Hi Liz,

Your last frost date is similar to what they tell us is ours here in Tucson, AZ. My tomatoes are always in the ground before that. Although I do not wintersow (I start seeds indoors with fluorescent lighting), if you can plant out by March 1 (or even a week earlier) and if you grow early season or some of the mid season varieties, you should be able to enjoy the fruits of your work before the 92+ degree days of summer stop everything. Good luck on your wintersow project!

Should I wintersow or start indoors for TX. heat?

There are advantages and disadvantages to both approaches so I would suggest you try both and see which works best for you in your area. I did both last year as part of a deal I made with Trudi ;) and was very happy with the WS results. Just don't fall into the trap of comparing the seedlings - indoor ones to the WS - as that isn't a fair comparison. WS will be slower to start and to grow, smaller up front, but they won't get leggy like the inside ones and won't need near the daily care.

Your extension plant out dates sounds more realistic to me from a safety POV but if you are willing to cover and protect them you can always push it back a bit.

One advantage with the WS tomatoes is that they are already hardened off so no transplant shock and they can go into the ground sooner and safer than GH transplants.

But WS plants do tend to lag behind in size at first and that can scare some. But once the weather warms and all danger of frost is past they quickly catch up and will kick into production (all other factors being equal) a bit sooner than the GH ones do.

So try both - nothing to lose. ;)

Dave

I know I might sound like a broken record to some, because I keep saying this, but timing of planting is crucial in Texas. Even a week or two too late, and the harvest can be poor. And the transplants do need to be a decent size, at least 6" if planting early March, at least 8" if going to the second week of March or a little beyond.

Also, the recommended planting dates that the extension services provide are frequently too late for the home gardener, and also tend to be based on "heatsetting" and/or det types from their recommended lists, such as Merced, Viva Italia, the BHNs, cherry types, the solar series, etc. Even with those varieties, in a hot year, going by those dates might not get folks a good harvest. For Liz's area, 3/1 - 3/15 is a good target, of course if she is willing to occasionally protect. Here, I start planting out around 3/7, and I consider that conservative for my area (half zone diff from the metroplex). I start with vars I have the most backups for first, of course. Usually I finish up around 3/9 to 3/15. A few last minute things may go in as late as the third week of March. I do like to stagger my planting a bit, to mitigate the risk and also to get a sort of staggered effect from the harvest.

Liz, if you think you can get a transplant to those minimum sizes by March 1-15 with winter sowing, go for it. Since you are starting Jan 1, it is possible. I do agree with Dave that there is a bit of catch up effect with smaller transplants, but in general, I'd recommend having good sized ones ready to go in the ground when it is time for you to plant.

One potential problem I see is we can sometimes get a fair amount of very warm false spring weather in Feb (even early Feb) that could cook the seedlings if your winter sowing containers aren't properly vented or vent-able. Just keep that in mind when making/designing your ws containers.

I was wondering the same thing in CO!! We can have mild weather and then cold spells that ruin young starts. I am going to first year WS as well but I think, for me, ws tomatoes will result in poor production. In 2008, I started tomatoes/peppers indoors in Feb and planted, using Wall O Waters, in mid April. I think mid April was late as some of my tomato plants didn't fruit until Sept. Some peppers never ripened. In 2007, I planted, with WOWs, in mid March (began in Feb) and had tomatoes by early June and an abundance of peppers. Also in 2007, the tomatoes didn't seem as affected by the heat, and continued to bear fruit through it. There's no way for me to duplicate my 2007 conditions, for tomatoes and peppers, with ws. But what a GREAT way to start other plants!! Perhaps in Texas, as CO, ws plants need protection from sun and wind.

Thanks everyone. Right now I'm leaning towards starting most indoors and WSowing a few. This will depend partly on how many seeds we have of each variety. Come to think of it, I'll probably have enough of most varieties to try them both ways.

Logically it seems to me that the WS plants would be healthier.

Liz,

When you WS your seeds, because you're in a climate that can have a very hot spring day arrive rapdily, I suggest that you choose sowing containers that can hold a depth of at least five inches soil, this is a good amount for holding moisture--anything shallower can dry out faster than you may want to water. Vents are of course mandated. Uncapped gallon milkjugs would be excellent choices because they have a funnel shaped top to rapidly wick away sun warmed air and they can hold several inches of soil.

WS is always a learning event, especially the first couple of years because you become very attuned to your environment and you tweak as you progress to make things work your own way. It's natural to feel hesistant with trying something new so I certainly support beginners doing some seeds via WS and some other ways. There will never be any greater teacher than your own eyes; at the end of next season you know what new things you like and what other things you still want to do, and from there you begin to meld your own style ;-)

T

Thanks Trudi. I definitely don't want to have to water very often! I was recently given a few dozen milk jugs, and a lot of soda bottles so I'm fairly well set.

I'm thinking that for the tomatoes I'll use toilet paper tubes in a container. I might pot up to 1/2 gallon milk cartons at some point - thinking these would be easy to move in for occasional freezes. It's been a few years since I've started tomatoes, but I usually start for a few friends as well as for my own use.

Personally, I would allow any seedlings that sprout before their time an opportunity to croak or survive in temps down to about 3O degrees, but that's me and may not be you ;-) After several seasons of doing WSing toms I've gotten very callous and no longer have strong emotional feelings about the survival of all my seedlings; I do not need or miss the few seedlings which perish before transplant. I'm OK with letting the weakest fail on their own.

I do have great empathy for all who put their heart and soul into their seedlings, and all who want deeply to care for and nurture their seedlings. There are some things that can be done to prevent possible frost damage.

If you know you're going to have a frost warning then covering the flats with a heavy blanket or and old comforter is very helpful, but it must be removed the next day or the seedlings can bake under it because as the sun rises and the air warms the blanket can become a heat trap for the flats it covers.

If you need to shelter the containers move them into an unheated garage or similarly any room that is very cold but not freezing--a car trunk works nice too if only because you don't have to bend down far for the moving and lifting when you return them after the storm. If you live in an area that has frequent severe weather you can use milk jugs for containers and keep six nested together in milk crates; when you need to move them it's a breeze because the crates have handles.

I agree with Suze that an early, strong start is crucial here in Texas. I'm trying black plastic to warm the soil for a quicker start, as well as a cold frame and now maybe Wintersowing.
I like the milk jug idea. Thanks.

Pete

I guess the early start is one time my container tomatoes will have an advantage! I certainly won't put the reflective insulation on the containers in the early spring.

Even this far south we like to use pig fence to make our own tomato cages. The weather comes and goes here so we have to use heavy plastic to wrap the cage at those times both for the cooler weather and the spring winds. They are easy to make, just cut them 3 times longer than you want the ring to be and wrap the loose ends around the opposite end. Cut the bottom wire off so you can just push them into the ground without any other support needed. They are so much stronger than any store bought and provide a whole lot more support as the plants grow.

I'm just a newbee gardner and my plan for 2009 may work for you. Thanks to all here who have provided needed information.

Prep garden area now
Use "EarlÂs Hole Method of Growing Tomatoes"

Start seedlings in January and also winter soe

move seedlings from house to garage Feb 15 and begin the hardening off process a few hours outdoors in protected area from wind when temps are above 40
Late Feb 09 warm the soil for early March planting
place black trash bags double thickness on prep area.

Plant in early March using large black trash bag around wire cage with water jugs. If cold front comes place xmas lights around plants to provide additional warmth and pull bags up the cage 2ft