Pillog does keep "abreast" of things here, and She is a lotta help to everyone, but-----why not get it straight from the "Horse's mouth" (No offense Rhome) (LOL).

Rhome is one of the ladies that had the GE ovens and can tell you "First Hand" about her experience with same!

Gary

Oh, thanks! I don't know too many of the members yet : )
Rhome, you're welcome to chime in along with anyone else!

Did You find Rhome's Exotic Pizza, the "2 tone Special" that She did in her GE oven?

I Love my Elux, but I won't tell since you didn't ask me.

Gary

Yes, I DID see that! I can tell you love your Elux! I don't know why the guy at a reputable appliance store near me said he doesn't like them. He said GE was much better... or a KA oven.

Perhaps he is getting an incentive for selling GE. Happened at our local Great Indoors when we were shopping appliances for our city condo. He flat out said he gets a better spiff for GE over other products. Food for thought.

M

My appliance person here also told me not to purchase Elux products. She steered me to the KA. What....and have an oven that shuts down when you clean it? No thanks. Anyway, based on the massive knowledge here from Rhome and from multiple people who have actually used and highly recommend the ovens, I was planning on the Elux non-Icons. Then I scored a deal on Wolf L ovens. Based on how Rhome describes the engineering of the Monograms, I know I'd steer clear of those.

Did you read any thread where she mentions the oven engineering expert (i think it was a Wolf employee?) who told her that the Elux ovens would be the best choice in the "budget" category if the Wolfs were too expensive? Very interesting.

I've learned not to trust appliance store "experts" too much. They are, after all, sales people. Some are extremely knowledgeable. We are lucky enough to have some of them here who offer great advice. Unfortunately, many really don't know what they are talking about.

Hi! It's three L's, but who's counting. :)

I think your questions have been well answered. Cj47 bakes a lot in Electrolux, so look for her posts on that. You'll also see in your searches that Rhome410 liked the baking quality of her Fisher and Paykel ovens. It seems that the problem she was having is more specific to her than to the brand. What I'm good at is aggregating data: There have been a lot of problems of various kinds reported with GE and Monogram ovens. Two bakers have suffered with very poor results without resolution. In your searches, I'm sure you've found the people who have them and are very satisfied, but they're not for the demanding.

People don't generally report getting the Thermador wall ovens. More go Bosch for the big cavity and lower price, or Gaggenau for the very best (all three are made by BSH, kind of like the GM of German appliances). A few have talked about the Thermador ranges, but I don't remember anything specific about the ovens. In general, I'd guess they'd be okay to good. Most are. Okay. I just read through the manual. AAAACK!! It's one of those Starship Enterprise control panels where you have to program in everything. It does have the Easy Cook, which sounds like the Miele MasterChef, where the oven figures out how to cook your food for you. There's also a setting for heating frozen convenience foods without preheating in the same amount of time as if you had a hot oven, which confirms my belief that this oven was designed for people who are scared of ovens and don't know how to cook. It makes as though the oven is smarter than you are and will make everything okay. Most importantly for bakers, however, is that it doesn't have a bottom heat only option. There are some things that one wants bottom heat only, no convection for. All the Thermador offers is top and bottom and/or convection.

I don't know much about baking in the KA other than that reputation for coughing up its guts during self-clean. We've had members who were very happy with them as general ovens, but I don't remember any in depth reviews or any from avid bakers.

I hope Gary comes back and tells you about his Electrolux speed oven (or you could search Dodge59). He loves it! Quite a few folks have bought it recently and no one has had anything bad to say about it.

I have an Advantium, and I like it for most purposes, but haven't been as impressed by the speed cook. Yes, it can cook a large sweet potato in under 10 minutes, but I'm not sure it's worth it for what is lost in the process like the kind of caramelization that comes from baking low and slow. It's fine. Just not as yummy as could be. Both the microwave mode and convection oven mode are terrific. So far, I've found that it makes cheese toast better on speed oven setting than any other, which makes sense because cheese is better with microwave and toast is better with radiant, so the cheese is melty and the crust is toasty.

Other speed ovens are supposed to be not quite as good as microwaves as the Advantium, but maybe they're better at the speed cooking. The Advantium does it fast, don't get me wrong. I'm just not that impressed with the results.

There was a model year in which Elux ovens had bad electronic boards. That could also be what turned sales people against them? But from what I read, and from one of the sales guys I spoke to, Elux was very responsive in replacing the boards, and the next year's ovens had new ones. I was leery about trusting the new ones at the time I ended up with my Wolf, but I haven't heard any complaints since then, so they must've actually fixed the problem.

As Plllog said, not only was baking in the Monogram quite disappointing, but so were the informative responses, or lack thereof, from GE engineering. And their treatment of one owner to the next was inconsistent, as Cotehele had the same problems and was communicating with the same GE person at the same time, and was told her oven was working fine and to quit bothering them about it. (My summary of their words to her, not an exact quote!) My repair tech says GE is one he'd never buy...But unfortunately, I hadn't asked him soon enough!

The Profiles, I believe, are the same oven technology with different doors and badges.

When I looked at Thermador, it was one of the most expensive ovens I saw. Although quite cool looking, I couldn't see or discover in my research any reason to spend that kind of money on it. It was more expensive than the Miele, which I considered out of my league, pricewise, and didn't offer nearly the same type of technology/features.

Best wishes. Appliance buying decisions are tough! You spend thousands of dollars and get 'stuck' with something you usually don't get to try first.

Thank you! This is all very informative. I notice that Electrolux and Electrolux Icon have 2 different websites. When we discuss Electrolux above are we referring to the Icon line?

From what I understand (you'll find the answer in your searches), the ovens in both lines are pretty equivalent in quality. There are a few different features and appear differences, but the difference that people talk about is that the ICON is prettier but the cavity is smaller.

Generally, where there's a fancy version of a moderate line (Electrolux and Elux ICON, KA and KA architect, etc.), the differences are primarily cosmetic, with a few added electronics features. It's easier to add a chip than to design an oven. :)

Thanks again plllog-
I'll have to research the gas cooktops now. Should I match brands with the oven and cooktop?
No rebates going on for Icon products which stinks b/c the $2000 Monogram rebate is tempting. I don't like the reviews I'm coming across though : (
Any recommendations for cooktops would be great.

Nope , most of us do not match brands here.
We find the best appliance for the job.
In my case Elux Icon Oven and Speed oven and Induction cooktop, but a Miele Optima DW and a Jenn-air Fridge.

Not really heard much about Elux gas products, I would look more at Blue Star or Capital, if you are looking for Hot Hot Hot!

Gary

I do like the look of the Icon better, but could find no feature or cooking mode difference from Elux to Icon. Plus, as Plllog said, the sizes seem to be different, which is odd. The Icon is a little smaller inside and deeper overall, if I remember right. That could have changed by now. It COULD indicate better insulation in the Icon, but I don't know how to find that out.

And, yes, as Gary said, I would encourage you to find the best appliance for each purpose rather than trying to match brands. If your 2 favorites happen to match, great, but if not, it's no big deal.

Don't get me started on my GE microwave-convection oven...

You know that tempting Monogram rebate you mentioned? Think about why they have to bribe you to get you to buy their wares. Technically, what a rebate is, is the manufacturer reducing the price to increase sales of a product they can't move enough of at its regular price. It's a lot easier for all involved to make the price reduction a rebate rather than a straight reduction. Most especially for dealers who, in a rebate scheme, get their full price for their stock (which they may have already bought at a higher price than they'd pay for a lower price point), but the customer still gets to pay the lower price.

They never have rebates on Bentleys.

For gas cooktops you have to first decide if you want a home style drop in cooktop, or a rangetop, possibly with a higher power output. Then you have to decide whether a good simmer is important to you, and whether you want a blastorama high BTU ability on all burners, etc. I think European cooktops with star shaped grates and tops flush to the counter are ridiculous. You can get continuous grates at any price point and not have to worry about pushing your pot off if you stir too vigorously. Even the old American range style round grates didn't stick up so much off the surface that that would happen. Some people (Euros) care more about good looks than sense!

Most standard residential cooktops have sealed burners with caps. These direct the flames to the edges of the pot. They cook fine, but you don't have the kind of fine control that old fashioned open burners have. They send flames both in and out, and spread the heating across the whole bottom of the pot. With sealed burners, you have to stir more. :) Some people say sealed are easier to clean, but that's something of a cannard. There's more to disassemble with open burners, and they're rarely beautiful, but the time you save with closed on taking things apart and fussing with three dimensional bits is often spent on sealed wiping out crumbs and polishing the pan areas.

People who love their pro-style rangetops will tell you that nothing else will work, that you can't cook right on sealed, can't sear, can't wok, etc. It's not true. But, while you do have to deal with the heat that all that heat puts out, it is easier and faster using a high powered open burner one.

We get very little feedback about standard closed burner residential gas cooktops. I think most of the kind of people who care enough that they come here end up choosing induction or a pro-style rangetop. If you aren't familiar with induction, do a search here. You get as much control as with gas, and much less heat, plus super simple cleaning (including that you can put down newspaper or a silicone mat under your pot to catch spatter). The two pro-style rangetops that get the most enthusiasm are BlueStar and Capital, as Gary mentioned, though there are others which also have their fans.

Wow- great info!

I wanted to do a 36" drop in cooktop. I am not familiar with the open burners so I've been reading about them today. I have been on the BlueStar site today as well. I can't seem to find any prices and think these will be more $ than what I planned on. Any idea what the 36" drop in goes for? (all the sites say to call for a price and I didn't get a chance yet.)

I was just looking at the Thermador, GE, Electrolux gas cooktops until now.

I love the induction idea and have read about it from time to time but I have a good amount of cookware and am not sure I want to start over? Griddles, etc.
Is there a good set people go with or simply piece by piece? I really AM interested in this route even though my DH didn't like having to buy all new cookware... I'd still do it though : )

If you have a 20-piece suite of Mauviel, I can understand why not to get new cookware. If you just need to replace a few pots, it shouldn't deter you. There are several threads in which people talk about basic sets that they like for starting with induction. They don't have to be really expensive, just made out of iron/steel.

As to the standard gas cooktops, there isn't much to go wrong. Check out the burner arrangement, the grates, the features like simmer or a power burner, the looks. When you have it down to a few, post a thread about them, and you should get some responses.

plllog- I was just thinking the same thing! My cookware is is 10-15 years old and certainly nothing fancy I can't replace : ) I'll check the prices of the induction and some reviews. I think dodge has the Electrolux?

Thanks so much!
Fishies

I Do have the Elux, but I bought it because It had a stainless steel divider between its controls and the rest of the cooktop. I had a terrible experience with a non induction cooktop where the controls were right in the cooktop area and not separated, and being a "Conventional", Not Induction Cooktop, stuff burned on even in the area of the controls and totaled that cooktop in less than 2 years--and in fact one night I just happened to come down to get some ice cream instead of going to bed. That Cooktop had not only unlocked itself but it turned the biggest burner on full high and not that far away was a dish towel, scared the @~*# outta me.

So I Over reacted when I was looking for an Induction cooktop. The surface of an induction cooktop does not get hot enough to burn anything on, Nor can it ulock itself and turn itself on----in fact you can't turn them on unless you have a "Proper pan/pot" in place.

Anyway, a long winded way of saying, Most any induction cooktop will do the job for you. I like my Elux, but it does not have "Real Timers"--(They actually shut off the burners when they time out) not a biggie to us as wife never used them on that other cooktop we had that did have "Real Timers"

So Get what you like, see what features are important to you, Lotta good info here in GW about that!

We so love our induction, and I have a Huge Ranging Inferno type gas burner cooktop (DCS) out on the patio, so I can understand ones desire for one or the other or both.!!

Good luck on forthcoming decisions!!!

Gary

OK, I really would like to do induction now and have begun my research! : )

I am using vermont danby marble for a countertop which is white with some caramel and darker in it. I'm wondering if the Thermador or GE with silver finishes may work. I thought maybe if the GE was slightly gold in might work better than black... DO ANY OF YOU HAVE OTHER PICS OF THESE TWO COOKTOPS?

Also, I see there is a frame around the GE. I think some of the induction tops are totally flat (Miele?) where things could run off the side?

(The first photo on the left is actually Corian)

The Miele does not have a flat side edge. There is a thin, unobtrusive 'lip' around the cooktop that will contain spills. It's sealed, so no crud ever gets stuck there. It is extremely easy to clean! I chose it because I liked the burner configuration and the programmable features. I use the turn off timers frequently--I make a lot of rice and do a moderate amount of pressure cooking, and I find that feature very handy. The low settings are REALLY low--I can melt chocolate right in the pan and hold it there without it seizing up. It has 12 power levels, with the capability to program half steps if I want to. I was fully prepared to do that, but have not needed them. The only downside is the price, and you'll not find any rebates or sales on the Miele. For some that's not an issue, but I saved in other areas so that I could afford my first choice in cooktops. I've been very happy with it.

I also have the Electrolux non-Icon ovens, and have been very happy with those as well. Even temps, even baking, love the roll out racks.

Cj

Cj mentioned the burner configuration, which I was going to encourage you to check out before deciding on an induction cooktop. Some have only one large burner. Some (Elux, I think...or the Kenmore version, maybe) have the 2 largest burners right next to each other, so if you have large pots on both, they may crowd each other, or at least have handle issues. See what one will likely work best for the way you cook.

I SO wanted induction while we were planning and building, but realized just before making a huge mistake that one thing I really needed was more than 2 large burners, and that wasn't available with induction. If the 36" Miele had been out in time, I might have decided it would be a workable compromise. Instead, I got an 8 burner gas rangetop... The power and might of the gas took a little getting used to for someone who'd never cooked on gas in 40 years of cooking... but I love it now. Just don't ask about cleaning it. That still makes me miss the induction. ;-)

Anyway, don't forget to think through things like pan size and where you want the burners you'll use and tend most.. like I almost did.

One of the things you way want to consider when selecting your induction cook-top is how the controls function. I really liked how the Electrolux performed but I found the controls to be a bit sluggish when demonstrating it to clients. That was a first gen Icon if I recall correctly... maybe Gary could comment on this with whatever series he ended up with. As a Miele fan I was disappointed to find that their induction cook-top controls also felt a bit sluggish and unresponsive at times... again on a first generation product. I remember when Miele's first Master Chef Series Ovens came out around 2004 the controls were also a bit sluggish and unresponsive when demonstrating [very aggravating] . If you check out the current generation Miele ovens it's a completely different story, �the controls are now spectacularly responsive IMO. Any how, try and seek out places near you that can demonstrate the controls live before you purchase. I thought the Profile/Monogram controls were OK but not spectacular. I did like Bosch's steel touch controls on their 800 Series and more recently I was able to rig up a brand new Jenn-Air/KitchenAid induction to 120V in order to try out its controls and was pretty impressed. I hope this simplifies things for you instead of complicating.

Here is a link that might be useful: Jenn-Air Induction Controls

I have the 30" Elux Icon Induction cooktop. We've had no problems with the controls, but Electrolux has since come out with newer models since ours, with completely new controls, actually the new controls are kinda slick allowing you to go directly to a temp setting, rather than tap tap tap, or leaving finger on the control when making "Big Changes" in temp.

First we need to know if "2lf's" wants a 30 or a 36 inch induction cooktop.

Several reasons for this.
Some, (Electrolux for example), 30" cooktop have more room for big pans/pots, (look at pictures of the cooktops you will typically see more room for larger pans on the 30 inch albeit less pots/pans at the same time).

Some of the newer induction cooktop are not using the really large hob that my Electrolux has and most/maybe all
induction cooktop manufacturers recommend not using a pot/pan that is more than half an inch bigger than the outside circle on a hob--so take your largest pan/pot and measure it, also check manufactures recommendation on pot/pan size.

The new Elux 36" Induction (Signature Design) unit has what they call a 7-11 dual element allowing small or large pots/pans on the same hob---I will leave a link to it at the bottom of this post.

Anyway , lets determine the size you want, the looks an features you want, then we will have the right "Ammo" to assist you in your purchase!

We would also recommend that you download Operators Manuals for the "Serious Contenders" or the "Finalists" in your hunt for the "Right Induction Cooktop"---it's the next best thing to having an actual one in your kitchen!

Gary

Here is a link that might be useful: New Electrolux Signature Induction Cooktop

Hi! I'm looking for a 36". Presently I am comparing the Electrolux Icon, Thermador CIT365GM, GE ZHU36RSRSS, Miele KM5773, Bosch NIT5665UC
(ON PAPER!)

I would like the Timers that turn off but am willing to let that go if necessary. I don't think I like the edge on the Thermador which I think the Icon has as well. I see stuff getting caught in there and the model I saw was scratched up, etc... on the stainless edge.

Any other models I should look at let me know : )

The Stainless frame does tend to get a bit of a patina after using it for a while. The Thermador with the mirrored finish in our showroom does not have a stainless frame but the black and stainless version does.

Hilferty- Have you seen the mirrored GE MOnogram as well? I wondered how they differ. I think one is more gold in person?

Just noticed this thread.

My wife spent 3-4 hours a day, for 4 straight days baking Christmas gifts this year in our Monogram wall oven. Mostly breads, and biscotti. She had great results, and really seemed to enjoy using the oven in her first major baking project with it.

Regarding the $2,000 Monogram rebate, I assumed its purpose is to encourage consumers to purchase multiple Monogram appliances when outfitting a kitchen, since it doesn't apply to single items. I think you pay full price for individual appliances.

BTW, I recently received $100 rebate for Rancho shocks, and I'm waiting for a $160 rebate on a set of Goodyear tires. All these could be considered premium brands, and I think the rebates are to try and make them seem more competitive, and many people don't collect the rebate in the end.

I will be going to Pacific Sales today, the DW in one of my rentals had gone "Kaput". While there, I will take a look at the Models you mentioned, 2 little fishies, and anything else that looks interesting, as far as induction cooktops go.

I will take my digital camera, and if they have both the
GE and the Thermador, I will take pictures, so you can compare
the colors.

I have found a post or 2 that did not like the controls on the Thermadors, but that could have to do with
"How lively your finger is"? As you saw posted by hilferty77, He found the controls sluggish on the Elux, course to me, they are plenty fast. but you saw the video
so draw your own conclusions---just an example as some may find the Thermador Controls "Perfectly Acceptable"
At My age, (cause I'm so slow) everything seems fast, Especially Time (LOL).

Anyway, I'll get back to you here, after my Pacific Sales visit!

Gary

Awesome, dodge! Thanks!
Hey I have 3 or 4 new cuisinart pots I never used and hoped I'd be able to. They are 18/10 stainless steel, but a magnet doesn't stick. Do you know why?

One of the layers of stainless has to be replaced with a layer of "ferrous" metal. So, not all Stainless Cookware is created equal! In fact, I've noticed that if the pan has very little ferrous metal it tends to be noisier than pans that have significantly more ferrous metal. Cast Iron makes almost no noise as do many enamel-on-steel pots and pans [like Chantal cookware]. Stainless cookware, even when it's designed to work with induction like my Fissler and All-Clad, tends to have a louder "hum" when cooking at higher power levels with induction.

FYI I thought the Monogram was significantly more "gold" than "silver" like the Thermador.

@ Gary: I think you have a later model induction C-Top than the one I cooked on. I think the very first generation Icon induction I used was not as nice as the one in your home video.

hilferty- What are the pros/cons of stainless vs hard anodized?

I haven't played with hard anodized on an induction top... I'm really keen on trying though. I've heard Calphalon has a contemporary non-stick product that works with induction. Amazon recently had a sweet deal on an "Anolon" induction compatible set that I was contemplating as well.

Here is a link that might be useful: Anolon Nouvelle Copper Hard Anodized Nonstick

Hard-anodized is aluminum (Calphalon). It won't work with induction unless it has a plate of steel welded to the bottom (Circulon).

I have a hard anodized set now (that won't work with induction) It's all non stick. Is it always? I found the outside didn't wear that great. Is stainless easier? (probably not) I ruined one pot in the dishwasher, but I read that the Circulon Infinite Hard Anodized Nonstick 10-Piece Induction Cookware Set is dishwasher safe. It was on sale at Amazon but isn't available now.

Here's your picture of the Thermador 36 inch with mirror finish. It is more silver than you see in most pictures, The gold tone is definitely Lacking. $3600 at Pacific Sales.

You can buy 2 of the new 36" Elux for that ($1800 for the black trim or $1900 for the SS trim)

I was hoping they had the new model Elux there, but they didn't, only a brochure, I would try to see one before you make a final decision just go to Elux's site to get the number of their newest model.

Trimless, you will probably hafe to go with the Miele, which also has real timers, which even the new Elux , does not!

Anyway Here's the Pic of the Thermador, (Sorry they did not have a GE There.

Thanks, dodge! I don't know why but I'm in NJ and the appliance stores are only showing like one cooktop in each store! Do Lowes and Home Depot show them? I'll have to look around more.

It is definitely silvery. It's $3000 at the few stores I check into. I'll have to see the Monogram. If I don't like it I'll probably try for the Miele, Bosch, or Electrolux.

I haven't been to Home Depot, but I did go to the Sears Outlet store. They had a great price on a Kitcheaid DW, white,
(Renter wants white)and it had a stainless steel interior.

My handiman still wants to look at the old one before I replace it as He said He put all new parts in it.

Good luck on your hunt, BE SURE if you check out the newest Elux Model that it is the one with the controls in the cooktop area, Not the one with all the controls grouped at the front, like mine, To Me, It looked kinda slick with the new controls, but so far I can't find any good pictures of it, not even in the brochure Pacific Sales had.

Gary

Also look at the installation particulars. If I remember right, the Monogram, like the other GE's, wants a big empty space underneath. The European ones usually just want a channel behind the drawers, or they vent out the surface.

Yes! I will check on that plllog! Good idea!

So according to the GE Manual, is this saying there needs to be 12" free under the cooktop ? I don't know too much about all this but what is the usual? I think in another thread by "angry someone" (or some name like that) he/she was complaining that the Bosch needed more than what their manual said so it came to 5.75".

Here is a link that might be useful: GE Manual