Thank you all so much for the input, appreciate it. I think I am more interested in knowing the specifics of the fruit traits. I want to use as a lemon/lime/Seville sour orange substitute for the juice for salad dressings, drinks, seafood seasoning. I can definitely wrap it up in burlap and such even xmas lights for the first couple seasons or bring it indoors like the rest of my citrus the first couple winters. Eventually though I want to plant it in warm microclimate spot I have for it in zone7a. I assume all these have fragrant blossoms typical of citrus which is also a requirement? I did get to speak with Mckenzie farms forgot to ask if these all have fragrant blossoms or if any stand out for blossom fragrance. I think Ichang may have the largest and most fragrant blossoms. But the others should have fragrant blossoms too? So basically the most important thing to me to is: juice quantity, juice quality (no offtastes/bitterness/astringency or extremely little), and blossom fragrance. Here are my notes based on sleuthing: Yuzu- Only real problem is here is juice content is so small- sounds like a teaspoon per fruit due to both small fruit (think 4,5 cm diameter tangerines as standard size) and also very thick peel, lots of seed, and occasionally dry. I am confident the QUALITY of the sour juice is good--as it is a classic culinary juice. Aromatic, zesty juice. The rind is awesome on these, but I have no interest in rind. It sounds like per fruit it's almost a 1:6 ratio Yuzu juice to lime. Do I really want to be juicing 6 fruit every time I can just a lime or one of the below 2? Maybe if the juice is that awesome--which it could be. Shangjuan/Ichang lemon- Large fruit with 1/2 cup sour juice! Very seedy, thick peel, but still gives 1/2 cup sour juice which is a lot. The quality is suspect--some say it can used as lemon, some say it is way too sour and caustic like straight up vinegar with no citrusy flavor/zest/aroma. So maybe juice quantity over quality on this one. Also I think I read it doesn't keep well? Thomasville Citrangequat- seems like the best option and a compromise. A 4cm x6cm fruit rough standard size (close to size as Yuzu, but oblong shape) but is juicy, not insanely thick skin, not insanely seedy. Not sure how much juice it offers per fruit--but is described as juicy and I'm sure it is more juice at least than the Yuzu. The quality sounds good too and may be like the Seville sour orange with some orangey flavor in the sour juice. My main concern with this one is if it's only juicy when RIPE--to my knowledge citrus gets juicier as it gets ripe. Most people suggest using underripe Thomasville as lemon substitute--are these relativey DRY sour wedges though? The descriptions of juicy are surely describing the truly ripe fruit which I will not count on getting in zone 7a nor do I desire. I want something that is juicy when it is sour (like a lemon/lime/Seville sour orange), not dry when it is sour because the sourness is due to underripeness (like an underripe standard sweet orange--those are a bit dry.). So overall, I think thomasville wins for me, but a taste test would help since I'm nitpicking on the quality traits--I may try to taste test some in November. Also thomasville sounds like it's a half notch hardier than Ichang. If anyone else has anymore info or thoughts that would be great. Remaining questions- Blossom fragrances? How much juice can you get from a sour underripe thomasville?

Depends on whether you mean tangerines or clementines. To me, tangerines are really sweet and have a fantastic flavor. I love tangerine juice over orange juice any day. Clementines are very good too but not as strong or as good of a taste then tangerines. Though one of the varieties on clementines I get is pretty close to a tangerine, but still not as sweet. Minneola's, or honey belle's, are extremely juicy and have a wonderful lighter flavor with a sweet tang to it, like a tangerine crossed with an orange even though its not, lol. Thats what they taste like to me.

I have four trees in the mandarin family: Robinson and Dancy tangerines and Satsuma and Murcott mandarins. I put them in four years ago and only the Robinson and Dancy have borne heavily so far (I picked all the buds off the first two seasons). I got the four varieties specifically because the Satsuma was supposed to be the earliest of the possible choices to fruit (Sep-Nov), The Robinson is supposed to be (Oct-Dec), the Dancy (Nov-Jan), and the Murcott (Jan-Mar). The Robinson and Dancy are right on schedule. What fruit the Satsuma has had so far (about a dozen each in two years) was in the same timeframe as the Robinson, but I've read that young trees often don't have their normal seasons. Also I had to cut it back heavily at the end of 2007 because it had a really sprawling growth pattern and the long limbs were being pulled to the ground by the fruit. The 2008 crop was likely affected by that (but it *was* much better supported). The Murcott's growth is lagging way behind the rest, largely because of its location (too much shade), and has only set about five fruit over the past two years. Of the taste, the few I've gotten from the Murcott were absolutely wonderful -- surpassing all three others. The Dancy is the easiest to peel, has fewer seeds than the Robinson, and a better taste. The Satsuma peels easier than the Robinson and less easy than the Dancy. It's sweeter than either, but I think I prefer the taste of the Dancy over it. Of them all, I'd have to say that the Dancy and the Murcott are my favorites. In the end, though, my real goal was to have fresh tangerines/mandarins available over a six month period. Mind you, my wife (the *real* tangerine fanatic in the family) tried Clementines (Nov-Jan)for the first time this past season and has requested I add one. I've also long considered adding a Ponkan (Jan-Mar) as I've heard they are excellent eating. I'll probably do it as soon as I figure out where the heck to shoehorn in two more trees...

I agree, LindaC, I just made marmalade with some tangerines that lacksboys3 sent me and it was wonderful. So good, in fact, that I only have one jar left, I need to make some more! In the meantime, how about some granita? It takes a lot of tangerine juice, I've made it with orange juice and it was good: Tangerine Granita Ingredients 1/2 cup sugar 1/2 cup water 1/4 cup light corn syrup 4 cups fresh tangerine juice 2 tablespoons grated tangerine rind 1/4 cup orange juice concentrate 2 tablespoons lemon juice 1/8 teaspoon salt 1. In a heavy saucepan, combine sugar, water and corn syrup. Bring to a boil; remove from heat immediately. Add tangerine juice, orange juice concentrate, lemon juice and salt. Stir well. Pour into an 8-cup plastic container. 2. Freeze 1 hour; remove from freezer and stir or scrape with a fork to create ice crystals; repeat 3 times. Serves 8. I've saved this recipe for a while now, meaning to try it, but tangerines aren't so cheap or plentiful here, usually, so it's still in the "to try" file: Tangerine Merinque Pie 1 9 inch classic pie crust, baked FILLING 1/2 cup sugar, divided 1/3 cup cornstarch 1 1/2 cups fresh tangerine juice 1/2 cup water 2 large eggs 1 1/2 teaspoons grated tangerine zest 1/2 teaspoon vanilla extract MERINGUE 1/4 cup sugar 2 tablespoons strained confectioners' sugar 3 large egg whites 1/4 teaspoon cream of tartar FILLING: In a medium-size saucepan, combine 1/4 cup sugar with the cornstarch. Gradually add the tangerine juice and water, whisking until smooth. Cook over medium heat, stirring constantly until the mixture comes to a boil. Reduce the heat to low and cook for 1 minute longer, stirring occasionally. In a medium-size bowl, lightly beat the eggs with a whisk. Gradually whisk in the remaining 1/4 cup sugar. Stir a small amount of the filling into the egg mixture to temper them. Add the yolk mixture to the saucepan, blending the mixtures together. Slowly cook the filling until it is thick, about 1 minute longer. Whisk briefly to smooth the filling, but DO NOT OVERMIX. Remove the saucepan from the heat and stir in the tangerine zest and vanilla extract. Pour the filling into the baked pie shell. MERINGUE: Preheat the oven to 350 degrees. Position the oven rack to the lower third of the oven. In a small bowl, combine the sugars. Set aside. In the large bowl of an electric mixer fitted with beaters or whip attachment, beat the egg whites on medium speed until frothy. Add the cream of tartar and increase the mixer speed to medium-high. Beat until the egg whites form firm peaks, but are not dry. Whip in the sugar mixture, 1 tablespoon at a time, taking about 1 minute. Beat the whites until thick and glossy, about 30 seconds longer. With a tablespoon, drop mounds of meringue in a ring around the edge of the filling, then fill in the center. With the back of a tablespoon, spread the meringue until it COMPLETELY covers the filling. Swirl the meringue with the back of the tablespoon to form peaks. To prevent weeping, be sure the meringue is sealed to the very edge of the pie, and that all the filling is covered. Bake the pie for 15 minutes or until lightly browned. Cool the pie away from drafts. Oh, and I saw Paula Deen make a tangerine cake once, I'll bet that recipe is on the web somewhere. I did make some tangerine muffins, but I was disappointed so I won't post that recipe. I'll bet lemon shortbread would be good with tangerine instead too. Annie