If you need the softener - get the Miele. KA is playing catchup in this arena.

Salt recharges a matrix that softens the water.

KUDE60 is the only KA with a softener.

Thanks for your help. Antss, if I get the Miele, do I have to use their tablets? What do you mean by "salt recharges a matrix that softens the water"? Does it mean I have to add salt to the KA? If so, what kind of salt would I use?

Miele Tabs are not necessary, though some like them. I use Cascade Complete with my Mieles.

You need salt to recharge any water softener , in a DW from Miele, KA, or Bosch, or a whole house affair from Culligan.

Re: the salt type. Miele and Somat sell the type of salt that is required. It's basically a certain sized grain of rock salt without impurities and anti- caking agents in it. The type will be listed in the owners manual of any brand you choose.

You'll also need to use rinse aid with a euro dishwasher too. You fill a reservoir a few times a year and the DW does the rest.

thank you antss, much appreciated!

We've been avoiding KA because it is said to be deeper, and therefore will not have a flush front look. Is that true, or a mistake?

According to post here (GW) it's true for a standard 24" depth cabinet, that the KA will stick out half inch to an inch.

Some allow for that, and build deeper cabinets some have been able to remove some drywall from the back of the cabinet, whilst Still others Just, "Let it All Hang out"! (LOL)

We bought the Miele Optima 5 years ago, because at the time it was the only DW with the top cutlery tray.
Our cabinets are deeper than the std 24" so could have bought either. The Miele has been quiet, Cleans well, Trouble free for 5 years now.

We do have to wipe of plastics, now and then, and it's still feels strange, (even after 5 years) to reach in and grab luke warm dishes, even right after it finishes, but I'm sure I like my electric bill bettter than when I had the old KA with heated dry.

Gary

FWIW I've had numerous problems with my Kitchen Aid KUDI series.
- 1 failed water inlet valve
- 2 blown hardwired fuses due to design flaw (heat/steam builup in electronics area)
- black paint peeled off the control panel above the steam vent
- rinse aid dispenser leak
- and most recently the cleaning performance has degraded with specks of food left all over the glassware.

All this in a dishwasher that's just 6 years old and has been run just once a day.

I don't know if KA has resolved these issues in their latest models but I know I'll never buy another dishwasher made by Kitchen Aid (or more broadly, any brand in the Whirlpool family).

The KA KUDE60 with water softener is NOT listed on the KA website. Can anyone venture to guess why?

"Can anyone venture to guess why?"

It's either very new and not available yet or discontinued and no longer available.

i posted this in another thread too:

Available 1st Quarter 2011

Architect� Series II
KUDE60SX � 43 dBA**
Performance
� EQ Wash System
� Targeted Wash Zones
� Hard Water Softener
� 6 Cycles (ProWash�, Heavy Duty, Normal,
One Hour Wash, Light/China, Rinse Only)
� 7 Options (ProScrub,� Sani-Rinse, Hi-Temp Scrub,
ProDry,� Top Rack Wash, 4 Hour Delay, Control Lock)
� Dedicated Drying System with ProDry� Option
� Optimum Wash Sensor
� AquaSense� Fill System
� Whisper Quiet� 43 Sound Insulation System
Craftsmanship & Design
� Fully Integrated with Display Console
� Architect� Series II Handle
� Tall Tub with Stainless Steel Interior
� 16 Place Setting Capacity
� Light-Touch Controls with Audio Feedback
� LED Status Display
� Culinary Tool Rack
� Flood Protection Technology
� ENERGY STAR� Qualified
� CEE Tier 2 Qualified
Upper and Lower Racks
� DuraKote� Nylon-Coated Racks
� Cushion-Tip� Tines
Upper Rack
� Adjustable with SatinGlide� Max System
and Premium Adjusters
� Robust Handle with Stainless Steel Insert
� 2 Fold-Down Rows with Two-Position Tines
� 6 Sure-Hold� Light Items Clips
� 2 Fold-Down Plastic Cup Shelves
with Integrated Stemware Holders
Lower Rack
� 2 Fold-Down Rows with Two- and Three-Position Tines
� Culinary Caddy� Utensil Basket
� Exclusive Silverware Basket Design with Four Sliding Covers
Color
� Stainless Steel (SS)

As I've posted many times in the past, I avoid KitchenAid products completely. Our fist dishwasher was an ancient, wonderful KA when we bought our first home. It was still going perfectly when we sold that house in the 1980s. Since then I have had two nearly useless KA dishwashers and many lousy KA small appliances. My Hobart KA mixer from the 80s works perfectly, however. I've gotten rid of so many more recent and useless KA appliances that I just steer clear of the company now. It has evolved into an untrustworthy brand.

I had got ridden of a KA 6 year old dw, it left spots on all my dishes, and yes I used a rinsing agent.

We replaced the KA with a way more quiet Optima Miele, that has been great. We do have to wipe the plastics to remove some dampness though most of the time.

Previous to the KA dw, we had a Kenmore for 13 years that we left with the previous home, nad it worked pretty good.