Posted by: Grace (PA/Zone 6) (kfmartin@epix.net) on Tuesday, November 26, 1996 at 13:53 I'm of German/Austrian background and enjoy making stollen at Christmas. I've tried several different recipes. Martha was making it on her show one day, I believe with her mom. Her recipe used ELEVEN cups of flour! Do I have a bowl large enough in my kitchen to hold that mess? It was such a massive undertaking for a regular person with standard size utensils and counter space. Now I have my recipe that I got from Good Housekeeping and have success every year. What is it about Martha? Posted by: Andie Rathbone Mo/Zone 6A (andier@cybergate.org) on Tuesday, November 26, 1996 at 19:54 Like I said before. Martha Stewart is the anti-Christ, sent down to earth to make all normal women (especially those who work full time) feel like worthless slobs. It's not that she doesn't have good idesas sometimes, but she always does things the hard way. She can't just go to Michaels and buy a grapevine wreath like normal people, she has to cut the twigs, soak them, and make the damn thing herself. She also is into really, REALLY expensive stuff. Check out what she charges for her paint. I like to take some of her ideas and recreate them for 1/10th the cost. By the way, have I been under a rock? Who is this Jennings woman? What is it about Martha? Posted by: Janet Menke MD/Z6 (menkesjg@erols.com) on Tuesday, November 26, 1996 at 22:03 Yes do tell, who is this Jennings person? Finally figure out that Englebrecht person is (have one of her nifty cannisters just didn't realize it) and now a new MS wannabee to learn about! What is it about Martha? Posted by: Kim Fisher (ckfisher@redrose.net) on Tuesday, November 26, 1996 at 22:08 Lynnette Jennings has a show on The Discovery Channel, daytime on weekdays. I really can't comment on her. I caught about half of one show once, decided she was too much for me, and reached for the remote. What is it about Martha? Posted by: Kathy PA/Z6 (markathy@epix.net) on Tuesday, November 26, 1996 at 22:48 I told my husband that Martha was the Anti-Christ! I wonder if her birthday is on Feburary 4TH????? The Anti-Christ was to be born on this day! I wish Martha had a web site, I would LOVE to e-mail her. Kathy What is it about Martha? Posted by: Glenda (IN/Z5) (fletch@tctc.com) on Wednesday, November 27, 1996 at 08:30 Poor Martha, I admit I have said it all myself, but we should proably be ashamed of ourselves. We should applaud & be inspired when one of us manages to build an empire. If a man had done it, people would be praising his abilities to delegate not saying don't forget he has a staff. I have her old house book, and she gives full credit to all the artisans who painstakingly renovated her home. And described the process for those of us who can't afford the artisans and would like to believe that we are talented enough to do it ourselves. I wonder if the criticizims (sp?) of her poor treatment of her staff are deserved, or if they would exist if she were male. Sound like a raving feminist don't I. What is it about Martha? Posted by: Bev (Ont6b) (waverley@hookup.net) on Wednesday, November 27, 1996 at 14:02 Glenda, in all seriousness I think that you might have something there about us knocking a woman for being successful. I have tried to think of a man who would be like her, sort of set himself up as the epitome of good taste and as a representative of the western version of masculinity, but I couldn't come up with one so it's hard to know if we would knock him too. I think that what frustrates us so much is the very mixed messages we get, that we should be modern women who don't have to stay at home in the kitchen like June Cleaver but that our families should be well looked after. It all comes back to mom. Martha makes us feel inadequate because she seems to do it all: have a growing, successful business and career and do all of the home warming stuff that looks so fuzzy and cozy and perfect. We can never be like her, nor, I suspect, would we want to be. Hovever, we still feel uneasy and ambivalent about her and what she represents. We criticize her but when you read the postings about all the wonderful dinners, handmade decorations and Christmas gifts that we are capable of handling we're more like her than we realize. Martha just goes WAY over the top. She's a lot like us but out of control. On another note, I think, although I haven't had it confirmed, that Martha-wannabe Lynette Jennings is Canadian. What is it about Martha? Posted by: Andie Rathbone Mo/Zone 6A (andier@cybergate.org) on Wednesday, November 27, 1996 at 18:48 Maybe I should take a day off work and try to catch Lynette, just to check her out. What is it about Martha? Posted by: Becky GA*z7B (aesculus@ix.netcom.com) on Thursday, November 28, 1996 at 21:09 If Ralph Lauren (who's clothes etc. I can not afford) can make the coolest paint I've ever seen for $29/gal. why is Martha's araucana series over $100/gal? And I've heard it can be toxic to pets & kids. What is it about Martha? Posted by: Janet Menke MD/Z6 (menkesjg@erols.com) on Thursday, November 28, 1996 at 22:37 Are you guys serious? Does Queen Martha actually have her own line of PAINT? How have I missed this? Where do they sell it- Saks Fifth Avenue, Tiffany's, and the like? What is it about Martha? Posted by: judi z./(RI/Z6) (ezimm@ids.net) on Friday, November 29, 1996 at 11:58 And get ready for this one--CNBC has announced that Martha is going public!! We can all own a little bit of Martha! I'd love to go to the shareholders meetings--will we have to decorate the room? Serve whimsical little tidbits? Instead of a printed annual report, will it be festively stencilled, decoupaged and adorned with ribbon? What is it about Martha? Posted by: donna PA 5 (pwaldron@sgi.net) on Friday, November 29, 1996 at 15:40 I'm an old "fan" or enemy of Lynnette Jennings--because she is my style of sit-com. We used to get her show on satelite when I lived in Japan and we were all so hungry for any English television that the Americans watched her religiously. My favorite Lynnette tip--she reassuringly told us in one episode that beige and brown go together! (sorry, I think I may have mentioned this before somewhere). She also made a vase one day from houseplant leaves and an empty peanut butter jar that sent us rolling in laughter. And just think--her show has been expanded to 1 hour! What is it about Martha? Posted by: Janet OH/Z6 (jkp@one.net) on Friday, November 29, 1996 at 15:44 MS is genuinely insincere! Her smile rarely reaches her eye's. What is it about Martha? Posted by: Becky GA*z7B (aesculus@ix.netcom.com) on Friday, November 29, 1996 at 17:01 Glenda - I met someone in NYC that worked on the food section of MSLiving and loved her job, so rumors of employee abuse are probably just that. Perhaps confused with Leona Helmsley. Has anyone seen the cartoon Sylvia? She has one she does called "The Woman Does Everything More Beautifully Than You" that has to be based on Martha.

Buy the bush in bloom. Even if it is only one flower head, the bush will keep producing each year after, when left alone. I purchased a lilac with a tag, waited YEARS for it to bloom, only to find it was mistagged. Not a red wine color, but plain lilac old-fashioned type. I was SO ANGRY for wasting all that time waiting for flowers. Never again will I purchase a lilac that is not flowering. This makes sure plant is old enough to bloom, but is also the correct color I want. I got a Sensation, the white edged purple, blooming on a one foot high twig. The flower bent the twig half over each season, but bloomed faithfully each spring after. My Beauty of Moscow seems very nice. Blooms well, on the 4ft sticks. Has a good smell, with nice flowers. It has grown about a foot since purchase 2 years ago. I like the multi-stem look, haven't tried a tree form. I did braid some lilac stems, so they will grow together over time. This is an old-fashioned practice for interesting textured, heavy stems. It does look tree-like when they age, with a full crown. I will have to see how they do over time. I had seen old braided ones, wanted to give it a try. Braided some Rose of Sharon stems too. Braiding might be an idea for your tree-look lilac!! Will take a while to see good results.

Larger caliper are generally slower to establish, so there is in most cases zero cause to purchase a larger caliper. Many studies out there show that after time, the smaller caliper trees catch up to the larger ones. Whether your daughter can and will want to sit under the tree before leaving home is another question, but after 10 years I would expect 3-5 m of vertical growth if the tree is happy, well cared for, decent location, all that. Dan